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Killing the Cruiser Game

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Between the special protections for DD's, the destructive capabilities of CV's, the improved accuracy of BB's, it's pretty clear that WG is deliberately setting out to end the cruiser game.  With ANY map I have played, there is NO place that is safe.  If you don't want cruisers in the game, WG, take them off the carousel.  Don't try to be coy about it.

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Hard disagree.  Yes, it's harder to play cruisers now in the same way that we could pre-patch, but a well-played cruiser was very strong before -- and they're still strong now.  They're just a little weaker because they have to work a bit harder to do the same things they used to.  A cruiser can't annihilate a newly spotted DD as efficiently as it used to, and it's going to take more damage at range unless dodging like crazy due to deadeye BBs.  CVs will always CV you, so I don't think that dynamic has changed much.  But I think on average cruisers are easier to deal damage to now, so in most situations you'll have to play them a bit more passively. 

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2 minutes ago, Ceesa said:

Hard disagree.  Yes, it's harder to play cruisers now in the same way that we could pre-patch, but a well-played cruiser was very strong before -- and they're still strong now.  They're just a little weaker because they have to work a bit harder to do the same things they used to.  A cruiser can't annihilate a newly spotted DD as efficiently as it used to, and it's going to take more damage at range unless dodging like crazy due to deadeye BBs.  CVs will always CV you, so I don't think that dynamic has changed much.  But I think on average cruisers are easier to deal damage to now, so in most situations you'll have to play them a bit more passively. 

You say "Hard disagree," but then you agree with everything the OP is saying. Cruisers need help.

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How about instead of all the torpedo buff skills they do one that reduces the time for you to go dark after shooting or the 15 second dispersion skill the DD's get.  I spent all weekend in USA cruisers trying to do the Halsey campaign and just got deleted by BB's anytime I was spotted.  Then the last straw was getting focused by a Kaga while in a Cleveland and getting torped out of the game.  I shot down 24 of his planes but still...   The only USA cruiser that was worth a try was the Alaska.

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Some cruisers got screwed more than others, it’s quite plain.  WG found a way to nerf certain super heavy and light cruisers.

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8 minutes ago, gatorken said:

The only USA cruiser that was worth a try was the Alaska.

They removed the fire prevention skill from cruisers, but Alaska will burn just as long as BB still.  

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36 minutes ago, Ceesa said:

Hard disagree.  Yes, it's harder to play cruisers now in the same way that we could pre-patch, but a well-played cruiser was very strong before -- and they're still strong now.  They're just a little weaker because they have to work a bit harder to do the same things they used to.  A cruiser can't annihilate a newly spotted DD as efficiently as it used to, and it's going to take more damage at range unless dodging like crazy due to deadeye BBs.  CVs will always CV you, so I don't think that dynamic has changed much.  But I think on average cruisers are easier to deal damage to now, so in most situations you'll have to play them a bit more passively. 

You realize that for your hard disagreeing... you argue that they are indeed harder or as hard on every point you make.

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28 minutes ago, Ceesa said:

 But I think on average cruisers are easier to deal damage to now, so in most situations you'll have to play them a bit more passively. 

And why not? CVs are passive, BBs have turned passive, might as well have cruisers be more passive too. Heck, they might as well increase DD concealment by 2-3km, then everybody can play passively.....

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Cruisers need at least one additional vertical row of skills including equivalents of BFT, AFT, a secondary enhancement, and Fire Prevention. 

Edited by Pugilistic
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3 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

And why not? CVs are passive, BBs have turned passive, might as well have cruisers be more passive too. Heck, they might as well increase DD concealment by 2-3km, then everybody can play passively.....

Hard disagree and by that I mean I soft agree.

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45 minutes ago, Ceesa said:

 you'll have to play them a bit more passively. 

How much more frikkin passive can this game get?

Wait, don't answer that.

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The rework has created an odd dichotomy where a select few cruisers can massively benefit from lighthouse builds (the DPM output of a full negative concealment Hindenburg or Henri build is ludicrous), but many other cruisers are suffering massively as the they lose core survivability skills, lack the gun range to even shoot the sniping BBs, and/or don't really benefit from a lot of the new cruiser skills.  The increased accuracy of BBs doesn't help either.

I've been having a blast in the Hindenburg, but I can't even imagine playing some of the more range challenged Tier 8 cruisers on an up tier.  

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26 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

Cruisers need at least one additional vertical row of skills including equivalents of BFT, AFT, a secondary enhancement, and Fire Prevention. 

How about just delete the skill out of the matrix called "Send me Home to Moma" (WG calls it Heavy HE and SAP Shells). Put in place something useful. Send Me Home to Moma increases my Moskva detection range to > 18 km. My gun range is 19.1 km.

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24 minutes ago, yashma said:

The rework has created an odd dichotomy where a select few cruisers can massively benefit from lighthouse builds (the DPM output of a full negative concealment Hindenburg or Henri build is ludicrous), but many other cruisers are suffering massively as the they lose core survivability skills, lack the gun range to even shoot the sniping BBs, and/or don't really benefit from a lot of the new cruiser skills.  The increased accuracy of BBs doesn't help either.

I've been having a blast in the Hindenburg, but I can't even imagine playing some of the more range challenged Tier 8 cruisers on an up tier.  

Watch Wargaming rush to nerf Hindenberg and Henri instead of admitting they screwed up. 

 

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Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

Watch Wargaming rush to nerf Hindenberg and Henri instead of admitting they screwed up. 

 

Nooooooooo ..... I just got the Roon!     Hindenberg is my only hope

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7 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Watch Wargaming rush to nerf Hindenberg and Henri instead of admitting they screwed up. 

 

My Henri has all the consumable buffs (3 in the skill tree) so the new skill matrix works well for her. Speed boost, reload mains, fighter, damage party, repair all enhanced.

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1 hour ago, Whiskey_Rebel said:

You say "Hard disagree," but then you agree with everything the OP is saying. Cruisers need help.

 

1 hour ago, Pura__Vida said:

You realize that for your hard disagreeing... you argue that they are indeed harder or as hard on every point you make.

The OP stated "WG is deliberately setting out to end the cruiser game" which isn't true. Cruiser play is still possible, maybe harder but still viable and necessary. 

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7 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

 

The OP stated "WG is deliberately setting out to end the cruiser game" which isn't true. Cruiser play is still possible, maybe harder but still viable and necessary. 

I wasn't responding to the OP, but to someone else's on his point. I also wasn't/won't wast my time on someone like you who clearly contributes nothing and can't follow simple conversations on a one page thread.

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21 minutes ago, SeaCat_ said:

Nooooooooo ..... I just got the Roon!     Hindenberg is my only hope

You will find the Hindy a bit of a Bismarck that had one too many drinks. Its not a BAD ship but not feared either.

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50 minutes ago, yashma said:

The rework has created an odd dichotomy where a select few cruisers can massively benefit from lighthouse builds (the DPM output of a full negative concealment Hindenburg or Henri build is ludicrous), but many other cruisers are suffering massively as the they lose core survivability skills, lack the gun range to even shoot the sniping BBs, and/or don't really benefit from a lot of the new cruiser skills.  The increased accuracy of BBs doesn't help either.

I've been having a blast in the Hindenburg, but I can't even imagine playing some of the more range challenged Tier 8 cruisers on an up tier.  


Is this build effective in game with CVs? I mean, Hindenburg already suffers from low range AA, with increased detectability, it should be easier for the enemy CV to keep you spotted by deploying fighters that are out of reach. And with the current snipping BB meta, getting spotted for extended period of time is generally not a good idea.

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5 minutes ago, Pura__Vida said:

I wasn't responding to the OP, but to someone else's on his point. I also wasn't/won't wast my time on someone like you who clearly contributes nothing and can't follow simple conversations on a one page thread.

Since you need everything spelled and predigested to be able to understand, I was backing up @Ceesa´s post as he was addressing the OP.  One thing is cruiser play being a bit harder, another different is "WG is deliberately setting out to end the cruiser game" which is blatantly untrue and the statement I disagree. 

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9 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Since you need everything spelled and predigested to be able to understand, I was backing up @Ceesa´s post as he was addressing the OP.  One thing is cruiser play being a bit harder, another different is "WG is deliberately setting out to end the cruiser game" which is blatantly untrue and the statement I disagree. 

I don't care what you say or think. I mistakenly unblocked you, I am fixing that again.

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1 hour ago, yashma said:

The rework has created an odd dichotomy where a select few cruisers can massively benefit from lighthouse builds (the DPM output of a full negative concealment Hindenburg or Henri build is ludicrous), but many other cruisers are suffering massively as the they lose core survivability skills, lack the gun range to even shoot the sniping BBs, and/or don't really benefit from a lot of the new cruiser skills.  The increased accuracy of BBs doesn't help either.

I've been having a blast in the Hindenburg, but I can't even imagine playing some of the more range challenged Tier 8 cruisers on an up tier.  

"lighthouse" builds might be useful to farm damage, but imo they are one trick ponies and lack the flexibility of roles distinctive of cruisers. Are you finding success with them playing solo?

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3 minutes ago, Pura__Vida said:

I don't care what you say or think. I mistakenly unblocked you, I am fixing that again.

:cap_popcorn:... I'll take that as an achievement

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9 hours ago, Ceesa said:

Hard disagree.  Yes, it's harder to play cruisers now in the same way that we could pre-patch, but a well-played cruiser was very strong before -- and they're still strong now.  They're just a little weaker because they have to work a bit harder to do the same things they used to.  A cruiser can't annihilate a newly spotted DD as efficiently as it used to, and it's going to take more damage at range unless dodging like crazy due to deadeye BBs.  CVs will always CV you, so I don't think that dynamic has changed much.  But I think on average cruisers are easier to deal damage to now, so in most situations you'll have to play them a bit more passively. 

So you agree cruisers are weaker now........which I think you are correct on.  The average damage for cruisers will go down imo.  So what does your "hard disagree" mean??

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