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syp_twiz

so i checked the EU forums...

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And it's damn near a mirror image of the posts here... deadeye sucks, secondary nerf sucks, cruiser nerf sucks, WG sucks, Devs suck, captain skill rework sucks... i wonder if they will actually do anything about since they've managed to alienate and dissapoint the entire player base? 

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2 minutes ago, syp_twiz said:

And it's damn near a mirror image of the posts here... deadeye sucks, secondary nerf sucks, cruiser nerf sucks, WG sucks, Devs suck, captain skill rework sucks... i wonder if they will actually do anything about since they've managed to alienate and dissapoint the entire player base? 

You can bet that adjustments will be made but only after more gameplay data comes in. WG does not often respond to crowds with torches.... like at all. LOL one of the things I love about them.

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Just now, paradat said:

You can bet that adjustments will be made but only after more gameplay data comes in. WG does not often respond to crowds with torches.... like at all. LOL one of the things I love about them.

Rubicon

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The huge problem is when they don't respond after a clear cockup decision then seasoned players start to leave, some never to return. That hurts the game far worse than the patch itself.

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8 minutes ago, paradat said:

WG does not often respond to crowds with torches.... like at all. LOL one of the things I love about them.

I'd say they backed off on NTC, but the Regrind Bureau is 90% of that garbage snuck in one piece at a time. 

 

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14 minutes ago, paradat said:

You can bet that adjustments will be made but only after more gameplay data comes in. WG does not often respond to crowds with torches.... like at all. LOL one of the things I love about them.

Yep, the "adjustments" will be made after the free respec period ends and we have to pay to respec everything again.

 

We've been down this road before.

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6 minutes ago, syp_twiz said:

alienate and dissapoint the entire player base?

The entire player base that actively participates on the official forums and or reddit being the operative.

I mean there are plenty of online games I've played and still play I've never participated in the community.  I mean, I never posted on this forum until I had already been playing the game for likely 3ish years.

I mean, you could be right, the entire playerbase could be alienated and disappointed, but it should be realized the online communities are simply a microcosm of the player base as a whole.  We'll find out I guess.  If WG's pocket book gets affected, they absolutely will address this.  If it doesn't and WG does nothing? I guess well then we know the real stance of the "entire playerbase".

Almost all their moves clearly have a monetization incentive.  They are here to make money, if they actually lose money they will do something about it.  If they don't lose money over it, or in fact make money, they likely won't.

I can guarantee you there are people complaining on the forums, yet in game they bought a mountain of gold to dismiss captains and get their 19pters to 21.  If people really want to affect change, they have to actually stick to their guns and close their wallets.  I have a feeling there is a lot of saying one thing and doing another when it comes to the forums.

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2 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I'd say they backed off on NTC, but the Regrind Bureau is 90% of that garbage snuck in one piece at a time. 

 

IMO this skill rework was just another form of the NTC (w/o needing the NTC points) still being implemented. This is sort of what they had in mind then with the captain skills anyway. 

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14 minutes ago, HauptmannHope said:

The huge problem is when they don't respond after a clear cockup decision then seasoned players start to leave, some never to return. That hurts the game far worse than the patch itself.

Does it hurt their pocket book though? And ultimately that is what matters to WG.

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Just now, Taco_De_Moist said:

The entire player base that actively participates on the official forums and or reddit being the operative.

I mean there are plenty of online games I've played and still play I've never participated in the community.  I mean, I never posted on this forum until I had already been playing the game for likely 3ish years.

I mean, you could be right, the entire playerbase could be alienated and disappointed, but it should be realized the online communities are simply a microcosm of the player base as a whole.  We'll find out I guess.  If WG's pocket book gets affected, they absolutely will address this.  If it doesn't and WG does nothing? I guess well then we know the real stance of the "entire playerbase".

Almost all their moves clearly have a monetization incentive.  They are here to make money, if they actually lose money they will do something about it.  If they don't lose money over it, or in fact make money, they likely won't.

I can guarantee you there are people complaining on the forums, yet in game they bought a mountain of gold to dismiss captains and get their 19pters to 21.  If people really want to affect change, they have to actually stick to their guns and close their wallets.  I have a feeling there is a lot of saying one thing and doing another when it comes to the forums.

One of the things you have to consider is that your forum/reddit/facebook/twitch/etc community is supposed to be a representative slice of the playerbase as a whole.  The players that take the time to be engaged are generally the ones you want to pay attention to because.....shocker......they care about the game.  Ignoring it and saying "it's just a small portion of the players that are unhappy" is disingenuous.  Sure, we (forum posters, et al) are a small portion of the player base, but it's still a REPRESENTATIVE portion.  If 80% of us are pissed, there's a good chance the majority of the players are as well, just not as invested in logging in, searching, posting, discussing, etc.

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2 minutes ago, ArtfulNothing_ said:

IMO this skill rework was just another form of the NTC (w/o needing the NTC points) still being implemented. This is sort of what they had in mind then with the captain skills anyway. 

This has crossed my mind at one point. 

 

Have all the changes we've seen since the CC summit and the NTC release been just shadow NTC implementation?  They got mad we didn't want their bullcrap in that iteration and they just decided to implement it piecemeal in different ways?

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2 minutes ago, Taco_De_Moist said:

Does it hurt their pocket book though? And ultimately that is what matters to WG.

When the players who bring something to the game besides a warm body and a wallet are gone, when the players who actually give a damn beyond the newest 3-month dabble in yet another game are gone, then yes -- it will hurt the game, it will hurt the gameplay, and it will hurt their wallets. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Taco_De_Moist said:

Does it hurt their pocket book though? And ultimately that is what matters to WG.

I havent given them a penny since PR, and there are plenty of other players who feel the same way about this rebork

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27 minutes ago, paradat said:

You can bet that adjustments will be made but only after more gameplay data comes in. WG does not often respond to crowds with torches.... like at all. LOL one of the things I love about them.

MurmanskGate, Graf Zepplin debacle, threatening a CC with a copyright strike, etc... If I thought about it long enough, could probably think of a half dozen other instances when they backed down from an outraged player base.... You are not just wrong, I think you are lying. It is obvious that you "love them" but if that is your reason, you are only deluding yourself.. ..

Edited by Taylor3006
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30 minutes ago, T4rgetDown said:

Rubicon

Was Rubicon actually implemented, and then rolled back?

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5 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

MurmanskGate, Graf Zepplin debacle, threatening a CC with a copyright strike, etc... If I thought about it long enough, could probably think of a half dozen other instances when they backed down from an outraged player base....

Did any of those resolve themselves in less than a week after the uproar started?

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Hearing mention of the CC Summit brought this back to mind.  It's a slide from the video presented at the Summit.  I pulled it from Flambass' video linked below (55:34 mark) to cite the source.

Point is that it was clear back then that WG's goal for the game is grinding.  I guess grinding is engagement, engagement is spending, spending is sunk cost.  All new content to the game that is not straight up purchases will be a grind in one way or another.

 

image.png.e31fb8e570b79e4a12ea9b7dc3dd712c.png

  

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36 minutes ago, syp_twiz said:

And it's damn near a mirror image of the posts here... deadeye sucks, secondary nerf sucks, cruiser nerf sucks, WG sucks, Devs suck, captain skill rework sucks... i wonder if they will actually do anything about since they've managed to alienate and dissapoint the entire player base? 

Player pop is still increasing, so I doubt they plan to massively change their model or way they operate.

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18 minutes ago, Dr_Drunk_AKA said:

Yep, the "adjustments" will be made after the free respec period ends and we have to pay to respec everything again.

 

We've been down this road before.

SO true.................

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3 minutes ago, Kebobs22 said:

Player pop is still increasing, so I doubt they plan to massively change their model or way they operate.

Except thats using that metric is a mistake. The daily player counts are the important #s and the detailed breakdown of who's playing for how long is even more important. Wows is going the same way that wot went, slight upticks for holiday events but strong downward decline. Their bad decisions are pushing players out the door even if there are accounts on the book.

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8 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Was Rubicon actually implemented, and then rolled back?

I think the backlash was so great it didn't even see the light of day

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8 minutes ago, HauptmannHope said:

Except thats using that metric is a mistake. The daily player counts are the important #s and the detailed breakdown of who's playing for how long is even more important. Wows is going the same way that wot went, slight upticks for holiday events but strong downward decline. Their bad decisions are pushing players out the door even if there are accounts on the book.

The confounding factor this last year was Covid and the lockdowns.  No doubt WG saw an uptick in player growth last year, but an uptick from people being quarantined and an uptick from your game being GOOD are two VERY different metrics.

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7 minutes ago, T4rgetDown said:

I think the backlash was so great it didn't even see the light of day

That's your difference right there.

Rolling something back takes a lot more dissatisfaction than not taking it live.

We obviously didn't have the same level of uproar when it could have made a difference.

I mean, right off the bat, one major complaint was having to respec a crap load of captains. Rolling back the skill rework might actually make things worse in that respect, causing players to have to respec all their captains yet again. Sure, you could just roll back all the accounts a week, but then you'd have a ton of people complaining about wasted time and lost progress.

No, it's too late to roll it back. I'm sure we'll see some changes, but the rework itself is here to stay.

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1 minute ago, Dr_Drunk_AKA said:

The confounding factor this last year was Covid and the lockdowns.  No doubt WG saw an uptick in player growth last year, but an uptick from people being quarantined and an uptick from your game being GOOD are two VERY different metrics.

I don't know how much of a factor that is though.

I mean sure, you're going to see an uptick in gaming in general, but people aren't going to fill their extra gaming time with games they don't want to play. It's not like games are a finite resource, and some will get stuck with less desirable choices.

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