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Danyir_Amore

Deadeye is not as OP as everyone is claiming

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It really isn't and the BB camper build is really easy to negate by getting close to them. get within 12km and they effectively lose 8SP.  It doesn't really change much either BBs have always been accurate enough to punish you for showing your broadside.  Sail in straight lines and you will get punished, don't pay attention to exposed flanks and you will get punished.  It's not really a complicated concept, frankly if you manage to get hit by a BB in a cruiser from 20+KM away you kinda deserve it.  BBs are even more protected at such ranges where even slight angling can shatter or  deflect a shell

 

Furthermore on a lot of maps Camping BBs tend to be a detriment to their team, when they fail to push up and support their own cruisers and DDs the cruisers and DDs get annihilated very easily.  This grants vision control to the opposing team, and they quickly assert map dominance and cap dominance.  Once key positions are seized cruisers are able to move into favorable positions and put their DPM to work.  There is much more to this game than just out shooting your opponents and getting big damage numbers.  I've found pushing to actually be easier now because reds simply give up the caps and retreat now.

I'm sure ill get flamed for going against the lemming train of opinion, but I'm having fun being a lot more aggressive now.

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I haven't used deadeye on any BBs in Co op. All of my BBs are secondary builds now. The bots are too aggressive for long distance warfare. The rework resulted in one basic build for all BBs in Co op with very few differences. I haven't tried many Operations this week but I suspect that it will be the same there.

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9 hours ago, Danyir_Amore said:

It really isn't and the BB camper build is really easy to negate by getting close to them. get within 12km and they effectively lose 8SP.  It doesn't really change much either BBs have always been accurate enough to punish you for showing your broadside.  Sail in straight lines and you will get punished, don't pay attention to exposed flanks and you will get punished.  It's not really a complicated concept, frankly if you manage to get hit by a BB in a cruiser from 20+KM away you kinda deserve it.  BBs are even more protected at such ranges where even slight angling can shatter or  deflect a shell

 

Furthermore on a lot of maps Camping BBs tend to be a detriment to their team, when they fail to push up and support their own cruisers and DDs the cruisers and DDs get annihilated very easily.  This grants vision control to the opposing team, and they quickly assert map dominance and cap dominance.  Once key positions are seized cruisers are able to move into favorable positions and put their DPM to work.  There is much more to this game than just out shooting your opponents and getting big damage numbers.  I've found pushing to actually be easier now because reds simply give up the caps and retreat now.

I'm sure ill get flamed for going against the lemming train of opinion, but I'm having fun being a lot more aggressive now.

I can see it being good w/a spotter plane at the start...but any aggressive push will negate it pretty easily...as long as the aggressive pusher knows how to angle good enough to not get quickly taken out on the way forward.

A coupe GKs 2ndary specced range (to buff the main battery reload) taking turns hydroing to dodge torps should do nicely.

Don't even need to attack the BBs (the closer you get the better the turtleback works)...just angle to them & concentrate on all the radar (& then other) cruisers 1st & use your hydro to help hunt down the DDs & let your DDs have a field day on the BBs.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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3 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I can see it being good w/a spotter plane at the start...but any aggressive push will negate it pretty easily...as long as the aggressive pusher knows how to angle good enough to not get quickly taken out on the way forward.

A coupe GKs 2ndary specced taking turns hydroing to dodge torps should do nicely.

Don't even need to attack the BBs (the closer you get the better the turtleback works)...just angle to them & concentrate on all the radar (& then other) cruisers 1st & use your hydro to help hunt down the DDs & let your DDs have a field day on the BBs.

unfortunately they did nerf secondaries pretty hard and they were really not that great to begin with.  Survival builds are a better choice for GK, especially since they have decent guns now with US dispersion pattern.  Though I can see using brawler and secondary range to increase MB reload being a thing the secondary accuracy skill is not worth it.

Edited by Danyir_Amore
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Unless in a 3 BB division, getting within 12km of the enemies in a BB guarantees getting focus fired by everyone and a quick sinking. 

Also what you describe is very reliant on tiers. Right now tiers VIII-X are filled to the brim with Thunderers which constantly spam HE, meaning you are guaranteed to be on fire often.

Last and most importantly, the accuracy with Deadeye while broken with certain ships is just one side of the issue. The other is that it promotes a very passive playstyle that's simply unfun to play against. 

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

edit

The other is that it promotes a very passive playstyle that's simply unfun to play against. 

 

The other is that it promotes a very passive playstyle... which sucks when those players are on your team.

 

:Smile_great:

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2 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

Also what you describe is very reliant on tiers. Right now tiers VIII-X are filled to the brim with Thunderers which constantly spam HE, meaning you are guaranteed to be on fire often.

Which is the main issue. On other ship you can angle to limit its effectiveness. On Thunderer, she just shot toyota sized HE shell.

 

just made DE work with AP only.

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3 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

Unless in a 3 BB division, getting within 12km of the enemies in a BB guarantees getting focus fired by everyone and a quick sinking. 

Also what you describe is very reliant on tiers. Right now tiers VIII-X are filled to the brim with Thunderers which constantly spam HE, meaning you are guaranteed to be on fire often.

Last and most importantly, the accuracy with Deadeye while broken with certain ships is just one side of the issue. The other is that it promotes a very passive playstyle that's simply unfun to play against. 

 

1 hour ago, Laser_Beam said:

 

The other is that it promotes a very passive playstyle... which sucks when those players are on your team.

 

:Smile_great:

 

To be fair though, passive has always been the name of the game. This just adds a slight bonus to it.

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1 hour ago, Skuggsja said:

 

 

To be fair though, passive has always been the name of the game. This just adds a slight bonus to it.

Yes this ^^^^^ is so true it was almost always everyone hanging back in tier 10 anyway scared to stick there big toe in the water it just got ramped up a bit . Thunderers are also all over the place because a lot of people got them since there leaving soon . It turned into the perfect storm because the rework came out at the same time the Thunderer was leaving so a lot more people had them . You watch people will figure out the counter play to this like they always do . The Thunderer population will calm down I hope when people get bored with that play style or the counter starts working . 

Edited by clammboy

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13 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Yes this ^^^^^ is so true it was almost always everyone hanging back in tier 10 anyway scared to stick there big toe in the water . It just got ramped up a bit . Thunderers are also all over the place because a lot of people got them since there leaving soon . It turned into the perfect storm because the rework came out at the same time the Thunderer was leaving so a lot more people had them . You watch people will figure out the counter play to this like they always do . The Thunderer population will calm down I hope when people get bored with that play style or the counter starts working . 

I completely agree. Thunderer being removed has inspired more people to get it. The fact that a buff to its playstyle appeared is spiraling the numbers out of control. That's what always happens though, some ship getting removed has it filling the queue.

What gets me is that Thunderer was always a good boat but no one bothered to pick it up or play it until now. The playerbase has to be told it's good so it's being removed (hence the popularity) to finally grab it? Just goes to show that at the end of the day the players just want their OP boats.

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28 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

What gets me is that Thunderer was always a good boat but no one bothered to pick it up or play it until now. The playerbase has to be told it's good so it's being removed (hence the popularity) to finally grab it? Just goes to show that at the end of the day the players just want their OP boats.

They will follow some CC in order to perform better. ''oh, Flambassrozouptsertor said Dead eye is OP? Gotta put it on my GK and stay in the back!''

Is dead eye strong? Yes, especially since it give you a big buff for no downside. Arguably, the +10% secondary reload +10% main battery reload is better as a buff, but it force you to put your ship in danger. Meanwhile, deadeyes encourage you to not move from your spawn, which players do. In time, it will have to be nerfed (hopefully before the next patch to not pay for the commander retraining but....) and the player base will realize that staying at range that way may sounds nice in term of damage, but do not make you win games.

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39 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

What gets me is that Thunderer was always a good boat but no one bothered to pick it up or play it until now. The playerbase has to be told it's good so it's being removed (hence the popularity) to finally grab it? Just goes to show that at the end of the day the players just want their OP boats.

I think that some people were turned off or worried by the 2 barrels per turret and only 8 guns in a tier 10 BB . I don't really know it's a great ship I have her I don't play her a lot because it's tier 10 . 

It's a little out on my league right now .  

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7 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

Unless in a 3 BB division, getting within 12km of the enemies in a BB guarantees getting focus fired by everyone and a quick sinking. 

No it doesn't, I'm not saying Yolo rush into the enemy spawn there is a process to this.  You can Isolate and destroy the enemy cruisers and DDs because camping BBs fail to support.  This is the important bit because the Cruisers actually still have the highest DPM and DDs have the alpha strike.  They also get destroyed far more quickly than BBs do.  Sure you will take some damage from pushing up but there will be a spot to pause and heal before carrying on the push, this is also vital as it allows your own cruisers to re deploy after gaining vision control.  The enemy camping BBs will then be basically helpless.  There is nothing a Thunderer or Conquerer hates more than being farmed by CL's.

7 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

Also what you describe is very reliant on tiers. Right now tiers VIII-X are filled to the brim with Thunderers which constantly spam HE, meaning you are guaranteed to be on fire often.

Yes you will take HE damage but it is not as bad as it seems because it can be repaired.  All you really have to do is time your rushes so that you make it to the next point of cover before taking too much damage and you can heal again.

7 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

Last and most importantly, the accuracy with Deadeye while broken with certain ships is just one side of the issue. The other is that it promotes a very passive playstyle that's simply unfun to play against. 

The passive playstyle of the enemy is an advantage.  Most maps have some form of cover and concealment that will allow you to advance while minimizing exposure.  The enemy's passivity will separate themselves allowing you to defeat them in detail.  This game is still more about positioning than it is about the individual ships.  Taking map control and vision control will allow you to annihilate any number of Thunderers and Conqs.  I don't know about you but I have tons of fun outplaying the enemy.

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9 hours ago, Danyir_Amore said:

unfortunately they did nerf secondaries pretty hard and they were really not that great to begin with.  Survival builds are a better choice for GK, especially since they have decent guns now with US dispersion pattern.  Though I can see using brawler and secondary range to increase MB reload being a thing the secondary accuracy skill is not worth it.

Yeah...edited that to clarify...that MB reload was what I was thinking about when I put that in...definitely wouldn't take the 35% thing...not trying to concentrate on selecting anything other than for a target for MBs.

I've always considered survival loads to be part of a 2ndary specced ship (FP & BOS anyway)...but I've always had the extra 4 points to spend because I've never used the 60% dispersion skill... didn't consider it worth the 4 points & liked my 2nds to be early warning when in binoc mode brawling side by side (bow in by bow in usually actually) w/other BBs.

Never used IFHE on BBs either...just AFT & BFT...& BFT was just because it added the AA bonus also so it's not even needed now...just add the upgrade that increases the 2ndary range also to increase the MB buff.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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the dazzle skill along with the other dd skills that can be mounted in conjunction with it are not " operating in the fair and balanced" scenario that wows has been pounding the table about.....in my opinion.... this is causing the " overly passive " play

the basis for my opinion is this skill mounted with the other skills or along with the equipment  given to dd set ups makes this a "stop shooting at me i dont like it " " and stop looking at me " i dont like that either" scenario....so now if your  in a bb and secondaries open fire they have to deal with something they arent going to hit at first ....add in the reload time of the 2nds for bbs....+++ 20% dispersion from enemy ships the speed boost and concealment that the dds get ..now dds can show themselves , launch  torps and disappear before a bbs 2nd can reload and fire ...

dds were hard enough to play against in open waters before this rework ...but fun to play against...now its almost impossible because you cant see them now ..unless they want to play.... 

the 20% dispersion from enemy ships should be removed from this dazzle skill at the very least..thats what the camo is for

   

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15 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

 to not get quickly taken out on the way forward.

 

Good luck with that

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10 hours ago, arch4random said:

the dazzle skill along with the other dd skills that can be mounted in conjunction with it are not " operating in the fair and balanced" scenario that wows has been pounding the table about.....in my opinion.... this is causing the " overly passive " play

the basis for my opinion is this skill mounted with the other skills or along with the equipment  given to dd set ups makes this a "stop shooting at me i dont like it " " and stop looking at me " i dont like that either" scenario....so now if your  in a bb and secondaries open fire they have to deal with something they arent going to hit at first ....add in the reload time of the 2nds for bbs....+++ 20% dispersion from enemy ships the speed boost and concealment that the dds get ..now dds can show themselves , launch  torps and disappear before a bbs 2nd can reload and fire ...

dds were hard enough to play against in open waters before this rework ...but fun to play against...now its almost impossible because you cant see them now ..unless they want to play.... 

the 20% dispersion from enemy ships should be removed from this dazzle skill at the very least..thats what the camo is for

   

Dazzle has 0 effect when perma-spotted by CVs

 

:Smile_sad:

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12 hours ago, Laser_Beam said:

Dazzle has 0 effect when perma-spotted by CVs

 

:Smile_sad:

20% dispersion is 20% dispersion...it doesn't matter what is spotting you or for how long...

or is there something in the description I'm forgetting that null & voids it if a CV is involved (on phone...can't look it up right now?

Edit: Please disregard 2nd paragraph... didn't realize who I quoted (just got up...not awake yet).

If I had realized who it was earlier I would have known it was obviously just another SOP "let's derail every thread w/a CV rant" reply...

Good morning Laser.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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11 hours ago, Laser_Beam said:

Dazzle has 0 effect when perma-spotted by CVs

 

:Smile_sad:

you only get perma spotted if you keep your AA on

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6 hours ago, Danyir_Amore said:

you only get perma spotted if you keep your AA on

 

If only this was true.

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6 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

20% dispersion is 20% dispersion...it doesn't matter what is spotting you or for how long... (wrong!)

or is there something in the description I'm forgetting that null & voids it if a CV is involved (on phone...can't look it up right now?

Edit: Please disregard 2nd paragraph... didn't realize who I quoted (just got up...not awake yet).

If I had realized who it was earlier I would have known it was obviously just another SOP "let's derail every thread w/a CV rant" reply...

Good morning Laser.

 

Morning 

I'm still amazed your name passed the profanity filter.  Grats on that.

 

PS - and yes spotting does matter as the skill is active for 15sec.

 

image.png.91dca80042518e351b3aac1332b8c411.png

4 point skill that is active for 15 sec maybe great for a dd that can stealth again.  Not all DD's get that chance.

 

PPS - Stating a fact is not a rant.

Edited by Laser_Beam

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6 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

20% dispersion is 20% dispersion...it doesn't matter what is spotting you or for how long...

The "how long" matters greatly. Once you are spotted for 15 seconds, you're 4 pt skill is worthless until you can go dark again. What is spotting you only matters in how easy it is to break that spotting. Smoke, getting outside concealment, ducking behind an island. The only one that affects plane spotting is smoke. Not everybody  has smoke and it can be on cooldown.

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Deadeye just promotes lazy BB players just sitting back  when a BB is a brawler and should be right in there 

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