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murder_0ne

Commander rework nerfs ALL of the ships I like the most

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Let's see here... where to begin?

French BBs: Dunquerke, Strasbourg, Jean Bart: they all lose a reload booster and the Dunquerke and Strasbourg have such terrible concealment (even with CE) and such short ranged guns that they're constantly at a disadvantage due to Deadeye as enemy battleships can push in and negate your deadeye while still keeping theirs active.

UK DDs: the new unique DD skills don't complement UK DDs. Improved DPM while spotted sucks. Increased speed while nerfing gun DPM sucks. Dazzle sucks because if you're spotted then you're dead anyway. Other than that there isn't anything really new in the skill selection.

UK Cruisers: everyone else gets the option for increased HE/SAP **AND** there's the option for increased AP damage. Guess what? Neither of those two skills apply to the UK Cruiser ammo type. You would think that the AP would work but NOPE. Otherwise all the other skills are just business as usual or total garbage for the UK Cruisers.

German BBs: Enough has been said about secondaries. They're garbage at this point. What a huge disappointment.

German DDs: same deal with UK DDs. The new skills are really only good for Japanese and French/Russian DDs at this point. Which I really don't like to play.

US BBs Massachusetts and Georgia: no secondaries? What's the point?

I was really looking forward to this patch with the promise of multiple "choices" and multiple viable builds for each class of ship. What a huge pile of garbage it turned out to be.

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I dunno, I found the DD skills decent.

Swift in Silence might increase reload by 5%, but an eighth of a second is a small price to pay to be able to get places faster.

 

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24 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

Let's see here... where to begin?

French BBs: Dunquerke, Strasbourg, Jean Bart: they all lose a reload booster and the Dunquerke and Strasbourg have such terrible concealment (even with CE) and such short ranged guns that they're constantly at a disadvantage due to Deadeye as enemy battleships can push in and negate your deadeye while still keeping theirs active.

UK DDs: the new unique DD skills don't complement UK DDs. Improved DPM while spotted sucks. Increased speed while nerfing gun DPM sucks. Dazzle sucks because if you're spotted then you're dead anyway. Other than that there isn't anything really new in the skill selection.

UK Cruisers: everyone else gets the option for increased HE/SAP **AND** there's the option for increased AP damage. Guess what? Neither of those two skills apply to the UK Cruiser ammo type. You would think that the AP would work but NOPE. Otherwise all the other skills are just business as usual or total garbage for the UK Cruisers.

German BBs: Enough has been said about secondaries. They're garbage at this point. What a huge disappointment.

German DDs: same deal with UK DDs. The new skills are really only good for Japanese and French/Russian DDs at this point. Which I really don't like to play.

US BBs Massachusetts and Georgia: no secondaries? What's the point?

I was really looking forward to this patch with the promise of multiple "choices" and multiple viable builds for each class of ship. What a huge pile of garbage it turned out to be.

Battleship builds: Dead Eye or bust. Fun fun. "Build diversity", they said. "More choices", they said.

And you're right about secondaries accuracy, it's just sooo freakin' bad. Improved Secondary Battery Aiming skill needs a buff to -50% dispersion, NOW. And Dead Eye needs changing, without exception.

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4 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Battleship builds: Dead Eye or bust.

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it any less nonsense.

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Its a shame.

We finally get secondaries to work months ago and poof all gone. They shoot everywhere but the enemy target. Maybe land a round every 70 fired for lipservice to fun.

Its not fun anymore. And thats a shame.

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2 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it any less nonsense.

How exactly is it nonsense? From what I'm seeing, virtually everyone is using Dead Eye? It IS -10% dispersion for main battery, so I don't see why you wouldn't use it, honestly. It's really good. Is that wrong? I don't think so.

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4 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it any less nonsense.

What do you choose instead of dead eye and how is it less nonsense aka a better choice?

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Swift in Silence benefits British DDs (and most stealth-appreciating DDs) very much.

British DDs are unfortunately very slow by default, so any additional speed to getting in and out of dodge is always a benefit, especially given how sluggish they are in static maneuvers.

Unless you expect a fight to last more than 20 salvos you haven't lost very much practical DPM.

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3 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

How exactly is it nonsense? From what I'm seeing, virtually everyone is using Dead Eye? It IS -10% dispersion for main battery, so I don't see why you wouldn't use it, honestly. It's really good. Is that wrong? I don't think so.

Only if you have a 14 point captain, which a lot of people don't have in non-premiums.

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2 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Swift in Silence benefits British DDs (and most stealth-appreciating DDs) very much.

British DDs are unfortunately very slow by default, so any additional speed to getting in and out of dodge is always a benefit, especially given how sluggish they are in static maneuvers.

Unless you expect a fight to last more than 20 salvos you haven't lost very much practical DPM.

Fair point. I'll give it a try!

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6 minutes ago, Anonymous50 said:

Only if you have a 14 point captain, which a lot of people don't have in non-premiums.

Huh, well you're not wrong there, I WASN'T considering point costs for these kinds of builds in regards to actually looking at separate skill effectiveness (I was looking at Dead Eye as the skill itself, not the build required to get to it and make it optimal)...But still, I mean, to make it work, 14 points isn't necessarily terrible, right? Actually, you need like 17 points for the new secondaries build and it doesn't even work like it should, lols!

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16 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it any less nonsense.

At this point it doesn't really matter if it's nonsense or not, as long as someone believes in it the damage is done. There's a marked difference when it comes to how passively BBs play nowadays.

Besides on Thunderer,Slava, IJN, USN, MN afaik Deadeye Is pretty much worth it.

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2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

At this point it doesn't really matter if it's nonsense or not, as long as someone believes in it the damage is done. There's a marked difference when it comes to how passively BBs play nowadays.

Besides on Thunderer,Slava, IJN, USN, MN afaik Deadeye Is pretty much worth it.

For the hell of it I decided to put Deadeye on my Yamato with Admiral Yamamoto that already has Unique/Legendary Upgrade. I think it reduces dispersion to 215. Very OP for this BB beast. 

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9 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Huh, well you're not wrong there, I WASN'T considering point costs for these kinds of builds in regards to actually looking at separate skill effectiveness (I was looking at Dead Eye as the skill itself, not the build required to get to it and make it optimal)...But still, I mean, to make it work, 14 points isn't necessarily terrible, right? Actually, you need like 17 points for the new secondaries build and it doesn't even work like it should, lols!

Most people don't have either,  which is why the "you need x to make it work"  thoughts are kinda like discussing how much to pay  a butler.

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Just now, STINKWEED_ said:

For the hell of it I decided to put Deadeye on my Yamato with Admiral Yamamoto that already has Unique/Legendary Upgrade. I think it reduces dispersion to 215. Very OP for this BB beast. 

That literally is insane, I'm gonna try that out today too! And again, -10% dispersion IS -10% dispersion. It is NOT a small change, that's for certain.

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Just now, Anonymous50 said:

Most people don't have either,  which is why the "you need x to make it work"  thoughts are kinda like discussing how much to pay  a butler.

Although I mean, you COULD make the build work at 10 points, it just wouldn't be OPTIMAL, per se...You DO want that Concealment Expert for a more comfortable detection range to work with : )

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Just now, SaiIor_Moon said:

That literally is insane, I'm gonna try that out today too! And again, -10% dispersion IS -10% dispersion. It is NOT a small change, that's for certain.

I got the idea after watching this video of Flamu trying it out. Watch how the shells travel across the map and barely spread apart. It's hilarious. 
 

 

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53 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

UK Cruisers: everyone else gets the option for increased HE/SAP **AND** there's the option for increased AP damage. Guess what? Neither of those two skills apply to the UK Cruiser ammo type. You would think that the AP would work but NOPE. Otherwise all the other skills are just business as usual or total garbage for the UK Cruisers.

At the same time, AA skills are better, and brawler can give you 8% reload if a DD push into you.

 

28 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Battleship builds: Dead Eye or bust. Fun fun. "Build diversity", they said. "More choices", they said.

I do not use Dead Eyes on anything else than British. Sure you can get good damage with it, but you need to accept you inability to carry by pressuring and pushing. Full survivability build is in my opinion better.

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1 minute ago, STINKWEED_ said:

I got the idea after watching this video of Flamu trying it out. Watch how the shells travel across the map and barely spread apart. It's hilarious. 
 

 

Wow. Just...wow. That is some superb shell grouping, honestly...

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37 minutes ago, xHeavy said:

Its a shame.

We finally get secondaries to work months ago and poof all gone. They shoot everywhere but the enemy target. Maybe land a round every 70 fired for lipservice to fun.

Its not fun anymore. And thats a shame.

If a secondary gun cannot bear on the selected target it will fire on another that is in range and bearing. Before those guns wouldn't even fire.

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1 hour ago, murder_0ne said:

Let's see here... where to begin?

French BBs: Dunquerke, Strasbourg, Jean Bart: they all lose a reload booster and the Dunquerke and Strasbourg have such terrible concealment (even with CE) and such short ranged guns that they're constantly at a disadvantage due to Deadeye as enemy battleships can push in and negate your deadeye while still keeping theirs active.

UK DDs: the new unique DD skills don't complement UK DDs. Improved DPM while spotted sucks. Increased speed while nerfing gun DPM sucks. Dazzle sucks because if you're spotted then you're dead anyway. Other than that there isn't anything really new in the skill selection.

UK Cruisers: everyone else gets the option for increased HE/SAP **AND** there's the option for increased AP damage. Guess what? Neither of those two skills apply to the UK Cruiser ammo type. You would think that the AP would work but NOPE. Otherwise all the other skills are just business as usual or total garbage for the UK Cruisers.

German BBs: Enough has been said about secondaries. They're garbage at this point. What a huge disappointment.

German DDs: same deal with UK DDs. The new skills are really only good for Japanese and French/Russian DDs at this point. Which I really don't like to play.

US BBs Massachusetts and Georgia: no secondaries? What's the point?

I was really looking forward to this patch with the promise of multiple "choices" and multiple viable builds for each class of ship. What a huge pile of garbage it turned out to be.

For what its worth you actualy are trading 10% secondary accuracy and getting +10 rate of fire and then also getting -10% main battery reload from what I can see.

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2 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

French BBs: Dunquerke, Strasbourg, Jean Bart: they all lose a reload booster and the Dunquerke and Strasbourg have such terrible concealment (even with CE) and such short ranged guns that they're constantly at a disadvantage due to Deadeye as enemy battleships can push in and negate your deadeye while still keeping theirs active.

I agree that they have terrible concealment and it stinks for the JB to lose a reload booster.  But I have a hard time complaining about the gun range on the Dunkerque's and Strasbourg's main gun range.  Yes, it's not great, but it's usable.  The real disadvantage to it may come from the iffy synergy of Dead Eye and Concealment range.  I wish that the Dunkerque and Strasbourg had a better base concealment range.

 

2 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

UK DDs: the new unique DD skills don't complement UK DDs. Improved DPM while spotted sucks. Increased speed while nerfing gun DPM sucks. Dazzle sucks because if you're spotted then you're dead anyway. Other than that there isn't anything really new in the skill selection.

The Swift in Silence skill isn't really meant for RN DDs.  OTOH, Dazzle's not a bad option, because a 15 second, 20% dispersion debuff on enemies shooting at you should be a darned useful skill for a gunboat.  Or you could choose Radio Location.

 

2 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

UK Cruisers: everyone else gets the option for increased HE/SAP **AND** there's the option for increased AP damage. Guess what? Neither of those two skills apply to the UK Cruiser ammo type. You would think that the AP would work but NOPE. Otherwise all the other skills are just business as usual or total garbage for the UK Cruisers.

Yes, choosing both the increased HE/SAP and AP damage skills is pointless for RN cruisers.  But you can decide to pick HE/SAP for the CAs.  What to pick for the CLs, maybe pick  radio location or go for torp skills?

 

2 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

German DDs: same deal with UK DDs. The new skills are really only good for Japanese and French/Russian DDs at this point. Which I really don't like to play.

Depends on how you want to build your German DDs.  Are you going hardcore torp build, hardcore gunboat build, or a middle of the road hybrid build?  I think that there are more options here than you might think.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Battleship builds: Dead Eye or bust. Fun fun. "Build diversity", they said. "More choices", they said.

And you're right about secondaries accuracy, it's just sooo freakin' bad. Improved Secondary Battery Aiming skill needs a buff to -50% dispersion, NOW. And Dead Eye needs changing, without exception.

Here's my ARP Yamato set-up.
Notice the lack of "Dead-eye", and instead an attempt at a variation of a secondary-battery build.
Aiming Systems Modification 1 provides a 7% improvement in main-gun accuracy, and 5% improvements in secondary battery performance.
The ARP Main Battery Director System offers a 7% improvement in dispersion, with the trade-off of a 13% penalty to the turret rotation.
 

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image_2021-01-25_202118.thumb.png.ce662c22562cc52dc4c2d5312812b51c.png

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38 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Here's my ARP Yamato set-up.
Notice the lack of "Dead-eye", and instead an attempt at a variation of a secondary-battery build.
Aiming Systems Modification 1 provides a 7% improvement in main-gun accuracy, and 5% improvements in secondary battery performance.
The ARP Main Battery Director System offers a 7% improvement in dispersion, with the trade-off of a 13% penalty to the turret rotation.
 



image_2021-01-25_202118.thumb.png.ce662c22562cc52dc4c2d5312812b51c.png

I mean, you COULD definitely use the combo of the Dispersion Module and the Aiming Systems Mod 1 to compensate for the loss of Dead Eye, but unfortunately, since Yamato does NOT have "improved dispersion" secondaries, their performance is EXTREMELY lackluster.

Honestly, I'd recommend, if you're going with secondaries, to maximize their range, and use them as a "proc machine" for the Close Quarters Expert skill, instead. That should get you the -10% reload time buff...since you can't actually count on the secondaries to do meaningful damage, due to that massive loss of accuracy. And then you can switch out Improved Secondary Battery Aiming for maybe Fire Prevention or Concealment Expert or something.

I don't like having to not recommend a secondaries build, since secondaries builds are what I actually do, even on non-optimal battleships, but...I mean, I don't know, the secondaries accuracy is very bad right now. Even moreso for these battleships without "improved dispersion", like Yamato or Alsace.

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6 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

I mean, you COULD definitely use the combo of the Dispersion Module and the Aiming Systems Mod 1 to compensate for the loss of Dead Eye, but unfortunately, since Yamato does NOT have "improved dispersion" secondaries, their performance is EXTREMELY lackluster.

Honestly, I'd recommend, if you're going with secondaries, to maximize their range, and use them as a "proc machine" for the Close Quarters Expert skill, instead. That should get you the -10% reload time buff...since you can't actually count on the secondaries to do meaningful damage, due to that massive loss of accuracy. And then you can switch out Improved Secondary Battery Aiming for maybe Fire Prevention or Concealment Expert or something.

I don't like having to not recommend a secondaries build, since secondaries builds are what I actually do, even on non-optimal battleships, but...I mean, I don't know, the secondaries accuracy is very bad right now. Even moreso for these battleships without "improved dispersion", like Yamato or Alsace.

Yeah.
Skill points are expensive, and builds cost more now than they did before the 0.10.0 re-bork, in order to achieve similar performances.
As more skill points become available, I hope to re-visit this situation with your suggestions in mind.

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