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DevilD0g

Why is Buffalo a tier 9 cruiser

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Again i say , why is buffalo a tier 9 cruiser when baltimore at tier 8 is a far better ship

The baltimore range is longer at 15.8 to buffalo 14.1 and sure  it gets a 2 second penalty on reload for being a higher tier with 12 second reload on the buffalo and 10 second in the baltimore.

But if your constantly being outranged in a tier 9 ship what good is it.

The guns are really the same with only a 9m difference in the dispersion benefitting the buffalo, so what am i missing.

surely they should be swapped around in the tier level.

Looking at this I should just step over it with xp and go straight to the Des Moines

Edited by DevilD0g

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Baltimore's better because Baltimore is a tier 9 ship at tier 8. They didn't smack it nearly hard enough when they downtiered it so it's extremely good for a tier 8 ship.

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6 minutes ago, DevilD0g said:

Again i say , why is buffalo a tier 9 cruiser when baltimore at tier 8 is a far better ship

The baltimore range is longer at 15.8 to buffalo 14.1 and sure  it gets a 2 second penalty on reload for being a higher tier with 12 second reload on the buffalo and 10 second in the baltimore.

But if your constantly being outranged in a tier 9 ship what good is it.

The guns are really the same with only a 9m difference in the dispersion benefitting the buffalo, so what am i missing.

surely they should be swapped around in the tier level.

Looking at this I should just step over it with xp and go straight to the Des Moines

That is pretty much what WG wants you to do.  Most tier nines are just a paywall.  Allot are just downgrades from their tier VIII predecessors.  Wait til you get to Seattle on your way to Worcester.  

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Yes. The Buffalo is a downgrade in every aspect, except for a tiny bit better DPM if you get all of your guns on target. 

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Because heal consumable + 6th upgrade slot. Without those, Baltimore would be the better ship. However, heal does provide a very large upgrade to cruisers as it can be effectively a 40%+ HP increase as long as you don't get deleted.

This is not unique to this line. Many cruiser lines' T9 is no clear upgrade over T8 outside of heal + 6th upgrade slot. 

Also, I really don't think Buffalo is a bad ship. She is just average.

Edited by Exciton8964

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Just now, Sovereigndawg said:

My Buffalo says it 's range is 18 km.

shot-20_12.15_20_48.23-0456.thumb.jpg.4460e7da7b16f45a19e0dc3a15df0c68.jpg

You are using 6th slot with range mod. I personally prefer reload on this ship.

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3 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

However, heal does provide a very large upgrade to cruisers as it is effectively a 35-45% HP increase.

 

Assuming you don't get chonked, which is the primary threat. Buffalo being significantly larger runs a more significant risk of being chonked. 

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2 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

You are using 6th slot with range mod. I personally prefer reload on this ship.

Then 14.1 must be without the gun modification, also.

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1 hour ago, DevilD0g said:

Again i say , why is buffalo a tier 9 cruiser when baltimore at tier 8 is a far better ship

The baltimore range is longer at 15.8 to buffalo 14.1 and sure  it gets a 2 second penalty on reload for being a higher tier with 12 second reload on the buffalo and 10 second in the baltimore.

But if your constantly being outranged in a tier 9 ship what good is it.

The guns are really the same with only a 9m difference in the dispersion benefitting the buffalo, so what am i missing.

surely they should be swapped around in the tier level.

Looking at this I should just step over it with xp and go straight to the Des Moines

So you will play harder or use FXP and get Des Moines and end up paying for a perm camo, almost all odd number tiers are bad compare to even number tiers.

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30 minutes ago, TYPHOON0216 said:

...almostall odd number tiers are bad compare to even number tiers.

Fiji says WHAT?

Oh...you said, "almost"...nevermind

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58 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Then 14.1 must be without the gun modification, also.

It is. It's actually 15.6 when upgraded, compared to Baltimore's upgraded 15.8.

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2 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

It is. It's actually 15.6 when upgraded, compared to Baltimore's upgraded 15.8.

 

Even the Wichita can reach out to 15.8km. The Buffalo's base range being that low is just hilariously dumb. Buffing it with a slot 6 module is dumb because it makes that slot 6 module absolutely necessary, which is exactly what Wargaming says they're trying to prevent. 

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1 hour ago, DevilD0g said:

why is buffalo a tier 9 cruiser when baltimore at tier 8 is a far better ship

As much as I love my Baltimore, I'd be much more fearful of facing a Buffalo.  Well played, the bison is a beast. 

 

Shaggy, too.

9 minutes ago, ramp4ge said:

Even the Wichita can reach out to 15.8km. The Buffalo's base range being that low is just hilariously dumb.

While I agree with you (sort of) it's a 200m difference.  The ships are using the same guns, so why should American Bison have a longer range?

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7 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

While I agree with you (sort of) it's a 200m difference.  The ships are using the same guns, so why should American Bison have a longer range?

 

Because the range of the guns aren't the limiting factor, according to Wargaming. 

 

Range used to be determined by the height of the primary director above the waterline. That's apparently not the case anymore.

 

I mean if we want to get historical those guns with the superheavy shells should be reaching out to 30,000+ yards.

 

15.8km is the equivalent of these guns being fired at 11°.. Or 9° for the Wichita..

 

The range stats are completely arbitrary for 'balance'. 

 

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2 minutes ago, ramp4ge said:

Range used to be determined by the height of the primary director above the waterline

Interesting point.  I'll have to think about that.  Still MB director should be approx the same height, no?

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13 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Interesting point.  I'll have to think about that.  Still MB director should be approx the same height, no?

 

A quick look at the models, Buffalo's primary director (not it's secondary battery director, which is even higher) appears to be significantly higher above the waterline than either Baltimore or Wichita. Wichita being a significantly smaller ship would have the 'lowest' FCS, above the waterline, of the 3. But she's also firing a lighter shell and has different ballistics. But then again neither does Anchorage and yet she's only reaching out to 15.6km too.

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2 hours ago, ramp4ge said:

Baltimore's better because Baltimore is a tier 9 ship at tier 8. They didn't smack it nearly hard enough when they downtiered it so it's extremely good for a tier 8 ship.

2 hours ago, WarStore said:

Yes. The Buffalo is a downgrade in every aspect, except for a tiny bit better DPM if you get all of your guns on target. 

I can’t stand Baltimore. I hated it when it was a tier 9, and that opinion hasn’t changed since it became a tier 8.

32 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

As much as I love my Baltimore, I'd be much more fearful of facing a Buffalo.  Well played, the bison is a beast.

I’d rather play my Buffalo than my DM.

My opinion of DM has been bad since I got it early 2016. I suffered through the UU mission just because it was my first T10, but haven’t ever used the UU, and only play it in x-flake events.

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If you're unable to play the Buffalo well, then perhaps you may not be ready for the Des Moines. 

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3 hours ago, tcbaker777 said:

12 USN 203s with SHS AP shells, 'nuff said

Problem is, most of the time in a cruiser you only dare to use 6 of them. Buffalo has the advantage that it can use 6 in either direction but the most common bow-in fight gives the advantage to the Baltimore (range and ROF).

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2 hours ago, JTninja said:

If you're unable to play the Buffalo well, then perhaps you may not be ready for the Des Moines. 

That's not really true. DM/Balto play very differently.  I'd say, rather, that If you're unable to play Buffalo well, then perhaps you may not be ready for Alaska.

The weird thing is that Buffalo interrupts the flavor of the USN CA line.  Considered alone, she's a beast.  In the context of the line, she's rather jarring.

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For similar total rounds per minute, more guns and longer reload is always better. At least in the hands of a good player.

If you are skilled and alert enough to be keeping an eye on every ship that can potentially blap you, you can take advantage of their reload cycles or the times their turrets traverse away from you, and unmask your own turrets. When you're employing Buffalo stop thinking about Baltimore and think more about Brindisi. Smoke aside, It benefits from the same sort of manoeuvres. The difference is that while RM CA SAP throws out constant and consistent damage, Buffalo has the SHS AP penetration and ricochet angles to get some seriously devastating hits once in a while.

When you're not doing that, you're trying to set up pop-outs and corner ambushes against other large ships where your huge alpha strike can win you the upper hand. You want to take calculated risks where your vulnerability window is as brief as possible, because Buffalo only needs half a second to put 12 shells into something. These are things that Des Moines could do as well, and if it didn't have autoloaders it would make a lot of sense. But spending a minute and a half setting up, executing, and recovering  a "gotcha" with a Des Moines is often only 9 shells instead of 12 (unless your target is at anchor, or fat and slow), and unlike Buffalo, Des Moines gives up a lot of potential chip damage to accomplish that. And even though it's more worth your while in a Baltimore because you don't have autoloaders like a DM, you're still only rocking 9 shells—if you did more than spam mediocrity from bow-in and at anchor in your Baltimore grind, you should already have this skill in your toolbox, and now you get 33% more shells when you do it in Buffalo.

 

Could you massage soft stats for Buffalo and Baltimore to justify swapping their tiers? Yeah. Is Buffalo objectively worse than the other T9 heavy cruisers? No. Is a Buffalo played like a Des Moines worse than the other T9 heavy cruisers? Yeah. @iDuckman hit it on the head; Buffalo is a different playstyle than New Orleans, Baltimore, or Des Moines.

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