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Bortt

Did anyone test this patch?

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My theory with this patch is that nobody ever tested it.

They got a bunch of captain skills that sounded cool. Wrote them down on pieces of paper and put them in a hat. WG had their spreadsheet meeting and they pulled them out one by one while determining how many skill points each individual skill should be valued at. Then programed them into the game. There's no way anyone ever looked at a full skill tree and asked the qestion, "Does this make sense?" There no way anybody could have actually tried to build a ship and play it considering these skills.

Ship builds need to have synergy. If you want to have an AA build, Maybe you give up range or maneuverability. If you want to have tankiness to ships, you give up AA potential or secondaries. They way things are now, with BB's for example, a similar tank build would take 20 points and you still wouldn't have AR. The exact same build as before would require 23 points. None of these skills make sense in regards to working together.

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22 minutes ago, Bortt said:

My theory with this patch is that nobody ever tested it.

They got a bunch of captain skills that sounded cool. Wrote them down on pieces of paper and put them in a hat. WG had their spreadsheet meeting and they pulled them out one by one while determining how many skill points each individual skill should be valued at. Then programed them into the game. There's no way anyone ever looked at a full skill tree and asked the qestion, "Does this make sense?" There no way anybody could have actually tried to build a ship and play it considering these skills.

Ship builds need to have synergy. If you want to have an AA build, Maybe you give up range or maneuverability. If you want to have tankiness to ships, you give up AA potential or secondaries. They way things are now, with BB's for example, a similar tank build would take 20 points and you still wouldn't have AR. The exact same build as before would require 23 points. None of these skills make sense in regards to working together.

There were people who tested it, but as far as I'm aware their feedback was ignored.

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The powers that be have stated multiple times that there is not enough participation or serious competitive play in the public test server. As a result, they have implemented the rework on the live server in order to gather a higher volume of meaningful data. If I recall, this is similar to what happened with the CV rework.

If anything, this screams out that there needs to be more incentive for players to spend their time playing on the PTS, and also there needs to be an incentive to play like they would normally as opposed to just sailing through the middle of the map in a new boat.

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I participated in player test for the first time for this. The rework was on PTS for a total of about two weeks IIRC. When they sent me the surveys at the end, I waved my arms and jumped up and down in warning. I was concerned about excessive strength of a couple CV skills, but my biggest concerns were the lack of diversity in cruiser skills and the stasis Deadeye might promote.  

Edited by Pugilistic
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Just now, Pugilistic said:

I participated in player test for the first time for this. The rework was on PTS for a total of about two weeks IIRC. When they sent me the surveys at the end, I waved my arms and jumped up and down in warning. 

Metoo.

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5 minutes ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

The powers that be have stated multiple times that there is not enough participation or serious competitive play in the public test server. As a result, they have implemented the rework on the live server in order to gather a higher volume of meaningful data. If I recall, this is similar to what happened with the CV rework.

If anything, this screams out that there needs to be more incentive for players to spend their time playing on the PTS, and also there needs to be an incentive to play like they would normally as opposed to just sailing through the middle of the map in a new boat.

WG went full Bill O'Reilly just like during the CV rebork. You would think that they would have learned not to do that.

1276771225_tenor(17).gif.376faa178954d186531d3aee1d41c287.gif

 

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In a nutshell. Good Bye manual secondaries. Helloooooo DEADEYE!!!!!

Edited by Xwing_Red1
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"We want to discourage camping"

"There will never be a T10 premium sold"

"We will never have submarines"

 

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The only BB build that actually makes sense is a concealment/Deadeye build. You’re giving up so much tankiness with the lack of synergy now. Any sort of team play is out of the window. BBs sit in the back and do their thing. Cruisers go farm. DD can’t do much because you can’t expect support. The old play style of a push that was supported by all classes is out the window.

Edited by Bortt
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32 minutes ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

The powers that be have stated multiple times that there is not enough participation or serious competitive play in the public test server. As a result, they have implemented the rework on the live server in order to gather a higher volume of meaningful data. If I recall, this is similar to what happened with the CV rework.

If anything, this screams out that there needs to be more incentive for players to spend their time playing on the PTS, and also there needs to be an incentive to play like they would normally as opposed to just sailing through the middle of the map in a new boat.

Most of though played 3 games and could have told you these skills didn’t make sense. Often without even entering a battle you could just realize what you’re giving up on your ship. On top of that. The number of captain xp needed needed to get to 21 points is a bit nuts.

Plus, with the amount of grinding on the live server, who has time for PTS. 

Edited by Bortt
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The problem is and always has been that, Yes they tested it but decided to proceed any way. 

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32 minutes ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

The powers that be have stated multiple times that there is not enough participation or serious competitive play in the public test server. As a result, they have implemented the rework on the live server in order to gather a higher volume of meaningful data. If I recall, this is similar to what happened with the CV rework.

You're 100% right on all points, about what happened and why... but have you got a link to any of the "powers that be" saying that? I've never seen WG admit that line of reasoning, even though it is obviously the case. 

Originally on PTS it was all against bots, so we said that's not a good way to really test it. Then they made it players only, but most matches were then 2 or 3 ships on a side. That's not a great way to test it either.

Of course there's virtually zero incentive to actually test the stuff for them too.

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34 minutes ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

The powers that be have stated multiple times that there is not enough participation or serious competitive play in the public test server. As a result, they have implemented the rework on the live server in order to gather a higher volume of meaningful data. If I recall, this is similar to what happened with the CV rework.

The worst part about the CV rework is that the next 12 patches were spent modifying everything to do with them.  Reticles, speed, damage ... I think the only thing they didn't screw with was the concealment of the ships.  They've screwed up visibility, ship rendering all sorts of stuff.  They did a lot of hidden play changes too despite what they claim.  Every patch playability was tweaked in some fashion, most of which they never acknowledged.  It was enough for even part time players to notice. 

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1 hour ago, OuijaApologist said:

The skills were changed at the last second just before going live. Only WG head office knew what the skills would do. 

No one knew what the changes would do. This is a live test because there are not enough testers to develop the data for a change this large.

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6 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

No one knew what the changes would do. This is a live test because there are not enough testers to develop the data for a change this large.

It's official, was not tested.

There's the smoking gun folks. 

Edited by OuijaApologist

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Well IMO it comes down to the "fun" factor.  Respecing over 200 captains does not = fun. Reworking modules on over 200 ships  again not fun.

in the end for me at least, to quote Douglas Adams

 

So Long and thanks for all the fish!

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

The powers that be have stated multiple times that there is not enough participation or serious competitive play in the public test server. As a result, they have implemented the rework on the live server in order to gather a higher volume of meaningful data. If I recall, this is similar to what happened with the CV rework.

If anything, this screams out that there needs to be more incentive for players to spend their time playing on the PTS, and also there needs to be an incentive to play like they would normally as opposed to just sailing through the middle of the map in a new boat.

Honestly, there's no incentive that they could give me that would get me to play the test server.

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8 minutes ago, OuijaApologist said:

There's the smoking gun folks. 

It had to be a live test because as I said there are not enough testers. Since it is a test feel free to comment on the skills but please make it constructive.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

It had to be a live test because as I said there are not enough testers. Since it is a test feel free to comment on the skills but please make it constructive.

I agree, Brush.  I wish that people understood this, and furthermore, I wish that they wouldn't throw hissy fits at things that come out during live testing.  That is, "Why wasn't this tested before going live?", "This needs to be fixed IMMEDIATELY!", and so on.

I think that the feedback and criticism needs to be polite, civil, and constructive.  And players need to be patient.

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I agree, Brush.  I wish that people understood this, and furthermore, I wish that they wouldn't throw hissy fits at things that come out during live testing.  That is, "Why wasn't this tested before going live?", "This needs to be fixed IMMEDIATELY!", and so on.

I think that the feedback and criticism needs to be polite, civil, and constructive.  And players need to be patient.

Thank you. :Smile_honoring:

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8 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

It had to be a live test because as I said there are not enough testers. Since it is a test feel free to comment on the skills but please make it constructive.

Thank you for being honest. :cap_like:

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The supposed reason for the rework was to give players more options when it comes to builds. This obviously is not working as now higher tier game play has become even more static as battleships stay at range to snipe using the Dead Eye skill, and other new skills to compliment this play style. This is very similar to what WG just did in WOT and it's receiving the same response there.

Splitting BFT and AFT into different skill sets (secondary and AA), removing survival skills for cruisers, making other survival skills more points than before forcing us to buy points just to get back to the same but weaker build that we had pre-rework, all amounts to a terrible patch. All of which War Gaming was aware of before this rework went live, and yet they proceeded anyway.

To be honest increasing the 19 point commanders to 21 points, but making the requisite survival skills cost more points forcing us to purchase them using doubloons, just seems like a cash grab. 

Where Did/Does Our Money Go? — Elder Scrolls Online

 

Edited by Jolly_Rodgered
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1 hour ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

The powers that be have stated multiple times that there is not enough participation or serious competitive play in the public test server. As a result, they have implemented the rework on the live server in order to gather a higher volume of meaningful data. If I recall, this is similar to what happened with the CV rework.

If anything, this screams out that there needs to be more incentive for players to spend their time playing on the PTS, and also there needs to be an incentive to play like they would normally as opposed to just sailing through the middle of the map in a new boat.

It is not up to the players to test the skill systems or anything else. The test server is there for players who wish to see how new things implemented or changed and offer feedback. There is not much of an incentive for players to spend their time playing on a test server at all beyond seeing what may come. If you want to encourage more players to use the test server when they would normally spend their time gaming on the live server you must compensate them with something for doing so. The Super tester program is designed to test these issues without involving a majority of players or interfering with their gaming time. But for something as massive as this skill rework to be released it should have been tested for months and I mean months. I do not think this roll out was very well communicated nor tested for long enough of a time to see what impact it would have on the game. By pushing it out live way ahead of when it should have been released they have made the live servers the test servers and the player base the testers. This has had a negative impact and I know of quite a few people that have simply put the game down for now because the change ruined the game for them. Something as essential to the game that effects every single class of ship needs to be test, retested, tested again, and retested again long before it is ever pushed to a live server. This patch has changed the game play totally currently and its going to a more static style for some ships mainly BBS. I can not blame them for not wanting to push now as the patch has made them more or less a long range platform and nerfed brawling and tanking into the ground. Unless you are in a full division with back up its extremely hard to push as a BB now. The added skill points do not equal the same impact one had with the 19 points and old skill set. The stated change was to help promote different builds but honestly that is not going to happen. Just like under the old system certain skill will be used by everyone. Even more so now as some of the skills that were cheap and useful are not to expensive and are not worth spending skill points on. So in reality you are going to have less options that you did before and forced to use the same skills as everyone else to remain relevant in battles. The CV rework only involved one class of ship... this rework effects the every single class of ship in the game. My honest opinion is it was to bold of a jump taken to fast for whatever reason and will turn more players off of playing that it will bring in.

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