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Skuggsja

Reworked Captain Skills For Cruisers and Battleships, Reworked

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So I've had some thoughts on the rework of captain skills. Unlike some, I hardly think it's killing the game by any means. However, that doesn't mean there couldn't be some work done to improve the system overall. These are just my opinions and I figured I would throw them here to see if anyone felt the same.

First, CRUISERS. For the most part, I think the cruiser skills are relatively decent. Nothing spectacular but nothing too bad either. However, the amount of torpedo skills seems excessive in consideration of the amount of truly useable torpedoes on cruisers in-game. Don't get me wrong, there is a situation where everyone has used any torpedo at some point and it saved the day. I'm talking about in general though, how often do you get to use your Russian Cruiser or German Cruiser torpedoes, and so with success? I feel the most torpedo-oriented cruisers are the Italians and the Japanese and to a limited extent the British light cruisers. If I'm using my 4km Russian torpedoes or my 6km German torpedoes on my cruisers its usually a bad situation and I don't need to reload them faster, they don't need to travel faster, and the damage amount probably doesn't need to be boosted anyway.

Currently, there are 6 points you can invest in torpedoes, but a lot of cruisers have limited torpedo capability or none, and this takes up a bit of space in the skill tree that might have better use. I propose combining these skills into a Torpedo Expert skill and/or combining these skills and offer something like Extended Torpedo Range with a debuff to detection or speed of the torpedoes. With the additional slot freed up, I would propose a point be used to introduce and enhance Fighter Patrol Craft skills
 

Torpedo Expert: 4 Points
- Combines Swift Fish, Enhanced Torpedo Explosive Charge, and Torpedo Reload
-10% Torpedo Tube Reload Speed
+5 Knots to Torpedo Speed
+10% Torpedo Damage (Reduced from 15%)

This skill would be for the most hardcore torpedo oriented cruisers, and their players, in the current game. It combines the other torpedo skills into an expensive skill so that the others don't just feel like filler for some ships and useless for others, freeing up two slots.

Extended Torpedo Range: 3 Points
- Brings back the older torpedo skill that could be useful on some ships with mediocre torpedo performance that could become more useful with some skills invested. I'm not sure what the figures should be set at so I'm just using some random numbers that seem good to me. With this skill, the French torpedoes could reach out to 11KM, Germans to 8KM, and British to 12KM or 10KM depending on the ship. The IJN could be looking at 12Km, 14KM, and 22KM torpedoes and the Italians up to 15.5KM.
+ 2Km Torpedo Range
+5% to Torpedo detectability
-3 Knots to Torpedo Speed

Combat Air Patrol Fuel Tanks: 2 Points
- Borrowing this from the carriers. Due to the limited amount of new, additional AA skills, I think more potent fighter planes would be a good thing and a way to increase AA without messing with a ton of AA statistics. It would help the lock-on time due to the presence of aircraft within the patrol radius.
+10% Ranges of Fighter Consumable

Improved Hangar Storage: 1 Point
If fighters do lock on, it's generally a 1 for 1 trade on the attack planes. Thus, by adding one more plane to the fighter patrol, a good lock on to the enemy planes causes the loss of 1 more attack aircraft.
+1 To the Total Number Of Fighter Planes Launched



Now for BATTLESHIPS which I generally like the setup of. The rearranged older skills, and changes to them, are all fine by me. However, I feel like there should maybe be a few changes to some of the new skills, mostly rearranging the penalties and bonuses. First, Dead Eye and Super Heavy AP Shells should have some changes.

Dead Eye: 4 Points
-10% to dispersion when no enemy ships are in detection
+50% to detection time after firing (The standard is 20 seconds, so this will now be 30 seconds, slowing down the fire rate of these somewhat more accurate shots)
OR
+30% to Fire and Flooding Time ( If you're going to be more accurate, thus doing more damage, you should have a penalty inflicted so that one someone shoots back, it's more costly and the HP exchange feels better between any class of ship. This is simply removed from the Super Heavy AP Shells skill and placed here)

Super Heavy AP Shells: 3 Points
+5% to AP damage
+30% to Fire and Flooding Time (Removed. This bonus in damage isn't as considerable as that of Dead Eye. The difference in a Shikimia shell, as an example, hitting due to less dispersion from Dead Eye is 19400 potential damage. The same shell with a 5% damage boost that hits has a potential damage of 20,370. That's less than a 1000 HP difference and that's only if the shells and do a full penetration on a citadel. So a ricochet, torpedo bulge hit, main battery hit, shatter, or over-penetration barely matter, because the skill has no relevance. I'd rather get hit for slightly more damage less often that to be hit for a ton of damage, more often.)

Edited by Skuggsja
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@Skuggsja Is this just a repost w/an extra word in the title or is there alternate content in here?

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2 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

@Skuggsja Is this just a repost w/an extra word in the title or is there alternate content in here?

I posted it in two areas so it didn't get lost or overlooked in the hundreds of random posts a day. One in general and one the actual suggestions. Sorry for the confusion.

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My recommendation for cruiser skills:

1) remove torpedo boost skills, they don't do much for most cruisers

2) remove the spotter plane altering skill, only a handful of cruisers have spotters

3) change the consumables-boosting skills to boost ALL consumables by a lesser amount, rather than a handful of consumables that most cruisers don't have by a large amount

4) return an AFT-like skill and a BFT-like skill to the tree

5) return BOS and PM to the tree 

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The issue with cruiser torpedo skills is that only one cruiser in the entire game would actually benefit from them, Kitakami.

Buffing catapult fighters is a good thought, however...

1: Catapult aircraft are remarkably useless and do very little

2: the only cruisers with good AA and could get value from those skills, have to trade smoke and/or radar to get a fighter.

3: the other cruisers that don’t have that choice are much better off with a spotter for the extra range/blindfiring smokes.

the spotter plane skill in the cruiser tree is the same story. The only cruiser that could potentially use it is Lazo. 
 

Plus, I’d also add PM back to the tree as well. Why cruisers lost this I have no idea, and more than a few (Hipper hulled cruisers, T5-9 FR and IJN, DM) would like it back

As for BBs, Its just better if they remove Deadeye all together and replace it with a skill that might encourage getting close. Something along the lines of this (pick ONE active and ONE passive)

CLOSE QUARTERS DUELIST

Active

-5% dispersion when firing at enemies inside your detection range

-10% Turret traverse when more than 2 enemies are inside your detection range

-30% to secondary battery dispersion and reload when more than 2 visible enemies are within secondary range (scales with ManSec and Straight-A Arty)

Passive

-10% Fire and flooding duration

-10% rudder shift time

+5% Maximum speed

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3 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

So I've had some thoughts on the rework of captain skills. Unlike some, I hardly think it's killing the game by any means. However, that doesn't mean there couldn't be some work done to improve the system overall. These are just my opinions and I figured I would throw them here to see if anyone felt the same.

First, CRUISERS. For the most part, I think the cruiser skills are relatively decent. Nothing spectacular but nothing too bad either. However, the amount of torpedo skills seems excessive in consideration of the amount of truly useable torpedoes on cruisers in-game. Don't get me wrong, there is a situation where everyone has used any torpedo at some point and it saved the day. I'm talking about in general though, how often do you get to use your Russian Cruiser or German Cruiser torpedoes, and so with success? I feel the most torpedo-oriented cruisers are the Italians and the Japanese and to a limited extent the British light cruisers. If I'm using my 4km Russian torpedoes or my 6km German torpedoes on my cruisers its usually a bad situation and I don't need to reload them faster, they don't need to travel faster, and the damage amount probably doesn't need to be boosted anyway.

Currently, there are 6 points you can invest in torpedoes, but a lot of cruisers have limited torpedo capability or none, and this takes up a bit of space in the skill tree that might have better use. I propose combining these skills into a Torpedo Expert skill and/or combining these skills and offer something like Extended Torpedo Range with a debuff to detection or speed of the torpedoes. With the additional slot freed up, I would propose a point be used to introduce and enhance Fighter Patrol Craft skills
 

Torpedo Expert: 4 Points
- Combines Swift Fish, Enhanced Torpedo Explosive Charge, and Torpedo Reload
-10% Torpedo Tube Reload Speed
+5 Knots to Torpedo Speed
+10% Torpedo Damage (Reduced from 15%)

This skill would be for the most hardcore torpedo oriented cruisers, and their players, in the current game. It combines the other torpedo skills into an expensive skill so that the others don't just feel like filler for some ships and useless for others, freeing up two slots.

Extended Torpedo Range: 3 Points
- Brings back the older torpedo skill that could be useful on some ships with mediocre torpedo performance that could become more useful with some skills invested. I'm not sure what the figures should be set at so I'm just using some random numbers that seem good to me. With this skill, the French torpedoes could reach out to 11KM, Germans to 8KM, and British to 12KM or 10KM depending on the ship. The IJN could be looking at 12Km, 14KM, and 22KM torpedoes and the Italians up to 15.5KM.
+ 2Km Torpedo Range
+5% to Torpedo detectability
-3 Knots to Torpedo Speed

Combat Air Patrol Fuel Tanks: 2 Points
- Borrowing this from the carriers. Due to the limited amount of new, additional AA skills, I think more potent fighter planes would be a good thing and a way to increase AA without messing with a ton of AA statistics. It would help the lock-on time due to the presence of aircraft within the patrol radius.
+10% Ranges of Fighter Consumable

Improved Hangar Storage: 1 Point
If fighters do lock on, it's generally a 1 for 1 trade on the attack planes. Thus, by adding one more plane to the fighter patrol, a good lock on to the enemy planes causes the loss of 1 more attack aircraft.
+1 To the Total Number Of Fighter Planes Launched



Now for BATTLESHIPS which I generally like the setup of. The rearranged older skills, and changes to them, are all fine by me. However, I feel like there should maybe be a few changes to some of the new skills, mostly rearranging the penalties and bonuses. First, Dead Eye and Super Heavy AP Shells should have some changes.

Dead Eye: 4 Points
-10% to dispersion when no enemy ships are in detection
+50% to detection time after firing (The standard is 20 seconds, so this will now be 30 seconds, slowing down the fire rate of these somewhat more accurate shots)
OR
+30% to Fire and Flooding Time ( If you're going to be more accurate, thus doing more damage, you should have a penalty inflicted so that one someone shoots back, it's more costly and the HP exchange feels better between any class of ship. This is simply removed from the Super Heavy AP Shells skill and placed here)

Super Heavy AP Shells: 3 Points
+5% to AP damage
+30% to Fire and Flooding Time (Removed. This bonus in damage isn't as considerable as that of Dead Eye. The difference in a Shikimia shell, as an example, hitting due to less dispersion from Dead Eye is 19400 potential damage. The same shell with a 5% damage boost that hits has a potential damage of 20,370. That's less than a 1000 HP difference and that's only if the shells and do a full penetration on a citadel. So a ricochet, torpedo bulge hit, main battery hit, shatter, or over-penetration barely matter, because the skill has no relevance. I'd rather get hit for slightly more damage less often that to be hit for a ton of damage, more often.)

Well, the cruiser skills WOULD be relatively decent, unless you're running that dumb as rocks super DPM build, where you go maximum detection range, but your DPM is nuts (case in point, my Alaska's firing like every 12s at half health, it's hilarious but it's DUMB)

That said, I actually really like your idea of removing the penalty off of Super Heavy AP Shells and tacking it onto Dead Eye. that is actually pretty good.

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2 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

My recommendation for cruiser skills:

1) remove torpedo boost skills, they don't do much for most cruisers

2) remove the spotter plane altering skill, only a handful of cruisers have spotters

3) change the consumables-boosting skills to boost ALL consumables by a lesser amount, rather than a handful of consumables that most cruisers don't have by a large amount

4) return an AFT-like skill and a BFT-like skill to the tree

5) return BOS and PM to the tree 

1. That's sort of the idea of my thought process, reduce the number of torpedo skills overall. The Japanese cruisers mesh with them well and I think the Italians. All other cruisers don't really as they provide little benefit to the gameplay. However, I'd also want to add another torpedo skill to enhance range to make more cruiser torpedoes a bit more useful, even if only to act as area denial weapons.

2. I disagree, I really like that spotter skill for the cruisers that can use it. Russian light cruisers of the lower tier, Japanese and German Cruisers of higher tiers.

3. Yeah I think its weird how limited it is too. Few ships get many benefits out of it because most only have 1 or 2 consumables.

4. I see little use for AFT or BFT unless you're referring to the AA benefits. I wouldn't mind seeing them worked in a bit more.
 

1 hour ago, tfcas119 said:

1: Catapult aircraft are remarkably useless and do very little

1.  On the contrary, they can be quite useful and strong. I know from playing CV that when they do work, the 1 for 1 exchange is the best AA there is in-game. 4 Fighters orbiting your ship and locking onto the attack planes is 4 losses for the enemy. They also do a great job of warding my attacks away from ships they are orbiting. That doesn't always work because players wait too long to launch them.
 

1 hour ago, tfcas119 said:

2: the only cruisers with good AA and could get value from those skills, have to trade smoke and/or radar to get a fighter.

2. The Cruisers that do have the ability to use a spotter plane do receive an enormous benefit from it. Not every cruiser has great AA or the need to swap out Radar for it. Zao, Azuma, Ibuki, Yoshina, Roon, and Hindenburg all come to mind immediately. Boudony, Schors, and Lazo also come to mind. If fighters are useless, as you said previously then spotter is the better alternative anyway.
 

1 hour ago, tfcas119 said:

As for BBs, Its just better if they remove Deadeye all together and replace it with a skill that might encourage getting close. Something along the lines of this (pick ONE active and ONE passive)

CLOSE QUARTERS DUELIST

This skill already exists for BBs to a degree. The Close Quarters Skill for 4 points improves main battery reload and secondary reload when ships are within your secondary range.

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For Cruiser, all of the new skills are pure garbage. You can choose between slightly more DPM with HE or slightly more DPM with AP. Such variety. I would first fire the guy who thought of these skills, then make a community contest instead.  

Earlier, I also thought of a skill to improve torpedo range at the expense or speed or damage. I like that option.

 

For BB:

Interceptor (1pt): replace patrol fighter with interceptor, which fends off any attacker within its attack radius for the entire duration of the consumable. 

Superintendent: I'd bring it back exactly as it was.

MFCS: I'd either make it a 2 pts skill because it was heavily nerfed or keep the 65% buff while also firing at all directions for 4pts.

Deadeye: two options here

1- Change activation to "when the enemy is visible inside your detection radius". This would force two choices by the player; keep the detection low to fight at mid to close ranges or drop concealment entirely to snipe from afar.

2- +10% dispersion buff

-20% max firing range

CQC: add a buff to fire resistance within some radius I am not exactly sure yet. 

I'd drop all AA skills, replace them with actual useful skills and build them into dual purpose secondary armament.

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At this point, I'm on the idea torpedo skills are just place holders for ASW skills.

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