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Summon3r

Consensus on 2ndaries?

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Is there a general consensus on what ship or ships are the best for playing full secondary builds? 

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6 minutes ago, Summon3r said:

Is there a general consensus on what ship or ships are the best for playing full secondary builds? 

None but Gneisenau, and that only because the 6 smoothbores of their main battery kinda force to have another source of damage.

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Hmm full secondary I would say Germans only and even then I would really only look at tier 6-9. For GK I would only do a partial meaning leave of the 4 point accuracy skill but for sure take the 4 point Main gun reload when in secondary range. 

For the American premium BB Line the Hybrid build of the GK should work really well. You are looking at the secondary not as a damage source but rather as a main gun reload buff. 

Hybrid on the French BB's should also work well. 

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9 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

None but Gneisenau, and that only because the 6 smoothbores of their main battery kinda force to have another source of damage.

I second that assessment on account that there is no secondary choice . 

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Arkansas B & Mikasa ( I assume still can) ,  can own at their tier.   

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1 minute ago, iRA6E said:

Arkansas B & Mikasa ( I assume still can) ,  can own at their tier.   

:Smile_hiding: of course how did i not realize that

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5 minutes ago, paradat said:

Hmm full secondary I would say Germans only and even then I would really only look at tier 6-9. For GK I would only do a partial meaning leave of the 4 point accuracy skill but for sure take the 4 point Main gun reload when in secondary range. 

For the American premium BB Line the Hybrid build of the GK should work really well. You are looking at the secondary not as a damage source but rather as a main gun reload buff. 

Hybrid on the French BB's should also work well. 

wait what, theres a skill that improves reload of main battery when in secondary range? i must have missed that or read it wrong.

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3 minutes ago, paradat said:

Hmm full secondary I would say Germans only and even then I would really only look at tier 6-9. For GK I would only do a partial meaning leave of the 4 point accuracy skill but for sure take the 4 point Main gun reload when in secondary range. 

For the American premium BB Line the Hybrid build of the GK should work really well. You are looking at the secondary not as a damage source but rather as a main gun reload buff. 

Hybrid on the French BB's should also work well. 

Coop player.

I have stayed full secondary builds on the KM BBs and the USN Premium BBs.  I like the CQC for the main battery reload also.  The GK seems to have about a 28% hit rate and I have had numerous battles in the 50-60k secondary damage area.  Ohio has hit for a higher percent (about 35% overall), but it's damage seems way down.  The Georgia has had a few monster games like the old days.  I am guessing either a very abnormally good streak or more secondaries than the Ohio.  Mass is a little low as well.

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3 minutes ago, Summon3r said:

:Smile_hiding: of course how did i not realize that

Well Arkansas B is not really an available ship for all.. though there is a lot of them in players hands.  Mikasa on the other hand is in Premium shop presently and probably is the best secondary brawler in the game w/o a secondary build.. with it... hilarious.   

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11 minutes ago, Summon3r said:

wait what, theres a skill that improves reload of main battery when in secondary range? i must have missed that or read it wrong.

Sorry I do not have the names down yet. It is the third one over from the left. Right next to secondary accuracy. So full build would be fire chance, range increase, accuracy increase and the reload buff then take either fire prevention or the extra heal.

The Hybrid would be. Any tier 1, range increase, reload buff, fire prevention and the extra heal or one of them and concealment. So you are tanky with serious DPM increase when brawling.

So the idea is you are looking at secondary batts for the DPM increase on your main guns. You will still get some damage from secondary but that is not the goal. 

As others have mentioned oddly the biggest change would be for Gneisneau manily because it has had the most dramatic range increase. So tier 7 for sure full secondary build.... maybe tier 8 and 9 but not tier 10. 

I will likely do full build for 6 thru 9 but only because it is fun not because it is optimal.  The premium American BB's are going to be really interesting because the main guns are so good already. 

Add adrenalin rush into the mix if you have a high skill commander and the brawling reload time gets pritty sick. Stack the module and some of these BB's are going to be crazy in brawls.

For the French add in the reload booster and well.... going to be some funny vids showing up on youtube.

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Balanced or hybrid will work fine on any secondary ship BB that has secondaries that reach out to a decent 10km. This is your standard. Less is meh, more is great. 

The reload buff is best in close quarters. auto fire for sure. manual is iffy because if you have a poor attention span a DD can still sneak up on you and give you a sore bum. 

GK is fine in hybrid. 

I really don't recommend dead eye because if you didn't hit from that far in the first place, then you probably won't with the skill anyway. It is really not that efficient because it can be easily broken by a spotter. And you would want your high tier BB to have super heavy AP and get in there and do heavy alpha at mid to close anyway. 

The more weapons that fire from your ship, the more efficient you are in battle. 

Sitting back makes your secondaries useless. You are taking low percentage shots since incoming fire skill means a slight pop to throttle and turn in or out sharp will make you miss anyway. 

When you sail in and fire closer, even the most nimble of ships can't react fast enough as you walk your heavy AP all over them and they die a horrible twisted metal death complete with AC/DC's "Thunderstruck" playing in the background.

Closer means they can't dodge much at all and it really hurts when your shells hit. Think 61K deathblows that send their ancestors screaming "Argh, my balls!"

You can do that in a GK.

I once saw a GK Thunderstruck a Yoshino in a turn and it was 100% but went full deleted and the red player blamed lag. While I was not the player that shot him, the player that did, well, they fired a nice group into him that was quite impressive. It was 3/4's of GKs normal gun range without spotter. 

Careful attention to a turn and detail is what did the Yoshino in and of course he did turn open to the GK player. But was bow on when the GK player opened fire. It was a nice anticipation because the player saw the bow wake and waited for the bow to move, then they fired.

This is a skill. Many players don't know this because they are accustomed to flinging shells out from the far side. But observing ship movement is a very fundamental key to gunnery. 

So, OP, I hope this is at least helpful advice for you and will help you add more dimensions to your game play.

Good luck.

 

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14 minutes ago, kyesac said:

Coop player.

I have stayed full secondary builds on the KM BBs and the USN Premium BBs.  I like the CQC for the main battery reload also.  The GK seems to have about a 28% hit rate and I have had numerous battles in the 50-60k secondary damage area.  Ohio has hit for a higher percent (about 35% overall), but it's damage seems way down.  The Georgia has had a few monster games like the old days.  I am guessing either a very abnormally good streak or more secondaries than the Ohio.  Mass is a little low as well.

Ohio has 127mm 54s(longer barrel) and fire slower. Georgia has 127mm 38s and fire faster.  Georgia has an unusual placement that favors flanking attack where the angles are more generous. 

When considering a secondary build, look at the reload rate base in the gun stats tab. 

technically 127mm 54 is supposedly a longer range gun. It should reflect that in base stats without upgrades and buffs, but reload is a bit slower. 

You can still however enhance the reload in various ways. 

The 127mm 54 is also on Midway, FDR, the Haraekaze as an option, and Vermont. It might also be on PR, but I have to check on that myself. 

You can tell how successful a secondary layout is on a BB will be by the range, fire rate, and the spread out placement. The more spread out, the more better angles. 

Because close quarters requires a lot of angling and you can't always open up.

So if secondaries are more efficient at angle, then that is a nice ship.

The stats page tab under equipment and artillery is a great resource that will help.

I use it all the time before I add skills. 

Good luck

 

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51 minutes ago, Summon3r said:

Is there a general consensus on what ship or ships are the best for playing full secondary builds? 

My opinion is that it isn't really worth it, you have to give up too much survivability in order to be a "full" secondary build and the +35% accuracy buff just isn't worth the 4 points. The Close Quarters Expert (another 4 pt skill,) gives a +10% boost to main & secondary guns when in secondary range, so if you take range boosts for your secondaries that's a better option. Lastly, do NOT try to target DDs, it all you'll do is splash around them a lot - unless they're parked or beached... then have at em. With that said, the US have slightly better accuracy than the Germans, or anyone else.

Personally, I'm not playing any of my usual ships... only finishing the grind out on the FDG at this point. Normally the Mass & Pomm are my two faves, but when moving into secondary range, it's just too easy to get abused by all the increases to offensive firepower of every other captain choice and ship class. I really hope that WG addresses the way the skills are playing out in the game with a patch soon.  

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38 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

manual is iffy because if you have a poor attention span a DD can still sneak up on you and give you a sore bum. 

GK is fine in hybrid. 

Not any more even if you have manual and do not target your secondiers they will still open up you just don't get the 35% bump in accuracy you would get if targeted .  No?

Edited by clammboy

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Secondary build is a good build option...Keep in mind, it may be the other factors that may be lacking..

For example...

image.png.589e9700f0a535d54b828371291a9571.png

Bismark Secondaries are cool with a 10 pt commander... But her main guns are way under-performing.

 

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For me the only ship that can still be used with secondary guns in a remotely efective way is ODIN, With one of the best concealment values for a BB it can sneak on enemys and force them into a close range combat, The rest of the german BBs may have better secondary guns but they can be seen from the moon so most enemy ships will just turn around and stay away from your secondary guns range.

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8 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Not any more even if you have manual and do not target your secondiers they will still open up you just don't get the 35% bump in accuracy you would get if targeted .  No?

I did see that happen on the one Fuso I have that on. But either that is a bug or intended. If intended, then it is sort of useful in that you won't get ambushed from not paying attention, but still, selecting a target would be better if only the secondaries actually do serious damage at the 35% based on the caliber. 

I use this on Fuso because her casemate secondaries are hard hitting HE. 

AT high tier, the higher the caliber of secondaries with 35% is best because you will do really good alpha. German BBs enjoy the 1/4 pen, so they have a slight advantage but it compensates for low fire rate. Whereas low caliber that fires at a higher rate , the 35% is more pronounced if range is a great factor. 

So, short range okay if high caliber. Long range best if low caliber. Make low and high fire as fast as possible and you should do okay. 

I guess manual would be great for that, but it is extremely dependent on you as a person and your multitasking skills in close quarters combat.

If you struggle with multitasking, then manual is not right for you. Leave it as auto only and focus on rapid fire, Adrenaline rush, etc. 

These skills are player style specific and each player has go to favorites. 

Start with those and work in the new ones to enhance.

At best, it makes it a better ship, at worst, it is meh, but WG will eventually fix it if you get riddled with torpedoes almost every outing. 

Good luck

 

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2 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

I did see that happen on the one Fuso I have that on. But either that is a bug or intended. If intended, then it is sort of useful in that you won't get ambushed from not paying attention, but still, selecting a target would be better if only the secondaries actually do serious damage at the 35% based on the caliber. 

I use this on Fuso because her casemate secondaries are hard hitting HE. 

AT high tier, the higher the caliber of secondaries with 35% is best because you will do really good alpha. German BBs enjoy the 1/4 pen, so they have a slight advantage but it compensates for low fire rate. Whereas low caliber that fires at a higher rate , the 35% is more pronounced if range is a great factor. 

So, short range okay if high caliber. Long range best if low caliber. Make low and high fire as fast as possible and you should do okay. 

I guess manual would be great for that, but it is extremely dependent on you as a person and your multitasking skills in close quarters combat.

If you struggle with multitasking, then manual is not right for you. Leave it as auto only and focus on rapid fire, Adrenaline rush, etc. 

These skills are player style specific and each player has go to favorites. 

Start with those and work in the new ones to enhance.

At best, it makes it a better ship, at worst, it is meh, but WG will eventually fix it if you get riddled with torpedoes almost every outing. 

Good luck

 

I will have to check I could be wrong but that was the way I understood it . 

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1 hour ago, Summon3r said:

wait what, theres a skill that improves reload of main battery when in secondary range? i must have missed that or read it wrong.

Yes there is.  10 percent off main reload when in second range pluse 10 percent sec accuracy buff.  If you take the sec cap skill its 35 percent off.

Combined its 45 percent.

Maybe WG thought sec were to powerful and need a nerfing.

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45 minutes ago, TheArc said:

My opinion is that it isn't really worth it, you have to give up too much survivability in order to be a "full" secondary build and the +35% accuracy buff just isn't worth the 4 points. The Close Quarters Expert (another 4 pt skill,) gives a +10% boost to main & secondary guns when in secondary range, so if you take range boosts for your secondaries that's a better option. Lastly, do NOT try to target DDs, it all you'll do is splash around them a lot - unless they're parked or beached... then have at em. With that said, the US have slightly better accuracy than the Germans, or anyone else.

Personally, I'm not playing any of my usual ships... only finishing the grind out on the FDG at this point. Normally the Mass & Pomm are my two faves, but when moving into secondary range, it's just too easy to get abused by all the increases to offensive firepower of every other captain choice and ship class. I really hope that WG addresses the way the skills are playing out in the game with a patch soon.  

Do you know if you target a ship both side fire now?  Or is it 35 percent for every sec gun?

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19 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Do you know if you target a ship both side fire now?  Or is it 35 percent for every sec gun?

So The ship will fire on both sides regardless if you select a priority target or not. The plus 35 percent is on the target you select.

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Just now, paradat said:

So The ship will fire on both sides regardless if you select a priority target or not. 

It did before but if you got the targeting you would click a ship.

Just wondered if there was a change.

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Just now, jags_domain said:

It did before but if you got the targeting you would click a ship.

Just wondered if there was a change.

Yes there is a change. Before with manual fire the ship only fired of one side. Now it fires on both sides with accuracy buff only on one side.

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34 minutes ago, paradat said:

Yes there is a change. Before with manual fire the ship only fired of one side. Now it fires on both sides with accuracy buff only on one side.

Thanks.

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As of the latest patch, none.

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