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Versili

Follow option on CVs.

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Here's an idea ..I am in no way a cv main and I don't consider myself an expert in the matter either way.

WeeGee how about a follow option on the cvs. Click on a ship and have the cv follow .

Will work great in ops to a point . 

Anyway a follow option would be interesting.

Or give the captains their manual control back on those buggers . Jeeeze.

Auto pilot wreaks.

Imo of course.

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OMFG No.

 

CVs already have such an easy mode with consumables.  Now let's make it even easier.   

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Laser_Beam said:

OMFG No.

 

CVs already have such an easy mode with consumables.  Now let's make it even easier.   

 

 

 

Yes CV have easy consumables, but the autopilot sucks. Cannot navigate between islands, and sometimes randomly stops and starts backing up.

 

Edited by Boomer625

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Guys I'm not talking about ease of anything . I'm simply asking for a follow option to move the dang ship through the op/ battle instead ofyou having to click away on the map ...or as I said give the cv mains their manual control back ...it gets busy but he'll I'd like to have a controllable ship. And not a dumb bot autopiloting my ship.

That's all.

 

Edited by Versili
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On 1/25/2021 at 9:29 PM, Boomer625 said:

Yes CV have easy consumables, but the autopilot sucks. Cannot navigate between islands, and sometimes randomly stops and starts backing up.

 

Autopilot needs a lot of fixing - and not just for CVS.

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On 1/25/2021 at 10:33 PM, Versili said:

Guys I'm not talking about ease of anything . I'm simply asking for a follow option to move the dang ship through the op/ battle instead ofyou having to click away on the map ...or as I said give the cv mains their manual control back ...it gets busy but he'll I'd like to have a controllable ship. And not a dumb bot autopiloting my ship.

That's all.

Dude, you can manually control your ship just like anyone else. If you are not in a plane you just use WASD (or Q and E if you are so inclined) and can go ahead. The autopilot is for when you are in a plane and the controls switch over to control the planes. Obviously then the same controls can't be used because you are in a plane. Just recall the squadron and you have your controls back, simple.

I don't really see the issue here, unless I miss something?

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2 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

Dude, you can manually control your ship just like anyone else. If you are not in a plane you just use WASD (or Q and E if you are so inclined) and can go ahead. The autopilot is for when you are in a plane and the controls switch over to control the planes. Obviously then the same controls can't be used because you are in a plane. Just recall the squadron and you have your controls back, simple.

I don't really see the issue here, unless I miss something?

I'll try to find that control but all I've seen is click on the map to move unless I completely missed the memo. :Smile_amazed:

Hope were talking about cvs ....

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7 minutes ago, Versili said:

I'll try to find that control but all I've seen is click on the map to move unless I completely missed the memo. :Smile_amazed:

Hope were talking about cvs .... 

Wait, how do you control your other ships? Simply use the keyboard, it is the same controls as for planes (WASD). You have to be in control of the ship though and not the planes, however.

Try it, go in a training room with a CV, let the clock run down and don't press 1,2, or 3. Instead, press W a few times and then use the A and D key to control the rudder (Q and E if you don't want to keep buttons pressed). Once you are on a course you like, just go and fly your planes.

The autopilot is only for controlling the ship when you are busy flying planes and can't be bothered, it is not supposed to take away all of the work. I mean, imagine surface ship players only needed to focus on shooting and could ignore the ship controls....

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1 hour ago, shinytrashcan said:

Wait, how do you control your other ships? Simply use the keyboard, it is the same controls as for planes (WASD). You have to be in control of the ship though and not the planes, however.

Try it, go in a training room with a CV, let the clock run down and don't press 1,2, or 3. Instead, press W a few times and then use the A and D key to control the rudder (Q and E if you don't want to keep buttons pressed). Once you are on a course you like, just go and fly your planes.

The autopilot is only for controlling the ship when you are busy flying planes and can't be bothered, it is not supposed to take away all of the work. I mean, imagine surface ship players only needed to focus on shooting and could ignore the ship controls....

Bwhahaha I have never been able to control the ship itself maybe it's my setting .....again this shows how much I play cvs . Rofl lm@o....

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1 hour ago, shinytrashcan said:

Dude, you can manually control your ship just like anyone else. If you are not in a plane you just use WASD (or Q and E if you are so inclined) and can go ahead. The autopilot is for when you are in a plane and the controls switch over to control the planes. Obviously then the same controls can't be used because you are in a plane. Just recall the squadron and you have your controls back, simple.

I don't really see the issue here, unless I miss something?

Well lets see.. you just spent 2 minutes flying your planes over to the battlefield but then you need to make a course change in the CV. You recall, and lose the two minutes that you spent flying the planes to change course manually. Those two minutes are precious to CVs since they rely on damage over time

Edited by Boomer625

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1 hour ago, shinytrashcan said:

Wait, how do you control your other ships? Simply use the keyboard, it is the same controls as for planes (WASD). You have to be in control of the ship though and not the planes, however.

Try it, go in a training room with a CV, let the clock run down and don't press 1,2, or 3. Instead, press W a few times and then use the A and D key to control the rudder (Q and E if you don't want to keep buttons pressed). Once you are on a course you like, just go and fly your planes.

The autopilot is only for controlling the ship when you are busy flying planes and can't be bothered, it is not supposed to take away all of the work. I mean, imagine surface ship players only needed to focus on shooting and could ignore the ship controls....

At least surface ship players can shoot and turn at the same time.

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2 hours ago, Boomer625 said:

Well lets see.. you just spent 2 minutes flying your planes over to the battlefield but then you need to make a course change in the CV. You recall, and lose the two minutes that you spent flying the planes to change course manually. Those two minutes are precious to CVs since they rely on damage over time

True, a CV can't control the vessel while controlling planes. But if surface ships can't have manual AA control because deciding between two sets of guns to shoot with is a potential task overload for many people (the argument that often comes up when this is suggested to WG), then I don't see how or why they would add being able to directly control the carrier hull while flying the planes.

2 hours ago, Boomer625 said:

At least surface ship players can shoot and turn at the same time.

Yes, and surface players can't spot and shoot at a target for extended periods of time while also keeping their hull out of harms way. Guess some compromises have to be made.

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15 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

True, a CV can't control the vessel while controlling planes. But if surface ships can't have manual AA control because deciding between two sets of guns to shoot with is a potential task overload for many people (the argument that often comes up when this is suggested to WG), then I don't see how or why they would add being able to directly control the carrier hull while flying the planes.

Yes, and surface players can't spot and shoot at a target for extended periods of time while also keeping their hull out of harms way. Guess some compromises have to be made.

Ships with manual aa need to juggle between controlling aa and shooting the main guns, tow tanks that need to be juggled. CVs need to juggle between conducting strikes and controlling their ship. Ships automatically use aa auras to automatically shoot down planes in a dumbed down system of aa, so ships can fire their guns while shooting down planes, releasing the burden of the aa task. Therefore, in your own argument, CV should be released of their burden to have to control their ship, and have it done so reliably by having better autopilot.

 

Surface players can indeed spot and shoot at a target while out of harms way. It is called a cruiser behind a island next to a cap and popping radar, which has just as many counters as CV strikes, being “Just dont be caught out in the open” verses the CV counter of “Just dodge” 

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1 hour ago, Boomer625 said:

Ships with manual aa need to juggle between controlling aa and shooting the main guns, tow tanks that need to be juggled. CVs need to juggle between conducting strikes and controlling their ship. Ships automatically use aa auras to automatically shoot down planes in a dumbed down system of aa, so ships can fire their guns while shooting down planes, releasing the burden of the aa task. Therefore, in your own argument, CV should be released of their burden to have to control their ship, and have it done so reliably by having better autopilot.

 

Surface players can indeed spot and shoot at a target while out of harms way. It is called a cruiser behind a island next to a cap and popping radar, which has just as many counters as CV strikes, being “Just dont be caught out in the open” verses the CV counter of “Just dodge” 

Yes, but such as the autopilot is very reliable and in a good place, so is AA. If you want a perfect autopilot, can we have perfect AA gunners please? I mean, please come on, if your argument for a better autopilot and the ability to control planes and vessel simultaneously is that ships have automatic AA, then the quality and purpose of said automatic AA should be excellent. Which it isn't.

Regarding your example with the radar cruiser behind an island, radaring and firing over the island: Yes, that is one of the very few instances where a surface ship can do that. And it can do that at most 4 times a game (radar charges are limited) and in only a very select few cases as the island needs to be just right for this. I am okay with that. However, CV plane vs ship interaction is designed around the planes spotting for themselves while dealing damage, without the ship player being able to (a) actively fight back against the planes themselves (no manual AA) and (b) without risk to the CV players ability to play the game as the CV hull (what keeps the player in game) being parked somewhere else.

So you have a more or less select group of ships (radar cruisers) that need specific circumstances (smoke or particular islands that allow for this), which can do the spot and shoot without danger for a limited amount of time (radar duration) for a limited amount of instances per game (radar charges), and you have  type of ship that is design around this type of interaction plane vs ship.

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8 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

Yes, but such as the autopilot is very reliable and in a good place, so is AA. If you want a perfect autopilot, can we have perfect AA gunners please? I mean, please come on, if your argument for a better autopilot and the ability to control planes and vessel simultaneously is that ships have automatic AA, then the quality and purpose of said automatic AA should be excellent. Which it isn't.

Regarding your example with the radar cruiser behind an island, radaring and firing over the island: Yes, that is one of the very few instances where a surface ship can do that. And it can do that at most 4 times a game (radar charges are limited) and in only a very select few cases as the island needs to be just right for this. I am okay with that. However, CV plane vs ship interaction is designed around the planes spotting for themselves while dealing damage, without the ship player being able to (a) actively fight back against the planes themselves (no manual AA) and (b) without risk to the CV players ability to play the game as the CV hull (what keeps the player in game) being parked somewhere else.

So you have a more or less select group of ships (radar cruisers) that need specific circumstances (smoke or particular islands that allow for this), which can do the spot and shoot without danger for a limited amount of time (radar duration) for a limited amount of instances per game (radar charges), and you have  type of ship that is design around this type of interaction plane vs ship.

The purpose of aa gunners was never to shred squadrons of planes, but to deter them from making accurate strike runs on ships through shaking the plane, limiting pilot visibility through flak clouds, and inducing fears into plane crews. In the game, aa forces CV planes to dodge flak shells, increasing the target’s reaction time and hindering the CV player’s ability to get a good angle to strike, reducing the CV’s damage output. AA also is in a war of attrition with the CV, as every time it takes away two-three planes that can only be replaced in 60-70 seconds, and so over time the CV will have less planes to work with.

 

The Cv player does indeed have risk in playing the game, as each plane loss is a very significant loss to its ability to put out decent squadrons and dpm. I have had teammate CVs and myself be unable to launch the nesssary 2-4 planes needed to complete a strike (given that you lose 2-3 planes to per strike) completely due to having lost more planes than those replenished. Yes the Cv player is still in game via a undestroyed hull, but cannot contribute to the game anymore, unless its a German CV with a survivability and secondary build. 

 

Aa on ships is also mismatched, in that some destroyers such as Halland has more aa potential than USN BBs and cruisers, who IRL were built to provide aa support and renowned for their ability to fend off plane attacks 

 

Edited by Boomer625

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14 hours ago, Boomer625 said:

The purpose of aa gunners was never to shred squadrons of planes, but to deter them from making accurate strike runs on ships through shaking the plane, limiting pilot visibility through flak clouds, and inducing fears into plane crews. In the game, aa forces CV planes to dodge flak shells, increasing the target’s reaction time and hindering the CV player’s ability to get a good angle to strike, reducing the CV’s damage output. AA also is in a war of attrition with the CV, as every time it takes away two-three planes that can only be replaced in 60-70 seconds, and so over time the CV will have less planes to work with. 

 

The Cv player does indeed have risk in playing the game, as each plane loss is a very significant loss to its ability to put out decent squadrons and dpm. I have had teammate CVs and myself be unable to launch the nesssary 2-4 planes needed to complete a strike (given that you lose 2-3 planes to per strike) completely due to having lost more planes than those replenished. Yes the Cv player is still in game via a undestroyed hull, but cannot contribute to the game anymore, unless its a German CV with a survivability and secondary build. 

Okay, I don't want to derail this thread completely, but I do want to reply in that I think we have quite a different understanding of how AA should work in a PvP game. I am not saying you are wrong in that AA in the game currently poses a risk to the CV player in terms of plane losses, and consequently the players ability to do damage and influence the match. There is definitely some attrition going on and CV players have to manage planes as a resource by keeping losses and regeneration in a balance.

However, I think this is one of the key issues why I and many others feel that the implementation of CVs in the game is flawed and unbalanced, in that CV players play an entirely different game primarily against AI game mechanics. As a surface ship player my interactions with other surface ship players are largely symmetric in that, simply said, we are shooting at each other and whoever has the better aim (or can make better use of the advantages/disadvantages their ship has etc.) wins. However, both players have very similar levels of skill-based input and it is thus a very direct PvP contest. By contrast, CV players engage primarily with an automated system and need to manage resources when doing so, with the result of their overall game being governed not by how good they are relative to the player of the target ships, but their resource management against the automated systems of those ships.

This difference, in my opinion, is key since ship players affect each other very directly (shooting, trading HP etc.), as does a CV player affect a ship player (doing damage, spotting etc.). However, ship players can affect CV players only very indirectly through the means of an automated system over which they have little to no control in game. Even the options to modify the system in port to enhance or alter its effectiveness are limited by the design of the automated system. I hope you can see that this disparity of direct versus indirect means of players influencing the game of other players can be the source of quite some levels of frustration.

14 hours ago, Boomer625 said:

Aa on ships is also mismatched, in that some destroyers such as Halland has more aa potential than USN BBs and cruisers, who IRL were built to provide aa support and renowned for their ability to fend off plane attacks 

Yeah, I never understood why a Halland has more AA firepower than most cruisers. Not only is it weird from a historic perspective, but it is also counterintuitive from a gameplay perspective as you would think that AA power would scale with the number of mounts etc. and not by some arbitrary rules.

That all I want to say at this point, and I don't expect you or anyone to necessarily agree with me on this. If you would like to discuss this further I think we should maybe do so in a dedicated thread or via direct messages etc. to not further derail this thread.

On the topic itself: Just improve the autopilot WG, please.

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