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syp_twiz

why are the russian destroyers so bad?

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I've made it to the Gnevy, and i have to say i can't bring myself to play another match in Russian DD's to finish the lines.. 4km torps? why even have them? you can't get close enough to anything to even bother. I thought the usa BB split was bad, but sheesh.. these are unplayable. 

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2 minutes ago, syp_twiz said:

I've made it to the Gnevy, and i have to say i can't bring myself to play another match in Russian DD's to finish the lines.. 4km torps? why even have them? you can't get close enough to anything to even bother. I thought the usa BB split was bad, but sheesh.. these are unplayable. 

There are destroyers in this game whose primary armament is NOT torpedoes.

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Just now, desmo_2 said:

There are destroyers in this game whose primary armament is NOT torpedoes.

This ^

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Gnevy sure doesn't excell with guns that's for sure. 

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2 minutes ago, syp_twiz said:

Gnevy sure doesn't excell with guns that's for sure. 

are you kidding? watch a youtube video on soviet destroyers. Gnevny has the best dd guns tier for tier; unless your trying to brawl that is.

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They're harassers. They are among the fastest ships in the game and have really effective guns. The 4km torpedoes are only for the odd case where say a BB comes out from behind a island and you're on the other side to surprise him...

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9 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

There are destroyers in this game whose primary armament is NOT torpedoes.

You could argue the same for French DDs, but there in lies the point: French DDs power crept Soviet DDs.

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6 minutes ago, syp_twiz said:

I've made it to the Gnevy,

I spent a ton of game on gnevy and minsk, they were tough to play when I got to them. I feel they got a little better with captain skill points. But, I also feel the middle tiers of the line got power crept by the Euro and French destroyers.   

as stated above, they are gun boats. you will need to acquire another very different style of play (a very fun and adrenaline filled style) and forget holding on to any stat buffing you were looking to do for a couple of ships. 

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i'm just trying to get the steel out of the 8/9's lol i'd never play a russian DD on purpose. 

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Gnevny is a low point to be fair, formerly a none too impressive T5, uptiered without compensation beyond a bit of turret traverse to T6 and a pretty grim world to exist in. I reground her recently with very little enjoyment.

 

Overall though, use guns more, and torpedoes... infrequently. You have decent firepower, and good ballistics for a destroyer so you can farm the occasional citadel on cruisers with bad armor broadsiding at close range, or land hits reliably on red destroyers.

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Gnevy isn’t as bad as it use to be, but still pales to Aigle, Farragut, or T-61

Minsk is alright, but again, nothing special

Kiev is good, but nowhere near the monster she once was

Trashcan is fantastic, probably my favorite DD

Khaba has been powercrept but still decent

add in Grozovoi as a do just about everything DD and the only bad RU DD is probably Ogenvoi. Also, the only Soviet DDs that their primary armament are torpedoes are Ognevoi and Neustrashimy

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Gnevny objectively isn't that good, especially when you compare it to Gremmy, Anshan, Fushun that are practical clones of the ship, yet all enjoy distinct advantages over it.

However, Minsk, Kiev, Tashkent, Udaloi, Grozovoi are legit strong ships, especially if you go the AFT speed tank route. 

Udaloi's recent buffs have made it among the best tier IX tech tree DDs, and that's a hella competitive field.

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This ship line was designed pre-CV rework and had the luxury of being able to to run away if needed. With all the CV's at the tier you are playing it's strengths have been vastly negated.

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1 hour ago, syp_twiz said:

I've made it to the Gnevy, and i have to say i can't bring myself to play another match in Russian DD's to finish the lines.. 4km torps? why even have them? you can't get close enough to anything to even bother. I thought the usa BB split was bad, but sheesh.. these are unplayable. 

You don't play Russian DDs of that line for the torps, in most games you'll never use them. You put AFT on, and spam HE from range, while making yourself tough to hit.

For the past couple months or so, I've been grinding all the DD lines except the PA and Russian Ognevoi line. I found that you simply cannot play all lines the same, and expect to succeed.

With the original RU DDs, you're more a mini CL with smoke, and without a citadel, than a DD.

I will say though, that I found Gnevny kind of "meh". Minsk is a vast improvement IMO, bit again, not to be sued in typical DD fashion.

Edited by Skpstr

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1 hour ago, Usedcarjock said:

You could argue the same for French DDs, but there in lies the point: French DDs power crept Soviet DDs.

Not as much as you might think though.

The ability to smoke fire, combined with typical Russian ballistics, keeps them pretty useful IMO.

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2 hours ago, syp_twiz said:

4km torps? why even have them?

As others have noted, these are weapons of opportunity or desperation, and should not be your weapons of choice. The primary Soviet DD line is all about the guns - great ballistics, decent HE, and great AP that is surprising punchy for DD-caliber guns.

You need to keep your opponents at length and abuse your speed and the excellent ballistics of your guns. Unlike other DDs, your first 4-pt skill should be AFT rather than CE. HE is your bread and butter, but don’t be afraid to switch to AP after you set your target on fire to farm broadside cruisers and BB superstructures.

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2 hours ago, syp_twiz said:

4km torps? why even have them? you can't get close enough to anything to even bother.

They are smoke torpedoes.  Use them when in smoke.

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3 hours ago, Wombatmetal said:

Think of them as mini cruisers.

I tried that and got yelled at. A lot.

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4 minutes ago, Whiskey_Rebel said:

I tried that and got yelled at. A lot.

I feel your pain - just got to the Tier 9 Russian DD (Tashkent), and only been playing it a bit in Coop while i train the commander out of "retraining" and at least get the first hull before randoms.  And at least half the games (in Coop!!!) someone comments that I'm not capping or rushing in against destroyers with 1.5-2km better concealment....

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14 minutes ago, Whiskey_Rebel said:

I tried that and got yelled at. A lot.

I recall one memorable game in my Minsk where a friendly Sovetsky Soyuz that insisted on pushing into a force that outnumbered us two to one raged at me in chat because I wasn’t up front trying to aggressively spot the red Akizuki that was screening their force. I politely told him to shove it because doing so would be suicide (not only did the DD outspot and outgun me, he also had lots of friends) and to focus on playing his own ship effectively. He proceeded to say all sorts of nasty things about me and how I needed to “learn to play my ship.” We ended up losing, but I lived longer and out-scored this pleasant individual.

TLDR: Most of the players making these kind of comments have no idea what they are talking about and would contribute more to the team by being more concerned with their own play. Just ignore these individuals and play to your ship’s strengths.

Edited by Nevermore135
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5 minutes ago, Landtuber said:

I feel your pain - just got to the Tier 9 Russian DD (Tashkent), and only been playing it a bit in Coop while i train the commander out of "retraining" and at least get the first hull before randoms.  And at least half the games (in Coop!!!) someone comments that I'm not capping or rushing in against destroyers with 1.5-2km better concealment....

My issue is (on Kiev currently) when there's only 1-2 DDs per team. I feel obligated to cap lol.

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3 minutes ago, Landtuber said:

I feel your pain - just got to the Tier 9 Russian DD (Tashkent), and only been playing it a bit in Coop while i train the commander out of "retraining" and at least get the first hull before randoms.  And at least half the games (in Coop!!!) someone comments that I'm not capping or rushing in against destroyers with 1.5-2km better concealment....

 

1 minute ago, Nevermore135 said:

TLDR: Most of the players making these kind of comments have no idea what they are talking about and would contribute more to the team by being more concerned with their own play. Just ignore these individuals and play to your ship’s strengths.

Yeah it was early in my WoWS career, so there was some overall newbishness, in addition to the general challenges of gunboating. But there's not much patience in randoms for anything other than fast capping and spotting.

As a cruiser main, I'm now the complainer. I'll admit to more happily supporting a stealthy DD that will contest caps early and needs the radar and gun support. You never really know how an RU DD is going to play the cap.

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15 minutes ago, Whiskey_Rebel said:

I tried that and got yelled at. A lot.

Been there!  And...I agree with:

2 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

TLDR: Most of the players making these kind of comments have no idea what they are talking about and would contribute more to the team by being more concerned with their own play. Just ignore these individuals and play to your ship’s strengths.

I play DDs a lot and the ignorance of the differences of the DD line can be staggering. I can't remember all the times I have yelled at for not laying smoke as I ground my up the new Euro DDs (none have smoke). Or told that I should fire my guns as a stealthily IJN torp boat WHILE forward open water spotting ( and I do use my gun when playing IGN torp boats - but selectively).  The list goes on.

There is a reason I play each class at least a bit. 

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