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Triela50

Smokeless DDs in Coop

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I have been trying my hardest to get these damn things to work in Coop but the second I fire my guns every bot on the red team targets and focuses me down and or chases me down.

Has anyone got these damn things to work?

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I have been trying island hopping with mixed success. If you can break sight this way for a short time, the bots will start shooting someone else. It buys you a little time before they swing their guns back.

 

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Which ones are you using? Normally bots tend to go for the nearest target and/or the one with the lowest HP. Instead of heading off alone might be better to follow a friendly DD at a bit of a distanceThey will be targeted  first and it's pretty likely you can use their smoke too.

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Use land to block fire while you focus down the first dd. Then use your torps for a close range ambush. Rinse and repeat.

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Yes, and in fact Kleber/Mogador have quickly become my go-to ships for damage and kill missions.

They are not the typical sit in smoke and farm damage without impunity. You need to think ahead and position yourself correctly on the map. They also not for the faint of heart who dislike getting targeted by 3+ ships.

If you play Co-op long enough you tend to get a good idea where the bots are going to come from. Speed boost to an advantageous spot behind cover and wait to ambush. Don't be afraid to ditch the cap you spawn at all-together for one with better cover. Prioritize the DD and any fast firing cruisers before speeding up close to the battleships. If the cruiser has light armor I'll save my reload booster and pop multiple citadels into its sides. Regardless some maps and teams you are just dealt a bad hand. So go in with the mindset of "live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse."

Edited by Beleaf_
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16 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Use land to block fire while you focus down the first dd. Then use your torps for a close range ambush. Rinse and repeat.

This. Or just plain don’t shoot, and channel your inner Mutsuki.

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Depends on map and where I spawn on said map.  Ducking in and out of island cover helps, but if you south spawn Okinawa for example, hang back.  Let cruisers and battleships draw fire for a min or so, then start opening fire.  Stay behind the cruisers and battleships and keep your head on a swivel, because while this tends to work more often than not, it's not a guarantee they'll keep focusing on whatever it is they are firing at.  You'll want distance to help mitigate the incoming damage.  They will start to head towards you when you open fire while they are blasting other targets though, keep that in mind.  Even if I end up at the bottom of the score board, surviving the battle is more satisfying than placing top in a gun-boat DD.  Placing top is a bonus.:Smile_great:  On maps with lots of island cover, abmush, ambush, ambush.  Make sure you have an out since the ambush can fail and/or multiple targets are heading towards your hide-y spot.

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Non-Smoke Open Water DD Gunboating isn't worth it in Co-Op, IMO, because of several crucial reasons:

1.  You can get away with it in PVP because a lot of players will struggle to hit a fast, maneuvering, DD sized target at double digit range.  Not against the bots because they know how to lead.  Any bot ship out there, Cruiser, Destroyer, even a Battleship, will have the correct aim to hit your DD.  It gets much more dangerous when you're fighting later tier ships, especially Cruisers like Zao, Venezia, Hindenburg that have very low trajectory, high velocity shells, great range.  Notable mention for the Russian 152mm guns being very good in tagging DDs.

 

2.  With point 1 above, the trade you're making:  Losing HP, suffering broken modules from the hits you take compared to the actual damage you do... Is a poor trade and not in your favor.  The bots don't care if you got 5k HP worth of damage and a fire or two against their Cruiser or Battleship.  They can afford to take the damage, but your DD on the other hand is losing most of its HP, suffering broken / KO'd modules.  You don't have the HP to trade against ships with double, triple, quadruple the HP levels you do.

===

For my FR DDs in Co-Op, they are TORPEDO BOATS.  They have bad concealment, but they are super fast, have a weird little damage mitigation / saturation mechanic, and fast reloading, respectably hard hitting torpedoes.  The emphasis is on using islands as "cover" or a base to work around.  To set ambushes from or to go out, attack, and return to cover.

The real trick is the early part of a Co-Op match to help kill off the bot DD screen without suffering much damage, and prepare for a torpedo rush.  Take good note on RNCLs and ITA SAP Cruisers, those hurt DDs badly, and require a lot of caution if they are around.

 

Smokeless DDs in Co-Op operate on a trade system.  Everything you do will cost you HP.  So you have to figure out an attack to mitigate the costs of HP loss while you try to get as much damage as you can.

Guns don't get you the high damage.

Torpedoes will.  Torpedoes and their very high alpha is the ace up the sleeve DDs have in this mode of play.  You are not going to be scoring 80k, 90k damage games on a regular basis as a Non-Smoke Gunboat DD with most of that damage done being by your guns.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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6 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

The real trick is the early part of a Co-Op match to help kill off the bot DD screen without suffering much damage, and prepare for a torpedo rush.  Take good note on RNCLs and ITA SAP Cruisers, those hurt DDs badly, and require a lot of caution if they are around.

 

Even better when they notice you and sail towards you before you break LOS.  If they lose sight of you, they will start to aim at something else, and are sailing towards you, increasing your closing speed when you come around the other side of that rock.

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I try to hide behind an island and wait for my allies to draw aggro and deal with the enemy DDS. When the enemy heavies are close, usually sprint and yolo whatever red is closer. Later with less ships on sight is far safer to engage with guns.

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Don't be the first green spotted, especially if a DD.  Get someone else to be that guy.  Seriously.

 

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I started with the French destroyers and you have to accept damage. I would charge in with speed boost, spot the red BB's and as soon as you spot your first red cruiser start your turn. Halfway through the red destroyer will spot you and open up, you can then shoot him back. Hopefully one of your cruisers will have already been spotted and the enemy fleet won't focus fire you.

At this point you have to decide whether to continue engaging the destroyer, trusting your heavier guns to sink him (with the shootfast button at higher tiers) and absorb the return damage, or to run away, shooting and twisting as you go. If the entire enemy fleet is shooting at you this is the option. Then turn around when you reach the green battleships. It's a high-risk, low reward strategy but very exciting.

You get all your torpedo damage by jousting with enemy battleships. If you shoot torps at further than 2 km the enemy fleet will usually dodge them so charging the battleships and unleashing at point blank is the only way. Don't shoot on the way in with speed boost and they'll ignore you most of the way. I usually don't joust cruisers, they do too much damage. French DD's will sink any battle ship with a full volley of torps. The Euro destroyers won't, especially Visby and Vasteras.

Obviously this is all modified by circumstance.

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All good advice. Smoke has a huge advantage in co-op because when you are invisible it's like a cloaking device to the bots.

21 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Smokeless DDs in Co-Op operate on a trade system.  Everything you do will cost you HP

Excellent point, this is why I think with this skill rework a good first 3 point captain skill for something like a French DD is adrenaline rush.

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3 hours ago, Swervenkill said:

The Euro destroyers won't, especially Visby and Vasteras.

For me, getting Visby and Vasteras to work required going back into Randoms. The point at which I found Euro DDs being acceptable in co-op was with Oland, at Tier 8. Getting the upgraded torps adds nearly 50% to the raw damage potential and makes them sufficiently potent to blow up cruisers and whack damaged battleships, while the rate of fire of the guns has increased to the point where your guns actually accomplish something meaningful. 

Enjoying Oland in co-op was the point at which getting Smaland became worthwhile, because I got better guns, more and better torpedoes, better speed boost and radar, for no increase in the worst that Matchmaker could throw at me. 

French DD in co-op is high-risk and potentially very high reward...

...but sometimes you just get your aft sent back to port by God-tier bots and that's all there is to it.

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You have 2 choices.

1/ Hide and sneak behind land masses then ambush them.

2/ Sail around like your hair is on fire shooting and torping like a madman

I preferred #2 games are shorter and can be more fun :cap_haloween:

 

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Usually in a huge bright firebally blaze of glory.  French ones are easy to use with island ambushes/reload booster but the EU line has a lot less options due to the poor gun layout and low torp alpha so they are much easier to grind in randoms.  From the first look at the upcoming german dd line they also don't look great for coop as the bots are usually chasing you in the dd making it hard to get long effective AP usage.

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