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LunchCutter

Should a Tier 6 DD be able to damage a Tier 6 Cruiser?

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In my Vasteras, I fire 6 torps into a distracted Graf Spee at 8k, he was already damaged so I brought his health down to 1300, opened up on him with my HE guns, 30+ hits later he is able to escape to a island, still alive, my shells did nothing, zero damage, or occasionally 100 points of damage. The post game report showed 39 hits, 1100 damage. What makes it more painful is he was side on, perfectly positioned yet I could not scratch him, Do all this only for a CV to finish him off 30 seconds later with a rocket attack, I just felt like something was broken. 

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It might be broken, it might be part of the game's mechanics.  It just depends on where the shells hit.  If you post up the replay of the match, people can tell you which one it is.  If it is broken, it's good to bring it to light so it can be fixed.

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Graf Spee was a pocket battleship. It’s got 25mm playing around the center too. If any tier VI cruiser should be able to shrug off DD rounds it’s this one.

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3 minutes ago, Firewalk said:

Graf Spee was a pocket battleship. It’s got 25mm playing around the center too. If any tier VI cruiser should be able to shrug off DD rounds it’s this one.

Yeah, that's a pretty sturdy cruiser.   Also, he's got pretty good secondaries to bother you as the DD.  

 

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21 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

I just felt like something was broken. 

Small HE shells hitting the armor belt or other locations with actual armor rather than structural plating will just shatter for no damage. Aim at the superstructure.

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All ships are supposed to be able to damage other ships, apparently some don't damage them much. Your torps did damage.

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9 minutes ago, Firewalk said:

Graf Spee was a pocket battleship.

Nope, Panzerschiff or armoured ship. Basically a heavy cruiser.

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10 minutes ago, Firewalk said:

Graf Spee was a pocket battleship. It’s got 25mm playing around the center too. If any tier VI cruiser should be able to shrug off DD rounds it’s this one.

The Graf Spee was an overgunned heavy cruiser.  Only the British  press called it a "pocket battleship".  "Pocket battleship"  was a propaganda term, not an official term used by any navy.

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2 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

All ships are supposed to be able to damage other ships, apparently some don't damage them much. Your torps did damage.

6 torps hits just made him angry... Just felt bit cheated.

 

Happened a year ago in my Fletcher when a preoccupied Yamato popped out at 5k from behind a iceberg, 10 torps into him for 90+k damage, he had under 900 health left after he activated DCP. I opened up on him with my guns and could not pen him, anywhere, his secondaries disabled me twice and he was able to finish me off with his main guns, sailed away with 200 health points after 40+ hits.. Man I was rather annoyed...

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17 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

6 torps hits just made him angry... Just felt bit cheated.

 

Happened a year ago in my Fletcher when a preoccupied Yamato popped out at 5k from behind a iceberg, 10 torps into him for 90+k damage, he had under 900 health left after he activated DCP. I opened up on him with my guns and could not pen him, anywhere, his secondaries disabled me twice and he was able to finish me off with his main guns, sailed away with 200 health points after 40+ hits.. Man I was rather annoyed...

HE shells can penetrate, in most cases*, 1/6th their diameter.  So Vasteras' 120mm guns, when firing HE, can penetrate 20mm of plating/armor.

Looking at Graf Spee's armor we can see that only the superstructure, bow and stern (the green shade areas) are 20mm or less.  Every other part of Graf Spee will shatter Vasteras' HE rounds.  That said, even rounds that shatter can start a fire.

image.thumb.png.828734c3e3cef1b78c1a0e87dc12bacf.png

*British BB main gun's HE and German HE penetrates 1/4th their diameter and IJN 100mm gun's HE penetrate 30% of their diameter,  The IFHE skill boosts all HE penetration by 25% at the cost of 50% of the chance to start a fire.

 

Keep in mind that you got the lion's share of the EXP and credit rewards for that Graf Spee.  Most of a ship's value is in the damage done to it.  Sinking it is only worth 15% of the total value.

Edited by Helstrem
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Spee is pretty much the toughest of the T6 cruisers. Vasteras only has 120mm guns, so the HE will do nothing but set an occasional fire if you aim for the belt- but those Bofors guns actually have pretty good AP pen, for the tier. Switch to AP and aim bow or stern; that's the quickest way to put Spee down with DD guns, if you've spent your torps and she's still floating.

The better option would be to stay outside of detection range and spam torps, because like the rest of the smokeless EU lineup Vasteras thrives on knowing How Not to be Seen. Stay hidden, and keep up that endless barrage of boom-fish until something gives.

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Sounds like in both situations you should have been firing AP at the bow or stern armor. 

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Vasteras' 120mm HE shells have 20mm HE Pen.

 

Graf Spee's pertinent armor values:

13mm superstructure

16mm extremities with 19mm icebreaker bow

100mm plating / armor belt

25mm hull sides and deck armor.

 

Basically any of your HE shells landing on the center of the hull will Non-Pen.  Also shells landing on the turrets of Graf Spee will not do anything.  In addition, if you're firing into the superstructure, be mindful of the conning tower, you sure as hell aren't going to HE Pen that.  Everything else can be HE Pen'ed.

shot-21-01-24-00-21-15-0120.jpg

If you're firing DD guns at larger ships, you have to be pretty mindful where you hit, even against Cruisers.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Just fire at the bridge, when in doubt commit a warcrime the crew areas  will always give you some points of damage unless there oversaturated

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1 hour ago, GandalfTehGray said:

Sounds like in both situations you should have been firing AP at the bow or stern armor. 

What the wizard man said, firing AP at extremities and if at close range upper belt can be often easier than trying to get HE superstructure hits.

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5 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

6 torps hits just made him angry... Just felt bit cheated.

 

Happened a year ago in my Fletcher when a preoccupied Yamato popped out at 5k from behind a iceberg, 10 torps into him for 90+k damage, he had under 900 health left after he activated DCP. I opened up on him with my guns and could not pen him, anywhere, his secondaries disabled me twice and he was able to finish me off with his main guns, sailed away with 200 health points after 40+ hits.. Man I was rather annoyed...

My only guess is you're firing HE shells straight into the side of his hull

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You got outplayed by not knowing how to properly engage an enemy. Stop trying to pass your failure off onto some perceived flaw in the game’s balance.

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11 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

so I brought his health down to 1300, opened up on him with my HE guns, 30+ hits later he is able to escape to a island, still alive, my shells did nothing, zero damage, or occasionally 100 points of damage. The post game report showed 39 hits, 1100 damage. What makes it more painful is he was side on, perfectly positioned yet I could not scratch him

Vasteras’ HE pen: 20mm

Graf Spee side armor: 25mm casemate, 100mm belt

Vasteras AP pen at 8km: ~70mm

fuse threshold: 20mm, .002sec fuse timer

7 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

 

Happened a year ago in my Fletcher when a preoccupied Yamato popped out at 5k from behind a iceberg, 10 torps into him for 90+k damage, he had under 900 health left after he activated DCP. I opened up on him with my guns and could not pen him, anywhere, his secondaries disabled me twice and he was able to finish me off with his main guns, sailed away with 200 health points after 40+ hits.. Man I was rather annoyed...

Fletcher HE pen: 21mm

Yamato hull armor: 32mm bow, stern, casemate, 409mm belt

Fletcher AP pen at 5k: ~120mm

Fuse threshold: 21mm, .002sec fuse timer 

I see nothing wrong here, just small caliber HE being shrugged off by ships capable of resisting it while AP would of been enough to finish it off

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11 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

In my Vasteras, I fire 6 torps into a distracted Graf Spee at 8k, he was already damaged so I brought his health down to 1300, opened up on him with my HE guns, 30+ hits later he is able to escape to a island, still alive, my shells did nothing, zero damage, or occasionally 100 points of damage. The post game report showed 39 hits, 1100 damage. What makes it more painful is he was side on, perfectly positioned yet I could not scratch him, Do all this only for a CV to finish him off 30 seconds later with a rocket attack, I just felt like something was broken. 

There are plenty of places the Vasteras' guns could hit the Graf Spee and do damage. 

 

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12 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

What makes it more painful is he was side on, perfectly positioned yet I could not scratch him,

Damage saturation, perhaps?

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12 hours ago, Lert said:

Small HE shells hitting the armor belt or other locations with actual armor rather than structural plating will just shatter for no damage. Aim at the superstructure.

Hey Lert like the new look been bulking up?

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1 minute ago, bosco1111 said:

Hey Lert like the new look been bulking up?

Yeah every time someone complains about the game I do one push-up.

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5 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yeah every time someone complains about the game I do one push-up.

You'd be super-swol if you did a pushup every time WG made a mistake and someone called the players "whiners" for pointing it out. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yeah every time someone complains about the game I do one push-up.

I call [edited] on that.  You'd never get any playing done, and you'd be too big to get out your cat door...

:cap_rambo:

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5 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

You'd be super-swol if you did a pushup every time WG made a mistake and someone called the players "whiners" for pointing it out.

Big difference in how things are pointed out, though.

Also, this was me this morning:

ZIZmne0.jpg

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