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Weapon_of_Proliferation

Does WG have the 'player capital' to burn at this point?

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You are all familiar with the terms 'political capital' and 'financial capital'

My question is: Does WoWS have enough draw to pull in new,  paying, customers to offset those of us who are at our whits end?

With each year, competition increases, and with so many unpopular changes lately  so does apathy.

Is it that they think submarines will save their financial decline after they've driven away so many of their dedicated player base?

Is there some untapped source of new players that can accomplish this turn over?

Where will they be coming from, and why?

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5 minutes ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

My question is: Does WoWS have enough draw to pull in new,  paying, customers to offset those of us who are at our whits end?

Exactly.  I can't help but to think their actions are from due to extreme desperation; that or their spreadsheets are telling them the game only has a few years left, so they must extract as much as they can.  Or maybe they really enjoy reading posts of P-O'ed customers??? :Smile_facepalm:

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25 minutes ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

Does WoWS have enough draw to pull in new,  paying, customers to offset those of us who are at our whits end?

Yes, absolutely. The game is seeing more players than ever since COVID-19. Sure WG has made some bad moves recently, however there are been bad moves before and that hasn't stopped some of the oldest members of the community (like me) from playing. 

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38 minutes ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

With each year, competition increases, and with so many unpopular changes lately  so does apathy.

If you know of a game that does this kind of naval warfare anywhere near the scale and quality as WOWS let me know, I'm always  interested in new good games. But as far as I know WOWS is pretty much it in this category.

On new players, yes. Player numbers are remained about constant, so either not as many people are leaving as some like to say or there are plenty of new players joining. And WG has been pretty focused on pulling new people into the game and getting them up to higher tiers pretty quick. So yes, they have plenty of players. I also suspect that despite the constant complaints and threats of leaving relatively few people actually leave for good.

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Old players will have seen the changes, the new. Not so much. Ergo, if they made an account tomorrow.  A high chance that they will just enjoy from that point onwards.  Specially, since the general majority will not read nor partake on the forums/Reddit/etc to 'hear the tales of the past'.

It's a revolution, a cycle.  It will not change in that aspect.  New players will dump money, however small or large.  The net effect is that the company actions will have been justified on the long run.

 

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1 hour ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

You are all familiar with the terms 'political capital' and 'financial capital'

My question is: Does WoWS have enough draw to pull in new,  paying, customers to offset those of us who are at our whits end?

With each year, competition increases, and with so many unpopular changes lately  so does apathy.

Is it that they think submarines will save their financial decline after they've driven away so many of their dedicated player base?

Is there some untapped source of new players that can accomplish this turn over?

Where will they be coming from, and why?

I recall reading a post like this 4 years ago. Then 3....2....1...etc.   

Zoup posted a pretty timely video about this subject (to include citing NA numbers increasing): 

If you are not happy, you should leave or at least take a break.  I am not saying this as a smart donkey either - it is just a simple solution that could have save pages of forums and players' sanity.  

There is a huge difference between providing constructive criticism and the constant desire for failure (bordering on hatred) for the game or company.  OP, I appreciate your calmly laid out questions so don't take this personally.

As Zoup points out, many players threaten to leave and don't, or if they do they come back quickly just as salty.  The forums are then awash in a vocal minority having a WG bashing party for (insert your reason).  

More of a focus on individual choice should be practiced.  Puerto Rico event sucked?  Well don't do it, or just complete a few steps and take the coal/signals etc.  The new patch really gets you angry even though every other player has the same update?  Take a break.  Save the forums and your sanity.  

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1 hour ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

You are all familiar with the terms 'political capital' and 'financial capital'

My question is: Does WoWS have enough draw to pull in new,  paying, customers to offset those of us who are at our whits end?

With each year, competition increases, and with so many unpopular changes lately  so does apathy.

Is it that they think submarines will save their financial decline after they've driven away so many of their dedicated player base?

Is there some untapped source of new players that can accomplish this turn over?

Where will they be coming from, and why?

So... When are you quitting? Do they even need to replace you as a player?

3% of the playerbase is on this forum. Of those, 1% post regularly. Do you think that the vast majority of the playerbase you never hear from cares enough to change their playing habits. Have you, who is energized by these issues?

I don't think they have the problem you think they have.

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28 minutes ago, mpwardawg said:

I recall reading a post like this 4 years ago. Then 3....2....1...etc.   

Zoup posted a pretty timely video about this subject (to include citing NA numbers increasing): 

If you are not happy, you should leave or at least take a break.  I am not saying this as a smart donkey either - it is just a simple solution that could have save pages of forums and players' sanity.  

There is a huge difference between providing constructive criticism and the constant desire for failure (bordering on hatred) for the game or company.  OP, I appreciate your calmly laid out questions so don't take this personally.

As Zoup points out, many players threaten to leave and don't, or if they do they come back quickly just as salty.  The forums are then awash in a vocal minority having a WG bashing party for (insert your reason).  

More of a focus on individual choice should be practiced.  Puerto Rico event sucked?  Well don't do it, or just complete a few steps and take the coal/signals etc.  The new patch really gets you angry even though every other player has the same update?  Take a break.  Save the forums and your sanity.  

I think you nailed it. The forum is often an echo chamber of negative reactions, which makes it seem like there are more angry people than there really are. 

For years now I have seen people declaring the game is dead, and WG is just looking to wring a few more dollars out of it. Invariably the next update sees the same people making the declarations again...  Inevitably they will be right, but today is not that day. 

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9 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

I think you nailed it. The forum is often an echo chamber of negative reactions, which makes it seem like there are more angry people than there really are. 

For years now I have seen people declaring the game is dead, and WG is just looking to wring a few more dollars out of it. Invariably the next update sees the same people making the declarations again...  Inevitably they will be right, but today is not that day. 

You are welcome to find me saying the game is 'dead' or any other similar sentiment, I don't believe that such thing exists. Each of us are individuals with their own breaking point.

It just happens that my breaking point lines up with a lot of alpha testers, clan leaders, community contributors, and general veteran players, and not with people that show up out of the blue after weeks of absence just to defend WG with the uncanny timing of a paid stooge.

Not pointing any fingers in this thread particularly, at least not yet, but sure, that also is happening as well here on the forums today.

 

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2 minutes ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

You are welcome to find me saying the game is 'dead' or any other similar sentiment, I don't believe that such thing exists. Each of us are individuals with their own breaking point.

It just happens that my breaking point lines up with a lot of alpha testers, clan leaders, community contributors, and general veteran players, and not with people that show up out of the blue after weeks of absence just to defend WG with the uncanny timing of a paid stooge.

Not pointing any fingers in this thread particularly, at least not yet, but sure, that also is happening as well here on the forums today.

 

To be clear I wasn't referencing you personally in that comment. It is a recurring theme from many of the dissatisfied posters.  

As for people taking weeks off, who knows how their personal lives limit game play. When I was posted to ship I would take months off at a time while deployed, not because I hated WoWs, but because I was too busy playing real WoWs. 

If you've reached a breaking point that is unfortunate, but it is not necessarily indicative of a lack of "player capital" overall. 

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

If you know of a game that does this kind of naval warfare anywhere near the scale and quality as WOWS let me know, I'm always  interested in new good games.

Give Battlestations: Pacific a try.

 

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19 minutes ago, ProfessorLumpy said:

So... When are you quitting? Do they even need to replace you as a player?

3% of the playerbase is on this forum. Of those, 1% post regularly. Do you think that the vast majority of the playerbase you never hear from cares enough to change their playing habits. Have you, who is energized by these issues?

I don't think they have the problem you think they have.

Dude, for what ive spent, they would need twenty.

This alone, ALONE, gives me the right to 'grief on the forums that nobody reads'.

Am I supposed to call my mother and complain to her?

What other options to I have to voice my opinion on these untested changes?

Do I need to ask everybody's permission first?

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

If you know of a game that does this kind of naval warfare anywhere near the scale and quality as WOWS let me know, I'm always  interested in new good games. But as far as I know WOWS is pretty much it in this category.

On new players, yes. Player numbers are remained about constant, so either not as many people are leaving as some like to say or there are plenty of new players joining. And WG has been pretty focused on pulling new people into the game and getting them up to higher tiers pretty quick. So yes, they have plenty of players. I also suspect that despite the constant complaints and threats of leaving relatively few people actually leave for good.

AND..........that is the entire problem:  a unique IP and a small niche market = disasters.....   They grow complacent and then, when threatened with competition from technology changes, they abandon what they started and revert to gimmicks and cash grabs "before the technology eliminates their small niche and it's content...."   There are several games that made it to "mature game status" and then, simply did what this game is doing right now !!!  The exact same things.

Track the latest "oops!" Mechwarrior Online"....  If you lay that game's timeline next to this game's timeline, you see some strange coincidences and very similar processes....  MWO is a ghost town and last weekend, the owners finally, after two years of being a ghost town, decided to have a "town Hall..."   It was so bad, that corporation had to create a spin off single player game that...........really didn't capture anyone's interest.  This game is going to have some "issues" in the near future if they implement the CPT Rebork.    Many are furious from WoTs and that debacle and now, again in WoWs???  No.

The numbers aren't what we think they are.  A very large segment retired after Update 8.0 and the PR....  Didn't uninstall; simply, retired.  I've been trying to recruit several of them back.............and, this Rebork will drive them off, never to return....

Remember, we are in a pandemic.........so, the numbers are artificial.

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12 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

AND..........that is the entire problem:  a unique IP and a small niche market = disasters.....   They grow complacent and then, when threatened with competition from technology changes, they abandon what they started and revert to gimmicks and cash grabs "before the technology eliminates their small niche and it's content...."   There are several games that made it to "mature game status" and then, simply did what this game is doing right now !!!  The exact same things.

Track the latest "oops!" Mechwarrior Online"....  If you lay that game's timeline next to this game's timeline, you see some strange coincidences and very similar processes....  MWO is a ghost town and last weekend, the owners finally, after two years of being a ghost town, decided to have a "town Hall..."   It was so bad, that corporation had to create a spin off single player game that...........really didn't capture anyone's interest.  This game is going to have some "issues" in the near future if they implement the CPT Rebork.    Many are furious from WoTs and that debacle and now, again in WoWs???  No.

The numbers aren't what we think they are.  A very large segment retired after Update 8.0 and the PR....  Didn't uninstall; simply, retired.  I've been trying to recruit several of them back.............and, this Rebork will drive them off, never to return....

Remember, we are in a pandemic.........so, the numbers are artificial.

We're in a pandemic, going into winter and the holidays, and yet players numbers aren't HUGELY up, they're just sort of vaguely positive at most.  

Six months from now, in the start of summer, if vaccine and warmer weather have the numbers way down and restrictions eased and people in a rush to get out, to do things, and to look for work again... and WG has put WOWS through the wringer with past debacles and lingering unfixed problems, the Skill Rebork, and then submarines...  where are player numbers going to be? 

 

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2 hours ago, ObnoxiousPotato said:

Exactly.  I can't help but to think their actions are from due to extreme desperation; that or their spreadsheets are telling them the game only has a few years left, so they must extract as much as they can.  Or maybe they really enjoy reading posts of P-O'ed customers??? :Smile_facepalm:

A serious question for everyone here:

I understand the road WG took with WoT, but they had 2 other games to fall back on when WoT went completely toxic (guessing from what I have been reading aqbout WoT lately).  WoWps doesn't seem to be as popular as WoT or WoWs.  So:

Why would WG shoot themselves in their last foot to go the same road with WoWs?  It's not like they have another game to keep them going>  Or am I misreading the situation?  Or is there just more money for them in the long run if these games just become shoot em up arcade stuff?  It seems to me that this last path is a faster death because the present great shoot em up is replaced completely by the nexts great shoot em up.  This is THEIR death warrant, not ours.

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2 hours ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

You are all familiar with the terms 'political capital' and 'financial capital'

My question is: Does WoWS have enough draw to pull in new,  paying, customers to offset those of us who are at our whits end?

With each year, competition increases, and with so many unpopular changes lately  so does apathy.

Is it that they think submarines will save their financial decline after they've driven away so many of their dedicated player base?

Is there some untapped source of new players that can accomplish this turn over?

Where will they be coming from, and why?

So far it seems that they do.

New players are aging into the game all the time. My 10 year old nephew just started and is having a ton of fun.

It is also very difficult to tell what the overall population feels since for most of us we only have the forums and well..... you are not likely to find a more opinionated bunch both positive and negative than you will on a gaming forum. So our perceptions are normally pretty far off. 

Looking at the game thru my nephews eyes he is having to much fun to understand how "bad" the game is lol.

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2 minutes ago, kyesac said:

A serious question for everyone here:

I understand the road WG took with WoT, but they had 2 other games to fall back on when WoT went completely toxic (guessing from what I have been reading aqbout WoT lately).  WoWps doesn't seem to be as popular as WoT or WoWs.  So:

Why would WG shoot themselves in their last foot to go the same road with WoWs?  It's not like they have another game to keep them going>  Or am I misreading the situation?  Or is there just more money for them in the long run if these games just become shoot em up arcade stuff?  It seems to me that this last path is a faster death because the present great shoot em up is replaced completely by the nexts great shoot em up.  This is THEIR death warrant, not ours.

World of Warplanes was hard, but really exciting.

Many of the events and campaigns started at tier IV, a place where many powerful premiums and tech tree planes existed.

What this lead to was the experienced players, with more drive than taste, would trounce people in tier IV, which wasn't that hard to attain, time wise.

So this mean't that tier IV was a crucible, requiring 500-1000 games to begin to be able to counter the three plane flights of top players.

However,  once you got past this steep learning curve, the game was a riot, where a single player *could* have a substantial contribution to victory, if proper strategy was ascertained and appropriate tactics utilized. It made my heart race to dangerous levels, and few video games, if any, have ever had that effect.

It was the 2.0 rework that removed flight model differences between the planes that gave them all unique, historically accurate flavor, added a heavy-handed aim-assist mechanism that was frankly insulting for anybody with any pride. On top of this, Bombers were made into the Queens of the Sky, but wait! All bombers also happened to be premium!

Later, they made further changes to all planes, including $$ premiums, that required you to re-grind those as well to get your old maximum performance.

It was at this point even the new ADD playerbase abandoned it, and the older players that left with 2.0, like me, ... we had already made the painful decision not to accept 2.0, let alone 2.1

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29 minutes ago, kyesac said:

A serious question for everyone here:

I understand the road WG took with WoT, but they had 2 other games to fall back on when WoT went completely toxic (guessing from what I have been reading aqbout WoT lately).  WoWps doesn't seem to be as popular as WoT or WoWs.  So:

Why would WG shoot themselves in their last foot to go the same road with WoWs?  It's not like they have another game to keep them going>  Or am I misreading the situation?  Or is there just more money for them in the long run if these games just become shoot em up arcade stuff?  It seems to me that this last path is a faster death because the present great shoot em up is replaced completely by the nexts great shoot em up.  This is THEIR death warrant, not ours.

That is simple:  a single platform game economy supported by a common vision of where income comes from:  one common demographic........   And, that isn't the Boomer population whom demand quality from them...  They want the "Likers" whom only want constant change and spend their parents money with plastic.....   Imagine a Free-For-All where there simply isn't any history.........just gimmicks and microtransactions.   That, is where they want to be soon........before, governments close loot boxes down.  A few have already.

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Sure wait a few years a new crop of babies grow up to play video games. And wave the credit card doing so.

 

I just finished reading about a 6 year old who burned mom's card into a unprotected smartphone Iapple video game to the tune of 16K dollars earlier this year. Mom did not have a clue until the credit card bills finally got grotesque.

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4 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yes, absolutely. The game is seeing more players than ever since COVID-19. Sure WG has made some bad moves recently, however there are been bad moves before and that hasn't stopped some of the oldest members of the community (like me) from playing. 

I'm not picking on you specifically, and you're definitely allowed to have your own views, but, when I see people blowing up about CVs and yelling about how everyone's going to leave, it's hard to take them serious when they've been saying this since the rework...and they're still here.

 

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3 hours ago, VeatherVitch said:

I think you nailed it. The forum is often an echo chamber of negative reactions, which makes it seem like there are more angry people than there really are. 

For years now I have seen people declaring the game is dead, and WG is just looking to wring a few more dollars out of it. Invariably the next update sees the same people making the declarations again...  Inevitably they will be right, but today is not that day. 

I've seen many of the same people declaring the game bad and dying for over two years...and they're still here.  If they won't even leave themselves, how can they think that they're correct?

Yes, people leave all the time, but, that's the nature of F2P.  New people come in all the time.

The crappy part for the 'veteran' players is that they're not nearly as important as getting new blood in, and frankly many hate hearing that, and/or refuse to believe it.  It's how it works.

Edited by Kesh_Lives

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2 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

That is simple:  a single platform game economy supported by a common vision of where income comes from:  one common demographic........   And, that isn't the Boomer population whom demand quality from them...  They want the "Likers" whom only want constant change and spend their parents money with plastic.....   Imagine a Free-For-All where there simply isn't any history.........just gimmicks and microtransactions.   That, is where they want to be soon........before, governments close loot boxes down.  A few have already.

This is so far from reality I don't know where to start with it...

The average age of a player in this game is at least in the 30s, people in their 30s aren't playing their parents credit cards. I am a millennial(just), and I demand quality, so I fail to see how that relates to "boomers". 

Microtransactions are the key to F2P games... What does plastic have to do with it? Do you miss the days when F2P online games accepted travelers cheques?

Every time you post this particular rant it comes across more like the inane rambling of an out of touch gamer pining for the fjords...   

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4 hours ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

Dude, for what ive spent, they would need twenty.

This alone, ALONE, gives me the right to 'grief on the forums that nobody reads'.

Am I supposed to call my mother and complain to her?

What other options to I have to voice my opinion on these untested changes?

Do I need to ask everybody's permission first?

You're missing my point.

Most of the players seem content enough with the state of the game.

Of the very small number of very dedicated players a very vocal portion has a lot of complaints. You seem to be in this group. The question you posed, as I understand it, was asking if we thought WG would be able to replace the players and therefore revenue lost when 'dedicated' players such as yourself presumably quit playing and leave the game.

 

My response to your question, then, is that you and others with many complaints don't actually seen to be leaving the game, so your premise is faulty. They don't need to replace dedicated players such as yourself, as you apparently remain dedicated.. if full of negativity. And even if you did, it remains unclear that your frustrations are shared by anything like a significant portion of the playerbase.

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