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BrushWolf

Why did the Hood blow up?

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Drachinfel's latest video goes into some detail about why the Hood blew up.

 

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Someone posted this earlier, but somehow the thread vanished? I really have no idea.

Watched half of it here, then the rest on YT.

Nice vid, in any case.

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6 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Someone posted this earlier, but somehow the thread vanished? I really have no idea.

Watched half of it here, then the rest on YT.

Nice vid, in any case.

Drachinfel is a treasure for naval history.

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Channel 4 did a special about the ship back a few years ago. There were animations and a dive was done down to the wreck for the first time.

It was then that the extent of damage was observed.

It left a few questions. Explosion or implosion? Mostly due to the state of the wreck.

They talked about this magazines and a shell hit but I think at that time, they went with the shell coming down near turret 3 and the magazine blew out and went Forward.

But this video adds more ideas for sure. I hadn't thought of the exposed trough part when Hood is at full speed.

In game, most of the BBs that move fast tend to move up and down and I time my shots to it so I get a good pen.

I wait for it to be at its lowest so when I fire, it's at the highest point above water.

Any shell below the paint line you get in is really good.

Because Battleships were built to have belting at waterline thickest only and it starts to get thinner below that painted line.

In terms of design, it would be wasteful otherwise.

But that is the inherent weakness of high speed Battleships.

Slow movers with torpedo blisters are a whole different animal. LOL

 

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Good video.  Bismarck threw a lot of shells at Hood.  The more shells you throw -- the luckier you get.

So....   When do we get torpedoes on the Hood ???   Come on WG..  You put them on your paper battleships.  Why not the real ones?

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11 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

Good video.  Bismarck threw a lot of shells at Hood.  The more shells you throw -- the luckier you get.

So....   When do we get torpedoes on the Hood ???   Come on WG..  You put them on your paper battleships.  Why not the real ones?

Yep and it was a magic bb as I have said for years. The shell hit in the one small spot where it could penetrate and do extreme damage.

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26 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Yep and it was a magic bb as I have said for years. The shell hit in the one small spot where it could penetrate and do extreme damage.

So maybe there IS some merit to the old US Standard battleship speed of 20 Knots...

All Hood had to do was sllllooooowwwwww   Doooowwwwwnnnnn...  It got caught YOLOing.

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2 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

So maybe there IS some merit to the old US Standard battleship speed of 20 Knots...

All Hood had to do was sllllooooowwwwww   Doooowwwwwnnnnn...  It got caught YOLOing.

If anything, she wasn't fast enough because didn't intercept Bismarck properly and had to try and catch up.

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54 minutes ago, Sventex said:

If anything, she wasn't fast enough because didn't intercept Bismarck properly and had to try and catch up.

Actually, Hood should have kept her range.  Bismarck and PE was cornered 3 ways.  Ice packs on one side, Norfolk and Suffolk behind, and Hood/POW on the other side.
There is only two reasons to close in, surprise (nope), and if running low on ammo to make each shot count.  If it's the second reason then the magazines would be empty enough anyway.

As opposed to the US battle line at Surigao Straits.  After a week of bombarding shore installations, they were low on everything - especially AP rounds.
If they came up against that IJN battle line, they would be throwing spitballs after 20 minutes of firing.  On the bright side, there would be no major US BB detonations either.
Even if they faced BOTH the Fuso and Yamashiro, several US battleships would need to make an ammo run (away).  Either that or spam HE.

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7 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Actually, Hood should have kept her range.  Bismarck and PE was cornered 3 ways.  Ice packs on one side, Norfolk and Suffolk behind, and Hood/POW on the other side.
There is only two reasons to close in, surprise (nope), and if running low on ammo to make each shot count.  If it's the second reason then the magazines would be empty enough anyway.

As opposed to the US battle line at Surigao Straits.  After a week of bombarding shore installations, they were low on everything - especially AP rounds.
If they came up against that IJN battle line, they would be throwing spitballs after 20 minutes of firing.  On the bright side, there would be no major US BB detonations either.
Even if they faced BOTH the Fuso and Yamashiro, several US battleships would need to make an ammo run (away).  Either that or spam HE.

Wasn't HMS Hood's big weakness her thin deck armor?  She had to get closer for her armor to be effective.  But they botched the interception and Bismarck was already almost away so they had to chase.

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3 minutes ago, Sventex said:

Wasn't HMS Hood's big weakness her thin deck armor?  She had to get closer for her armor to be effective.  But they botched the interception and Bismarck was already almost away so they had to chase.

Watch the video.  Speed kills.

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1 minute ago, AVR_Project said:

Watch the video.  Speed kills.

Yeah, about the first thing he says in the video is that HMS Hood had weak deck armor.

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4 minutes ago, Sventex said:

Yeah, about the first thing he says in the video is that HMS Hood had weak deck armor.

I don't want to spoil the surprise ending.

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Just now, AVR_Project said:

I don't want to spoil the surprise ending.

I've already seen the video.  That doesn't change the fact that HMS Hood needed to close the distance for her armor to be effective against Bismarck because she was vulnerable to plunging shells.

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1 hour ago, Sventex said:

I've already seen the video.  That doesn't change the fact that HMS Hood needed to close the distance for her armor to be effective against Bismarck because she was vulnerable to plunging shells.

It may be a factor, but not the only one. If you look at Matapan and when RN finally sink the Bismark, the RN has a preference for closing the distance if the circumstances permit it. The Hood was turning to port to bring X and Y turrets to bear at around 15,000 yrds.

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I guess they will need to update the 'From the bottom' camo for the Hood.
Maybe they can add torpedo tubes at the same time.

 

HoodHit.jpg

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On 12/17/2020 at 7:33 PM, AVR_Project said:

Actually, Hood should have kept her range.  Bismarck and PE was cornered 3 ways.  Ice packs on one side, Norfolk and Suffolk behind, and Hood/POW on the other side.
There is only two reasons to close in, surprise (nope), and if running low on ammo to make each shot count.  If it's the second reason then the magazines would be empty enough anyway.

As opposed to the US battle line at Surigao Straits.  After a week of bombarding shore installations, they were low on everything - especially AP rounds.
If they came up against that IJN battle line, they would be throwing spitballs after 20 minutes of firing.  On the bright side, there would be no major US BB detonations either.
Even if they faced BOTH the Fuso and Yamashiro, several US battleships would need to make an ammo run (away).  Either that or spam HE.

Made me curious, I had forgotten what ammo the old BB's had left:

The US ships at Surigao had, according to NavWeaps:

WeeVee: 375 rounds.  200 AP

Maryland:  685 rounds.  240 AP

California: 318 rounds. 240 AP

Tennessee:  664 rounds. 396 AP

Mississippi: 744 rounds. 201 AP

Pennsylvania: 453 rounds. 360 AP

These are either inaccurate, or rounded, since WeeVee's report states she shot 89 AP and 4 HC shells and had 110 left, but the #'s are close. 

So yeah, there was enough AP shells between them all to do the job, but nothing left over if there were actually 2 healthy IJN Battleships to fight.

Then again, WeeVee hit on her first salvo at over 12 miles in the dark, so maybe they didn't need many shells at that point in the war? 

From the ship's report:
 

  1. (c) The gun fire from this vessel was very effective. There were possible and probable hits in all salvos. Three pronounced flareups were observed on the target at the splash time of our 1st, 2nd, and 6th salvos. The 4th salvo seemed to be particularly concentrated on the target. The MK 8 radar operators had no difficulty in identifying or spotting our salvos. Splashes from other ships were observed but did not interfere except on the 5th salvo. It was possible to distinguish between our own and other ship's salvos by the size of the individual splashes.

 

Edited by JuiceEFruit
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On 12/17/2020 at 7:55 PM, Sventex said:

I've already seen the video.  That doesn't change the fact that HMS Hood needed to close the distance for her armor to be effective against Bismarck because she was vulnerable to plunging shells.

True, but she was only 10 or less miles away when she turned and was hit.  That's WAY inside any "plunging fire" ranges.  The shell that blew her up was not plunging at all.  A Biz shell at that distance would be descending at roughly 12.4 degrees.  That's pretty flat.  
 

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8 minutes ago, JuiceEFruit said:

True, but she was only 10 or less miles away when she turned and was hit.  That's WAY inside any "plunging fire" ranges.  The shell that blew her up was not plunging at all.  A Biz shell at that distance would be descending at roughly 12.4 degrees.  That's pretty flat.  
 

Which is why I said HMS Hood needed to close the distance for her armor to be effective.  If she kept her distance instead of doing what she did, her deck armor would be problem.

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On 12/17/2020 at 6:33 PM, AVR_Project said:

Actually, Hood should have kept her range.  Bismarck and PE was cornered 3 ways.  Ice packs on one side, Norfolk and Suffolk behind, and Hood/POW on the other side.
There is only two reasons to close in, surprise (nope), and if running low on ammo to make each shot count.  If it's the second reason then the magazines would be empty enough anyway.

As opposed to the US battle line at Surigao Straits.  After a week of bombarding shore installations, they were low on everything - especially AP rounds.
If they came up against that IJN battle line, they would be throwing spitballs after 20 minutes of firing.  On the bright side, there would be no major US BB detonations either.
Even if they faced BOTH the Fuso and Yamashiro, several US battleships would need to make an ammo run (away).  Either that or spam HE.

norfolk and suffolk wouldn't have been much of a threat to Bismarck. because the county class had fairly pathetic armor at only 4.5inches thick in the belt   bismarcks secondary weapons alone would be enough to rip them apart. if the captain of Bismarck truly felt his ship was cornered he could have turned around and easily broken through the weakest of the three obstacles and escaped back to german controlled waters long enough for the english to break off chase and return to where they were assigned. 

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9 hours ago, JuiceEFruit said:

Made me curious, I had forgotten what ammo the old BB's had left:

The US ships at Surigao had, according to NavWeaps:

WeeVee: 375 rounds.  200 AP

Maryland:  685 rounds.  240 AP

California: 318 rounds. 240 AP

Tennessee:  664 rounds. 396 AP

Mississippi: 744 rounds. 201 AP

Pennsylvania: 453 rounds. 360 AP

These are either inaccurate, or rounded, since WeeVee's report states she shot 89 AP and 4 HC shells and had 110 left, but the #'s are close. 

So yeah, there was enough AP shells between them all to do the job, but nothing left over if there were actually 2 healthy IJN Battleships to fight.

Then again, WeeVee hit on her first salvo at over 12 miles in the dark, so maybe they didn't need many shells at that point in the war? 

From the ship's report:
 

  1. (c) The gun fire from this vessel was very effective. There were possible and probable hits in all salvos. Three pronounced flareups were observed on the target at the splash time of our 1st, 2nd, and 6th salvos. The 4th salvo seemed to be particularly concentrated on the target. The MK 8 radar operators had no difficulty in identifying or spotting our salvos. Splashes from other ships were observed but did not interfere except on the 5th salvo. It was possible to distinguish between our own and other ship's salvos by the size of the individual splashes.

 

Although highly publicized as the 'Last Battleship Battle in the world'......
The Yamashiro was already crippled by multiple torpedo strikes and hits from the destroyer wave.  2 out of 6 turrets were out due to flooding the magazines.
All the US battleship/cruiser line did was complicate Damage Control and hit our own destroyers.  The Yamashiro was doomed to sink anyway.

Despite that, the Yamashiro actually scored a few hits on the US cruiser line, and beat the snot out of a couple destroyers.
I find that impressive for what it was facing.

In the short engagement at Denmark Straits, the Bismarck fired 93 - 15" AP shells at Hood and POW.  This was a very high rate of fire that was over in (5:55-6:04)   !!  NINE minutes.

And another thought..  The Pennsylvania, Mississippi, and Maryland Fire Control Systems were so old, they were only fit for bulk shore bombardment.  Those 14" guns were so worn out from constant use, they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn -- from the INSIDE.  USS Pennsylvania was called 'Old Falling Apart' by its crew.
It's not like they could easily move shells from one boat to the other.  If the WV, Tennessee, and California ran out of shells...  the US was screwed.

Edited by AVR_Project
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