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Dr_Venture

New German DD Line

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I think I mighta beat the dev blog, but the Waterline this morning had some cool info on the new line, and the new dockyard event. 

This line features 150mm guns, has no smoke, and is designed to take on light cruisers. The dockyard event features a German/French DD hybrid with a reload booster *which has me interested* but I'm skeptical how these ships will perform with 150mm guns, do they reload fast enough to make me want to get into a fight with a high dpm light cruiser? How will they stack up to woost and mino? 

Watch from 2minute mark to 4minute mark.

https://youtu.be/vQpnA1MWA0w

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1 hour ago, Dr_Venture said:

I'm skeptical how these ships will perform with 150mm guns, do they reload fast enough to make me want to get into a fight with a high dpm light cruiser? How will they stack up to woost and mino? 

I'm guessing they'll have the Conway/Crysantos stream covering all this tomorrow afternoon NA time, followed by a DevBlog release an hour or so later.

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Guaranteed made in German balanced pre-applied. 

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1 hour ago, Dr_Venture said:

I think I mighta beat the dev blog, but the Waterline this morning had some cool info on the new line, and the new dockyard event. 

This line features 150mm guns, has no smoke, and is designed to take on light cruisers. The dockyard event features a German/French DD hybrid with a reload booster *which has me interested* but I'm skeptical how these ships will perform with 150mm guns, do they reload fast enough to make me want to get into a fight with a high dpm light cruiser? How will they stack up to woost and mino? 

Watch from 2minute mark to 4minute mark.

https://youtu.be/vQpnA1MWA0w

If they are like Munchen without a citadel, not bad at all.

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I was under the impression we were getting Italian BBs next. *confusion intensifies* 

I am, however, pleased to see more DDs...especially a line that blurs the line between DDs and CLs. Of course people are still going to scream at them to cap and such...*sigh*

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The line will be a failure with the info provided so far.

 The line will totally rely on the 2 light cruisers on the enemy team showing broadside, sure the AP is good against probably any ship that shows broadside. But once the 2 cruisers are dead, the DPM will be very low, can't cap because concealment bad, large, and also french DDs are arguably better because French engine boost, very good HE, French also have Reload Boost just like the new DDs, and French has damage saturation reduction. Only thing better for new DDs is the German Hydro, "decent" AA with DFAA, better AP shells, and probably IFHE default.

The current German DD line has some of the characteristics of the future new German DDs, but also have good concealment, smoke, ability to sneak up on unaware DDs in smoke and hydro. etc.

Compare the info already provided to the rest of the ships, and the rest of the meta.

As always, this is my first impression with the info provided so far, we may get further details soon.

Edited by ___Sakura
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10 minutes ago, Shigure said:

I was under the impression we were getting Italian BBs next. *confusion intensifies* 

I am, however, pleased to see more DDs...especially a line that blurs the line between DDs and CLs. Of course people are still going to scream at them to cap and such...*sigh*

I think that this video was talking about things that were further out, whereas the Italian BBs will be coming very soon.

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14 minutes ago, Shigure said:

I was under the impression we were getting Italian BBs next. *confusion intensifies* 

I am, however, pleased to see more DDs...especially a line that blurs the line between DDs and CLs. Of course people are still going to scream at them to cap and such...*sigh*

Remember italian BBs were announced during October last year. We get italian BBs, then this German DD split line.

On the other hand, will they move ships from the current line to the new one? This new line is said to have only 150mm guns. Depending on this, it will make the event more interesting.

Edited by hanesco

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4 minutes ago, hanesco said:

Remember italian BBs were announced during October last year. We get italian BBs, then this German DD split line.

On the other hand, will they move ships from the current line to the new one? This new line is said to have only 150mm guns. Depending on this, it will make the event more interesting.

I think they will pull the 150 option like they did with the Conqueror when the Thunderer came out.

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1 minute ago, ___Sakura said:

The line will be a failure with the info provided so far.

 The line will totally rely on the 2 light cruisers on the enemy team showing broadside, sure the AP is good against probably any ship that shows broadside. But once the 2 cruisers are dead, the DPM will be very low, can't cap because concealment bad, large, and also french DDs are arguably better because French engine boost, very good HE, French also have Reload Boost just like the new DDs, and French has damage saturation reduction. Only thing better for new DDs is the German Hydro, "decent" AA with DFAA, better AP shells, and probably IFHE default.

The current German DD line has some of the characteristics of the future new German DDs, but also have good concealment, smoke, ability to stealth hydro if concealment speced properly for Z-52, etc.

Compare the info already provided to the rest of the ships, and the rest of the meta.

As always, this is my first impression with the info provided so far, we may get further details soon.

I'm very tempted to agree with your, Sakura.

These are basically gunboat DDs, and yet they get no smoke.  OK, the French are smokeless gunboat DDs, but they also have very high speed and excellent range on their guns, so they can make it  work.  But  what do these heavy German DDs have going for them defensively?  We already know that they don't have smoke.  And there's been no comment about speed.

Another thing is that I don't expect them to have good DD, in large part because their main guns are too large to be dual purpose.

It was also mentioned in the video that these things would have bad HE.  If true, the AP had better be pretty outstanding.   But even if it is, my experience with the excellent AP from the Minotaur is that it's still very situational.  And if you don't have something close to a broadside, even Mino AP is going to bounce a lot.

Lastly, there was no mention of torpedoes for these gunboats which makes me think that we might be looking at torps like those on the Z-35 or German cruisers (i.e. 6 km).

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2 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

I think they will pull the 150 option like they did with the Conqueror when the Thunderer came out.

Be a shame honestly, i want the 150 on the Z23 for COOP and a DD line without smoke for COOP doesnt really work for me.

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3 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

I think I mighta beat the dev blog, but the Waterline this morning had some cool info on the new line, and the new dockyard event. 

This line features 150mm guns, has no smoke, and is designed to take on light cruisers. The dockyard event features a German/French DD hybrid with a reload booster *which has me interested* but I'm skeptical how these ships will perform with 150mm guns, do they reload fast enough to make me want to get into a fight with a high dpm light cruiser? How will they stack up to woost and mino? 

Watch from 2minute mark to 4minute mark.

https://youtu.be/vQpnA1MWA0w

Feel free to leave your feedback here: 

 

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1 hour ago, ___Sakura said:

The line will be a failure with the info provided so far.

 The line will totally rely on the 2 light cruisers on the enemy team showing broadside, sure the AP is good against probably any ship that shows broadside. But once the 2 cruisers are dead, the DPM will be very low, can't cap because concealment bad, large, and also french DDs are arguably better because French engine boost, very good HE, French also have Reload Boost just like the new DDs, and French has damage saturation reduction. Only thing better for new DDs is the German Hydro, "decent" AA with DFAA, better AP shells, and probably IFHE default.

The current German DD line has some of the characteristics of the future new German DDs, but also have good concealment, smoke, ability to stealth hydro if concealment speced properly for Z-52, etc.

Compare the info already provided to the rest of the ships, and the rest of the meta.

As always, this is my first impression with the info provided so far, we may get further details soon.

It needed the same boost on Smaland.

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According to the Google, ZF2 will be a captured French Le Hardi class destroyer operating under a German ensign. I’ll be curious to see what changes that WG makes to the ship to reflect the theoretical completed German refit.

Edit: Apparently the ship will mount 5 German 127mm guns (one dual turret fore, three single turrets aft), and will carry two quad racks of torpedoes. 

Edited by SkaerKrow

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Here are screenshots of the models shown in Waterline (T7 Z-31, T8 GJM, T9 FS, T10 Elbing, not sure why they’re out of order in my post)

75F87231-FC48-406D-8F61-F5B222298524.jpeg

C072079C-E2F1-48F8-9FAA-C3E7464F927C.jpeg

4F9C7460-5FAE-42D1-AD20-4289FF97AFC7.jpeg

43869F82-FF30-47F7-B71F-B65FA88D30EB.jpeg

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I'm reaaaaaaaal curious what the reload/range/detect will look like for these boats.

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20 minutes ago, gebert906 said:

Here are screenshots of the models shown in Waterline (T7 Z-31, T8 GJM, T9 FS, T10 Elbing, not sure why they’re out of order in my post)

75F87231-FC48-406D-8F61-F5B222298524.jpeg

C072079C-E2F1-48F8-9FAA-C3E7464F927C.jpeg

4F9C7460-5FAE-42D1-AD20-4289FF97AFC7.jpeg

43869F82-FF30-47F7-B71F-B65FA88D30EB.jpeg

Curious as to why they didn't follow the 'Z' naming formula the rest of German DDs were given in the mid/late war era.

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42 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Curious as to why they didn't follow the 'Z' naming formula the rest of German DDs were given in the mid/late war era.

Probable Post-War designs?

2 hours ago, Crucis said:

I'm very tempted to agree with your, Sakura.

These are basically gunboat DDs, and yet they get no smoke.  OK, the French are smokeless gunboat DDs, but they also have very high speed and excellent range on their guns, so they can make it  work.  But  what do these heavy German DDs have going for them defensively?  We already know that they don't have smoke.  And there's been no comment about speed.

Another thing is that I don't expect them to have good DD, in large part because their main guns are too large to be dual purpose.

It was also mentioned in the video that these things would have bad HE.  If true, the AP had better be pretty outstanding.   But even if it is, my experience with the excellent AP from the Minotaur is that it's still very situational.  And if you don't have something close to a broadside, even Mino AP is going to bounce a lot.

Lastly, there was no mention of torpedoes for these gunboats which makes me think that we might be looking at torps like those on the Z-35 or German cruisers (i.e. 6 km).

This is just guessing but if keeping in line with the rest of the German theme, they will have monster HP in exchange of less speed than the Frenchies and may or may not include the damage saturation or something equally silly. HE is bad as usual but has the 1/4 pen. German Hydro is probably a given and maybe extra gimmicks like having Radar too, even more if the designs are leaning towards Post-War. 

 

59 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

I'm reaaaaaaaal curious what the reload/range/detect will look like for these boats.

my bets... meh/good/awful

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4 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

I think I mighta beat the dev blog, but the Waterline this morning had some cool info on the new line, and the new dockyard event. 

This line features 150mm guns, has no smoke, and is designed to take on light cruisers. The dockyard event features a German/French DD hybrid with a reload booster *which has me interested* but I'm skeptical how these ships will perform with 150mm guns, do they reload fast enough to make me want to get into a fight with a high dpm light cruiser? How will they stack up to woost and mino? 

Watch from 2minute mark to 4minute mark.

https://youtu.be/vQpnA1MWA0w

Not sure how they are going to take on cl. They will need to have a British heal.

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1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

Curious as to why they didn't follow the 'Z' naming formula the rest of German DDs were given in the mid/late war era.

None of those ships were actually commissioned sadly, so they're only known by their design alphaneumerics. (The Felix Schultz for instance appears to be the Type 1938 A/Ac class of large destroyer that never got finished, Elbing (despite that name used for some torpedoboats) is the Spähkreuzer 1938. Though they were given hull designations starting with Z40 so again, why go with Elbing?)

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Well, if you think from a balancing perspective that these will be a total failure to start with...allow me to enlighten you from a Historical perspective.

Point One: Low DPM

This isn't strictly true. Perhaps with the Tier VI to VII this will be an issue, but given what we have seen with the screencaps, we can state with confidence that these new destroyers, from Tier VIII onwards will not be using the L/48 rifles like we see on the Ernst Gaede, Z-39, and Z-23, but will be using the L/55 SK C/28 guns that are commonly found on German Battleships as their secondary armament, as well as the primary armament of the ( VII ) Munchen. Additionally, given that they are receiving DFAA, we may end up, from Tier IX onwards, seeing the experimental version of the 15cm DP gun that was purportedly in development from 1944 onwards, but apparently was never tested. From a historical perspective, the RoF was only 8 RPM, but that was on the normal L/55 guns. If these are DP guns we're talking, we could be seeing RoF as high as 10 or even 12.5 RPM in some cases.

Point Two: Bad Concealment and Large Size and Poor mobility

Okay, yes, the first one will be a massive liability but I doubt it will be much worse than the French and the Soviet Gunships, and given what we saw with the Khabarovsk, which the Tier X ( Elbing? ) most closely resembles, there is a distinct possibility that these super DDs will end up receiving a Repair Party Consumable. But nevermind that, these destroyers are real heifers to begin with, with the Elbing, being a representative of the SP1938B type Spahkreuzer, weighing in at a honking 5,700 tons at full load. Input that into the given formula and we get...29,000 HP base, and if we're talking the C Version, you can add on another 2,000 tons to that and we end up with 30,000 HP base. Additionally, these ships boast fairly high mobility for how large they are, with the speed ( on average ) being 35.5 knots, and if they receive Engine Boost, that'll be pushing 40 knots. I wholly expect the turning to be horrid, however, given that they are German and they are extremely large, so I'll deduct points there.


As for my two cents on this: I've been waiting since I started playing the game for 150mm armed German DDs, and now we finally get them. Am I totally pleased...not really, since we don't know the stats. But am I satsified? Yes

-Shrayes

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Destroyers that can't fight destroyers? Genius.

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