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Yesman1337

CV Secondary's (Is it worth it)

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In ranked Ive noticed everyone yells for the CV's help yet no one seems to pay attention to what is actually going on with said CV. Obviously this is only really relevant for the German CV's but is it worth putting points into the secondary batteries for them. It seems to be happening ever more often that a DD goes unspotted past half the team and chases me down all whilst Im spamming my F5 key for help. (Yet none ever comes, I even had one guy ask why I was not helping him finish a low BB or spot the enemy while in mid scramble for my life spamming it. he obviously did not ask it in a very nice way but Im not going to repeat what he said) Anyways back on topic, is it worth to put some point (aka 4) for the enhanced secondary skill. The MvR seems to have quite a number of them and the GZ is obviously decent. (I dont know about any of the other carriers) Is it worth it now though with the removal of a lot of secondary skills from the carrier options.

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To many points that can go for skills that are useful all game.

Could see it in a competitive formate or just mucking around.

 

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1 minute ago, jags_domain said:

To many points that can go for skills that are useful all game.

Could see it in a competitive formate or just mucking around.

 

Im talking about ranked so it is a semi competitive format. 

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3 minutes ago, Yesman1337 said:

Im talking about ranked so it is a semi competitive format. 

just my experience  It was Mass and NC pushing up.  So yes when there gone tou could be very useful with a GZ.  

Problem is the respect.  Right now its fine but moving forward it will cost 500 gold or a lot of cap fxp.

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13 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

just my experience  It was Mass and NC pushing up.  So yes when there gone tou could be very useful with a GZ.  

Problem is the respect.  Right now its fine but moving forward it will cost 500 gold or a lot of cap fxp.

What about the MvR is it any good.

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Just now, Yesman1337 said:

What about the MvR is it any good.

Dont know.  I dont even have upgraded planes yet on the T8.

What skills are you taking?

I am really liking the faster torp aim.  I am getting a lot more torps on target.

Top Tier does not take anti flak, he goes with faster arming, more bomb firers, and sight stabilization.

A fun thing to try is site stab and faster arming.  You can turn faster and get your torps hit.

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Not worth it anymore. Before I loved putting manual secondary on MvR. But now, no. Detectability of ship is too high, guns aren't as accurate, and too many other skills that impact the game more frequently. 

Really, MvR is not a good ship for ranked, midway is better. Why? Because every got scared by MvR and FDR, they started taking bourgogne and destroyers. Midway is best vs DDs.

 

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For the MVR, if you want to build for secondaries, here is a possible 9.86 km secondary build while still giving emphasis on your planes:

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSA110&modules=11111&upgrades=121312&commander=PCW001&skills=1876232&consumables=11&pos=0

You need to sacrifice the slot 3 upgrade and the four point commander skill for secondaries at minimum (so 10 pt captain min) to have that 9+ km range, and  using the slot 3 upgrade for something else gives you 8.22 km range with the 4 pt skill 

 

I would rather take the enchanted aircraft armor skill than the secondary skill.

 

Edited by Boomer625

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7 minutes ago, Boomer625 said:

For the MVR, if you want to build for secondaries, here is a possible 9.86 km secondary build while still giving emphasis on your planes:

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSA110&modules=11111&upgrades=121312&commander=PCW001&skills=1876232&consumables=11&pos=0

You need to sacrifice the slot 3 upgrade and the four point commander skill for secondaries at minimum (so 10 pt captain min) to have that 9+ km range, and  using the slot 3 upgrade for something else gives you 8.22 km range with the 4 pt skill 

 

I would rather take the enchanted aircraft armor skill than the secondary skill.

 

Is it any good? Hows the accuracy on it, will it actually work at deterring a DD.

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6 minutes ago, Yesman1337 said:

Is it any good? Hows the accuracy on it, will it actually work at deterring a DD.

Due to the rework, accuracy on all secondaries have been nerfed, so they are not really accurate anymore, but the mod 3 upgrade and the 4 pt commander skill reduce the dispersion by 20% and 30% respectively, and it helps a lot as it reduced the dispersion from a max of 257m to 200m

 

Also in a Battle of Jutland mindset, you can take the 2 pt secondary armament expert to reduce the reload of the secondaries by 10%, going with the mindset of more shells in the air, more hits. 

 

Lets say you have a accuracy of 10%. So in 10 shells fired during x amount of time, you hit one. Now you increase the reload significantly, pumping out 100 shells in the same amount of time. Now you have 10 hits, or 10 times more chances of damage to the DD

 

Edited by Boomer625

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10 minutes ago, Boomer625 said:

Due to the rework, accuracy on all secondaries have been nerfed, so they are not really accurate anymore, but the mod 3 upgrade and the 4 pt commander skill reduce the dispersion by 20% and 30% respectively, and it helps a lot as it reduced the dispersion from a max of 257m to 200m

 

Also in a Battle of Jutland mindset, you can take the 2 pt secondary armament expert to reduce the reload of the secondaries by 10%, going with the mindset of more shells in the air, more hits. 

 

Lets say you have a accuracy of 10%. So in 10 shells fired during x amount of time, you hit one. Now you increase the reload significantly, pumping out 100 shells in the same amount of time. Now you have 10 hits, or 10 times more chances of damage to the DD

 

Theoretically if you take Hidden Menace and the slot 5 stealth upgrade the MvR's secondary range is the same as it's concealment. I kind of want to try it but I hear that Hidden Menace is terrible because your planes cant make it back ever due to how slow they are AA just kills them.

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No.

Prior to 10.0 I do the CV Build this way:

Equiptment supports servicing and turnaround of planes fast fast faster....

Skills are all about the planes and more planes and more planes. Bombers got the long haul high speed boost.

The ship did not get anything to speak of in the equiptment, Skills or whatever. Why? Its a platform to launch planes. IF the game got so bad that enemy ships are torping, raining rounds or strafing my carrier eff it. Its going to be sunk. A million hitpoints and the CarrierspaceYAMATO gee whiz mountain of fire power is not going to stop it. All you can do is rotate your sorties quickly and try to do what damage you can before you are sunk. I dont waste the 4 points on concealment. If you play the game long enough you will be found. Aha there you are. In A10 in the far corner.

Its not neglect. Just a realistic knowledge that carriers will be destroyed if you had a team that was crappy. So put everything on the table into just your planes, For the planes with the planes customizing the planes and round out the servicing for the planes. Planes planes and more planes. You can toss a coffee pot for captian bigly in the back of the bridge to keep him awake while waiting for more planes.

Edited by xHeavy

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(General response...)

So much for WG’s claims of promoting diversity in builds.

Sounds like they’ve actually reduced the potentially desirable options for carriers.

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Prior to the skills rebork, I could set-up my Graf Zeppelin with a full secondary battery build AND the core CV skills (costing 9 points, plus Advanced Firing Training = 13 skill points).
And the GZ would have the meme-build while the planes weren't suffering too badly from AA/ Flak.

Now, after the skills rebork, there aren't enough skill points, because the AA got stronger and/or the plane's capacity to withstand AA/Flak has been nerfed.
CV players must invest in the 4-point skill "Enhanced Aircraft Armor" to give their squadrons a fighting chance.
It now requires 17 skill points to achieve a full secondary battery build with GZ while maintaining necessary aerial capabilities for all the times when the GZ needs to be an Aircraft Carrier instead of a meme-'bote.

Edited to add:
On top of everything, the August Von Parseval had her maximum secondary battery range nerfed from 10+ km to about 9 km.

Spoiler


image_2021-01-27_201329.thumb.png.991a9e0ec4e2ff6363d355e5dcc57fb9.png

image_2021-01-27_201430.thumb.png.108caac87bb112e10f3807d6e6350bdc.png

 

 

Edited by Wolfswetpaws

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Even before the accuracy nerf, secondaries weren’t much deterrent on tech tree carriers. They won’t reliably finish nearly dead DDs, and they can’t win a DPS race vs healthy DDs. Even with range/RoF skills. 
 

The loss of accuracy and concealment only makes that math worse.

The main thing they’re good at now is melting down opposing CVs, which only happens once in a blue moon.

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The one good thing about the rework of secondaries skills is that they won't simply REFUSE TO FIRE if you haven't assigned them to a target. For players who have to have their attention very firmly elsewhere at a critical moment, knowing they will always go off against a spotted target is a good thing. GZ won't be a meme any more, but she will still be a threat to a low-health DD that's spotted inside her gun range.

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