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xHeavy

Minotaur Guns do not work well post 10.0

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Played the Mino today as experiment in ranked.

Engaged several enemy types at 10 to 12 km which is pretty good for Minotaur shooting.

Everything else being equal the rounds from the minos are constantly short. When you raise the barrels to loft it to the correct distance to land hits they go over. Allowing for shell travel time (Floaty) and angles etc all things being true should land a pile of hits like the Minotaur can do when on target. I did however have a BB Conqueror snuggle to spoon with me inside my little pile of smoke. Unfortunately the stupid BB driver got himself TK'ed by me by the time I managed to stop the shooting with him right rubbing against my railings. Half of him with sticking out of the smoke with two thunderers and a zao engaging us.

I am convinced as of today that the 10.0 broke the Minotaur in some way. It  will not hit anything in open water, near islands or whatever. ESPECIALLY if its not taking a target lock on the enemy ship.

The ship only had a spare 3 pt captian I think one pt for the maintaince of main weapons and the other two spent on something else but the add ons and skills is not the issue. The guns are.

Edited by xHeavy

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28 minutes ago, xHeavy said:

The ship only had a spare 3 pt captian

this won't have helped.

this is a tier 10 bote, you should try for a 15 pt captain minimum before using the ship in pvp ranked.

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You know my coffee kind of sucked this morning I think the10.0 captain rework screwed up my Krups coffee machine . 

 

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5 minutes ago, hateboat said:

this won't have helped.

this is a tier 10 bote, you should try for a 15 pt captain minimum before using the ship in pvp ranked.

I am also thinking that as well. I'll have to add points to a captian. OR transfer the 19 from Thunderer. The BB is ok, but has become rather generic after I have discovered some problems with her as well.

For example. Using the type two dynamic sights if you had a standard enemy DD at 40 knots broadside to you on a course oppsoite youres relative, And not zig zagging you can place the number 5 vertical line right ahead of the enemy DD bridge. Some of your rounds will hit as normal. Today they do not in any ship. Until you get so close to the DD that its going to hit. No ifs buts and maybes.

A new thought came to me also thinking over the problem and could be very well the source of the rounds not hitting the enemy desipite falling ALL AROUND the enemy ship with dispersion sometimes smaller than the ship's lenth and for errors in OVER and Shorts that probably will be about a good 60 feet to either side of the enemy ship itself.

The problem is Dispersion. The enemy could be using ALL and ANY modules, skills or add ons that Support Dispersion, Boosts superson and most certainly ADD MORE dispersion against me the attacker shooting shells at the warship over there. I have added nothing but modules that support VERY TIGHT groupings of out going shells which sometimes can help you decide if you want all 8 rounds into the quaret deck below

If the new reality is that we cannot hit much of anything with cruisers then there is no point in having them. Or this game at all. Maybe....

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19 minutes ago, xHeavy said:

OR transfer the 19 from Thunderer. The BB is ok, but has become rather generic after I have discovered some problems with her as well.

You literally have no reason to keep a captain trained for her. Place your commander on the minotaur and you can send him in your Thunderer with the Bb skill set.

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1 hour ago, xHeavy said:

Played the Mino today as experiment in ranked.

First problem here, Ranked is not the place to experiment with ships. Your team appreciates you actually knowing what you're doing.

1 hour ago, xHeavy said:

ESPECIALLY if its not taking a target lock on the enemy ship.

This would be your problem, the lock on gives you a 50% dispersion buff, as well as a lot of help putting the reticle on target. Not locking on make it VERY hard to hit something. Other than that, I dunno. I feel confident if there was a problem with the patch people would be reporting it by now. My guess is you need some practice with Mino, she has arcing shells which can make it tricky to hit things. I suggest practice in Randoms rather than Ranked with little experience and a green captain.

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2 hours ago, xHeavy said:

The ship only had a spare 3 pt captian I think one pt for the maintaince of main weapons and the other two spent on something else but the add ons and skills is not the issue. The guns are.

The guns are fine. I tested them tonight and mine work.

If I read you right and you're really taking a Mino with a 3-point captain into Ranked as a try-out, that says a lot about you. 

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Ya know there is no solving a problem with gunnery on a ship that I have played quite a bit of when a poster intends on throwing salt thinking I am some how crappy. I did not fall off the turnip truck this morning with the Mino. Its one ships i have played well with it and gunnery is fine until patch 10.0

There is nothing to learn in the mino in ranked or any place. Except that the gunnery is really bad as of patch 10.0 There may be a another defect in the game when it sometimes does not take a lock. When that happens you read off the distance in Km... say 10.45 in the small distance counter box to the side of the aiming device itself in the center. Slow down the DPI on the mouse and raise or lower the Distance at which your rounds will land until its very close to 10.45 allowing for the opening or closing motion of the enemy ship that is at any angle in traveling across the aim point.

I even fired at a small house on a island. The rounds fell all around the damn thing instead of hitting them. Its sloppy dispersion. Thats fixed in my mind.

Mode of battle has no meaning in the question I am raising about the rounds arrival on target ship or anything. The idea that a poster wants to call me a newbie or nooblet or somehow very new tot he game learning how to play in ranked is ludicrious. Any examination of my stats will specifically reveal that I am a unicorn in Coop but crapevery other game mode. I play the game because I enjoy it from time to time. I do not play it with competition or somehow am a god that is GUD as some like to say versus other human in certain game modes not involving bots.

 

/End rant

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I changed commanders, Added the skills to increase the tight grouping of shells (Outnumbered skill on line 4 points etc) Retained same instantly to full potential with a bunch of ECXP that I really do not have to spend.

Took her into a battle. Landed three rounds total, two ricochet and one pen out of 60 fired. Targets were a easy 8 to 10Km range. I was summarily sunk by CV planes and several BB's so we all know the mino, neptune etc is squishy anyway in that dept. I was providing close air defense and smoke support to two DD's that were with me all the way to the one base and we changed course to attack the enemy in the other.

My final and absolute thought. Cruisers do not work in 10.0 update version. Period. I see cruisers all the time like Stalingrad, Petro, Moskva making a pain of themselves in game routinely. However some ships that worked before like the mino do not now. Thats the end of this thread and question as to what happened with the mino guns in 10.0 implying that most Cruisers have been severely nerfed and need specific addition of skills to get back to normal shell fall dispersion at the target itself.

Edited by xHeavy

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10 hours ago, xHeavy said:

Ya know there is no solving a problem with gunnery on a ship that I have played quite a bit of when a poster intends on throwing salt thinking I am some how crappy. I did not fall off the turnip truck this morning with the Mino. Its one ships i have played well with it and gunnery is fine until patch 10.0

There is nothing to learn in the mino in ranked or any place. Except that the gunnery is really bad as of patch 10.0 There may be a another defect in the game when it sometimes does not take a lock. When that happens you read off the distance in Km... say 10.45 in the small distance counter box to the side of the aiming device itself in the center. Slow down the DPI on the mouse and raise or lower the Distance at which your rounds will land until its very close to 10.45 allowing for the opening or closing motion of the enemy ship that is at any angle in traveling across the aim point.

I even fired at a small house on a island. The rounds fell all around the damn thing instead of hitting them. Its sloppy dispersion. Thats fixed in my mind.

Mode of battle has no meaning in the question I am raising about the rounds arrival on target ship or anything. The idea that a poster wants to call me a newbie or nooblet or somehow very new tot he game learning how to play in ranked is ludicrious. Any examination of my stats will specifically reveal that I am a unicorn in Coop but crapevery other game mode. I play the game because I enjoy it from time to time. I do not play it with competition or somehow am a god that is GUD as some like to say versus other human in certain game modes not involving bots.

 

/End rant

You are comparing your experience in Coop to PVP.  There is no correlation whatsoever and you are seeing the results.  Even worse, you are doing it in Ranked which has fewer players so your lack of skill in the PVP environment is magnified.  You really have no clue what you are doing outside of Coop.

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11 hours ago, xHeavy said:

I even fired at a small house on a island. The rounds fell all around the damn thing instead of hitting them. Its sloppy dispersion.

It's going to be sloppy when firing at shore because the guns won't lock onto the scenery. That ALWAYS worsens the dispersion. 

I'm no longer entirely sure you're telling us the truth. 

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Odd, I was testing some Captain builds with my Minotaur yesterday, guns and aiming were working fine (at long, medium and short ranges), granted I didn't do a whole lot of testing  (just a couple of matches) so perhaps more research is required. 

Thanks for the heads up @xHeavy I'm going to do some testing on this. 

Edited by WaywardVariable

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One thing I have been noticing with my Pan EU DDs, as fast as these torps are, I am seeing my torps (using the systems firing line indicator) consistantly not being able to hit BBs in reverse.  BBs are out speeding the indicator or something.  Might just be a fluke, but I have been becoming more and more frustrated at watching 80+ kn torps missing a reversing BB  on a complete flank shot. ( missing as the ship reversing is going way faster than indicated so torps are missing over the bow.

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15 minutes ago, Shadowrigger1 said:

One thing I have been noticing with my Pan EU DDs, as fast as these torps are, I am seeing my torps (using the systems firing line indicator) consistantly not being able to hit BBs in reverse.  BBs are out speeding the indicator or something.  Might just be a fluke, but I have been becoming more and more frustrated at watching 80+ kn torps missing a reversing BB  on a complete flank shot. ( missing as the ship reversing is going way faster than indicated so torps are missing over the bow.

Could it be related to one of the new torp related skills? have you tried it with and without those skills active ? Sounds like maybe you found a bug with the torp aiming indicator, maybe report it on the bug reports forum? 

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8 minutes ago, WaywardVariable said:

Could it be related to one of the new torp related skills? have you tried it with and without those skills active ? Sounds like maybe you found a bug with the torp aiming indicator, maybe report it on the bug reports forum? 

I haven't yet,  I have only noticed anecdotal evidence,    I might try and do it without the skills but to be honest, this game is a hot mess and I don't feel motivated enough to even attempt to.  I'll give it a shot on the Olan, since I have a long way to go before that is elite status

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Data usually helps in these scenarios, and OP can shoot Mino around 30% accuracy in Randoms & about 4% accuracy in Ranked.  Naturally Coop is much higher as the bot movements are more predictable. 
While the above discrepancy is shocking, and what spurred his rant, the issue is more visible when zooming out and looking at OP’s most played ships and one thing becomes apparent: abysmal low main gun accuracy. Rates between 11% & 17% on ships that are usually 25% to 30% for average players. 17% main gun accuracy in cruisers (Prinz Eugen) that average 35% in most hands...

@xHeavy:

  1. You mentioned “locking on” - do you use the zoom feature when doing this (shift key)?
  2. Do you use “X” to shift targets that are locked?
  3. Do you vary your shots on maneuvering targets, shooting where they might be, or full salvo where they are?

Please do not take this as condescending, I’m only trying to help, but the “accuracy issue with Mino” is not the issue; it is a symptom of the real issue magnified. Fixing that issue will deliver more fun and satisfaction from your WoWS experience.

Edited by SuperComm4

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