That's it, I've had it with the player base being blamed for WG's bad decisions!

[OuijaApologist]

You go to a movie theater, buy your ticket, and sit down in your seat. The movie starts, it's not the movie you bought the ticket for. You go complain to the person that sold you the ticket and they say, "Sorry, you asked for it." and walk off.

another example:

You go to a restaurant, order a meal and it's not what you ordered. You call the waiter over and they say, "Sorry, not my fault. You asked for it." and walk away.

The CV rebork, the Payto Rico dockyard disaster, and now the commander skill resale. Every time there's a major screw up of epic proportions, we players are told it's not WG's fault, we asked for it. 

 

What, are we suddenly in grade school, who thinks like this?

 

If someone asks you to do something, the individual carrying out said request has a social contract obligation to not be a complete idiot when performing said request.

It's nothing more than corporate double talk to blame the customer.

 

WG, the only way to improve these reworks is to listen to the player base. Start by taking responsibility and correcting your actions.

 

[Wargambler]

Who is blaming the playerbase? I haven't seen many threads doing that, or WG statements ot that effect (so far).

Is this a preemptive accusation?

[OuijaApologist]

1 minute ago, HonniSoitQuiMalYPense said:

Who is blaming the playerbase? I haven't seen many threads doing that, or WG statements ot that effect (so far).

Is this a preemptive accusation?

How to kill a game thread, page two and three.

[Wargambler]

1 minute ago, OuijaApologist said:

How to kill a game thread, page two and three.

just provide some sort of evidence/example to back up your assertion. I just have genuine doubts about the claim that the plauyerbase have been accused of being responsible for the skill rework failure, I'm sorry.

Knowing WG, they are quite capable of doing this sometime in the near future, however.

[Wye_So_Serious]

2 minutes ago, OuijaApologist said:

You go to a movie theater, buy your ticket, and sit down in your seat. The movie starts, it's not the movie you bought the ticket for. You go complain to the person that sold you the ticket and they say, "Sorry, you asked for it." and walk off.

another example:

You go to a restaurant, order a meal and it's not what you ordered. You call the waiter over and they say, "Sorry you asked for it." and walk away.

The CV rebork, the Payto Rico dockyard disaster, and now the commander skill resale. Every time there's a major screw up of epic proportions, we players are told it's not WG's fault, we asked for it. 

 

What, are we suddenly in grade school, who thinks like this?

 

If someone asks you to do something, the individual carrying out said request has a social contract obligation to not be a complete idiot when performing said request.

It's nothing more than corporate double talk to blame the customer.

 

WG, the only way to improve these reworks is to listen to the player base and start taking responsibility for and correcting your actions.

 

It’s just the “vocal minority” in WGs view.

I’d wager considerable money on an objective player base survey which would reveal:

-CVs and the rework were failures

-skill rework is a disaster

-Smolensk was a mistake

-USN BB split is a disaster

please feel free to add

[Wye_So_Serious]

6 minutes ago, HonniSoitQuiMalYPense said:

Who is blaming the playerbase? I haven't seen many threads doing that, or WG statements ot that effect (so far).

Exactly, so far.

It will happen “soon”

[jags_domain]

10 minutes ago, OuijaApologist said:

You go to a movie theater, buy your ticket, and sit down in your seat. The movie starts, it's not the movie you bought the ticket for. You go complain to the person that sold you the ticket and they say, "Sorry, you asked for it." and walk off.

another example:

You go to a restaurant, order a meal and it's not what you ordered. You call the waiter over and they say, "Sorry, not my fault. You asked for it." and walk away.

The CV rebork, the Payto Rico dockyard disaster, and now the commander skill resale. Every time there's a major screw up of epic proportions, we players are told it's not WG's fault, we asked for it. 

 

What, are we suddenly in grade school, who thinks like this?

 

If someone asks you to do something, the individual carrying out said request has a social contract obligation to not be a complete idiot when performing said request.

It's nothing more than corporate double talk to blame the customer.

 

WG, the only way to improve these reworks is to listen to the player base and start taking responsibility for and correcting your actions.

 

The players did ask

They complain about CV demand a change get one a butch endlessly.

Complain that BB are not strong enough anymore. Makes changes players [edited].

At some point why would WG ever listen to the players when they only complain. 

[FrodoFraggin]

There was a post or interview with Femennely, former WG employee, and she was about as diplomatic and nice as one could be, but reading between the lines you could tell WG does not hold players in the highest regard.  Well, it wasn't so much a WG only thing, maybe more so that Americans expect more out of companies they buy stuff from than what non American companies are used to providing.

[Curly__san]

5 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

The players did ask

They complain about CV demand a change get one a butch endlessly.

Complain that BB are not strong enough anymore. Makes changes players [edited].

At some point why would WG ever listen to the players when they only complain. 

How right you are. /s.

Everything is just so wonderful.

 

[SeaCat_]

16 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Complain that BB are not strong enough anymore. Makes changes players [edited].

 

So you're OK with the answer -make them stronger by putting them further away from the fight undetected to deal their damage?

I assume by your logic if your not happy with the solution you should just keep your mouth shut .......

Got it ...thanks

[McBuns_Splitter]

You forgot that the short list fiasco was our fault for not reading closely enough or remembering that they did it previous years...lol

[Almedius]

11 minutes ago, FrodoFraggin said:

There was a post or interview with Femennely, former WG employee, and she was about as diplomatic and nice as one could be, but reading between the lines you could tell WG does not hold players in the highest regard.  Well, it wasn't so much a WG only thing, maybe more so that Americans expect more out of companies they buy stuff from than what non American companies are used to providing.

And to some degree I can understand that from them...but...like the rest of us they should be able to tell the difference between sage advice and garbage...if they are actually even really paying attention? Its insulting to treat your whole player base like they have Dunning-Kruger...even if a huge percent of them seem to.

[clammboy]

46 minutes ago, OuijaApologist said:

You go to a movie theater, buy your ticket, and sit down in your seat. The movie starts, it's not the movie you bought the ticket for. You go complain to the person that sold you the ticket and they say, "Sorry, you asked for it." and walk off.

another example:

You go to a restaurant, order a meal and it's not what you ordered. You call the waiter over and they say, "Sorry, not my fault. You asked for it." and walk away.

The CV rebork, the Payto Rico dockyard disaster, and now the commander skill resale. Every time there's a major screw up of epic proportions, we players are told it's not WG's fault, we asked for it. 

 

What, are we suddenly in grade school, who thinks like this?

 

If someone asks you to do something, the individual carrying out said request has a social contract obligation to not be a complete idiot when performing said request.

It's nothing more than corporate double talk to blame the customer.

 

WG, the only way to improve these reworks is to listen to the player base and start taking responsibility for and correcting your actions.

 

Again I understand what your trying to say but these are not good examples . Because how many restaurants or movie theaters have customers who get to come in every day and eat for free and then complain about the food or the movie . How would that go over ? Sorry but Wows is a free to play game not a restaurant or movie theater and not in the service business .

Sorry but when you buy a pixel ship you know its not yours and can change at anytime as unfair as that is . I find that if you spend money on this game your called an idiot or a pay2 win player but if you spend nothing your still free to just come on and complain about everything . You can not spend a dime and still have input into the game I think that's a pretty good deal . 

Just don't compare this to payed for services .

 

[Asym_KS]

36 minutes ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

It’s just the “vocal minority” in WGs view.

I’d wager considerable money on an objective player base survey which would reveal:

-CVs and the rework were failures

-skill rework is a disaster

-Smolensk was a mistake

-USN BB split is a disaster

please feel free to add

The Cruiser line split.

The Radar exploitation of Tiers 5 and 6.

The Non Smoke Gunboat expansions.....

The entire Submarine debacles and more to come.

The "BB Clone" war era.

The..............all gimmicks instead of quality, first world content they could have provided.......  And, if they had gone the quality route, this very good game would have grown very well.......especially in PVE !!!    Of that, I have little doubt because parents of "stuck at home ESRB-T children have been asking those of us who frequent eSports clubs and businesses for advice on which games don't have Graphic Violence and Extreme adult content for their locked at home children to play........   What a loss because this game is based on History and reports on WW2 historic events.........!!!!    Gosh, what a shame.

 

[SeaCat_]

1 minute ago, clammboy said:

Again I understand what your trying to say but these are not good examples . Because how many restaurants or movie theaters have customers who get to come in every day and eat for free and then complain about the food or the movie . How would that go over ? Sorry but Wows is a free to play game not a restaurant or movie theater and not in the service business .

 

Sorry but constantly going back to this F2P thing is disingenuous at best and naive at worst ...

Though F2P the majority of the player base inevitably in some way pay's for something ,a large majority. If that wasn't the case F2P platform wouldn't exist.

I'm pretty sure the examples were written with that in mind ...I could be wrong but I doubt it.

[AdmiralThunder]

40 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

The players did ask

They complain about CV demand a change get one a butch endlessly.

Complain that BB are not strong enough anymore. Makes changes players [edited].

At some point why would WG ever listen to the players when they only complain. 

That is quite the stretch to say players asking for game balance changes asked for a complete and total Capt system and skill rework where they take it in the rear. Dare I say that is very WG'esque of you. 

IF WG wants to address AA for example address the damn AA. You don't need an entire Capt skill rework to do so. Small tweaks to existing skills would have been all that was needed Capt wise in addressing AA. After that they would have to fix what they broke with AA mechanics wise when 8.0 arrived. 

No disrespect meant but the players did NOT ask for this rework and were overwhelmingly clear we did not want it and that it would be a disaster (which it is). You don't balance one mechanic issue by reworking another unless that other issue is at fault. Fix the actual issue. The Captain system in WOWS was probably the 1 single thing that worked the best and was least complained about. Can't say that anymore. 

[Taco_De_Moist]

55 minutes ago, OuijaApologist said:

You go to a movie theater, buy your ticket, and sit down in your seat. The movie starts, it's not the movie you bought the ticket for. You go complain to the person that sold you the ticket and they say, "Sorry, you asked for it." and walk off.

another example:

You go to a restaurant, order a meal and it's not what you ordered. You call the waiter over and they say, "Sorry, not my fault. You asked for it." and walk away.

The CV rebork, the Payto Rico dockyard disaster, and now the commander skill resale. Every time there's a major screw up of epic proportions, we players are told it's not WG's fault, we asked for it. 

 

What, are we suddenly in grade school, who thinks like this?

 

If someone asks you to do something, the individual carrying out said request has a social contract obligation to not be a complete idiot when performing said request.

It's nothing more than corporate double talk to blame the customer.

 

WG, the only way to improve these reworks is to listen to the player base. Start by taking responsibility and correcting your actions.

 

Unlike the theater and restaurant.  WG didn't ask you what you wanted for skills, accept payment to fulfill your order, then not give you what you asked for.

[clammboy]

8 minutes ago, SeaCat_ said:

Sorry but constantly going back to this F2P thing is disingenuous at best and naive at worst ...

Though F2P the majority of the player base inevitably in some way pay's for something ,a large majority. If that wasn't the case F2P platform wouldn't exist.

I'm pretty sure the examples were written with that in mind ...I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Look you can nitpick all you want but the fact is you can play for free or you can choose your own price . At what restaurant or movie house do you get this option ? 

I was only using these as as examples of why the OP analogy was not a good one . Not to make light of anyone's choice to spend money or not to spend money .

[AVR_Project]

As a business model, you can't sell the same thing year after year.

Think of the Ford Mustang...

Sensibilities change.  Standards change.  Consumer styles and cultures change...

And so the LOOK must change..   You want a new game every year?  Here it is.

The difference is that you can collect an 'older model' car, where you can't keep the version of this game you had the most fun with.  But that's how it is with on-line gaming these days.

It's like you are leasing a Ford Mustang, starting in 1965, and every year you swap it out with the new model...   And so in 1973, you complain when you swap out a 351 V8 Mach 1 for a second generation Mustang II (4 banger rust bucket).

- But they hopefully save the old programs.  Maybe someday there might be a way to play CO-OP with the older versions...   

[AdmiralThunder]

16 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Again I understand what your trying to say but these are not good examples . Because how many restaurants or movie theaters have customers who get to come in every day and eat for free and then complain about the food or the movie . How would that go over ? Sorry but Wows is a free to play game not a restaurant or movie theater and not in the service business .

Sorry but when you buy a pixel ship you know its not yours and can change at anytime as unfair as that is . I find that if you spend money on this game your called an idiot or a pay2 win player but if you spend nothing your still free to just come on and complain about everything . You can not spend a dime and still have input into the game I think that's a pretty good deal . 

Just don't compare this to payed for services .

 

How about you go to the free clinic because you cut your finger and need a few stitches but instead they amputate the entire arm.

[clammboy]

I don't know @AdmiralThunder you have to talk to your lawyer .

[SeaCat_]

8 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Look you can nitpick all you want but the fact is you can play for free or you can choose your own price . At what restaurant or movie house do you get this option ? 

I was only using these as as examples of why the OP analogy was not a good one . Not to make light of anyone's choice to spend money or not to spend money .

Lot's of places ....just because you get food for free doesn't mean you can't complain when there's hair in it 

https://urbantastebud.com/how-to-get-free-food-at-156-restaurants/

https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/score-free-fast-food/

[clammboy]

3 minutes ago, SeaCat_ said:

Lot's of places ....just because you get food for free doesn't mean you can't complain when there's hair in it 

https://urbantastebud.com/how-to-get-free-food-at-156-restaurants/

https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/score-free-fast-food/

As my kids would say whatever !

[SeaCat_]

Just now, clammboy said:

Whatever 

Sorry man ...i was trolling a little at the end there.....have a great day!

[Soban]

Anybody who questions what OP is saying keep this in mind

In WoT tanks had weak spots. Wargaming buffed Heavy tanks with insane armor and took away weak spots from tanks (Look at Sirfoch's rant on that) So everybody starts logically firing gold rounds to actually deal damage instead of just bouncing shots because go figure a tier 8 facing a tier 10 can't punch through 280mm of armor with 181mm of penetration. Then they reworked ammo because the player base was using too many gold rounds. They blamed this on the player base rather than themselves despite the fact they are the ones who engineered the situation in the first place.

 

Wargaming if they have an option will always ignore the player base and follow the spreadsheets which really say nothing of value instead of actually listening to the players like Flamu or others who actually play the game and try to help. Look at any of the Community Contributors going over crap like the Flying Shimakaze or Sling drop. Wargaming fights tooth and nail to implement crap they want and when you tell them that you don't actually want that they say no according to the spreadsheet you want this. They had the Sub Mini game a few years ago and rather than have a poll on the forums to ask if players wanted subs in the game, they said well everybody is playing this new minigame that we made so this tells us we should start investing in getting subs implemented into the game. At no point in time did WG have a poll (that I am aware of) asking if the players wanted subs, they just assumed it based on people playing a minigame to try something new and maybe to take a slight break from normal battles.

This is the kind of decision making that made me stop spending money on the game. I am not going to go to a restaurant that tells me when I order something that according to their records I will enjoy something else more.