Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Gabriel_LXIX

'CVs are OP/Broken' by the numbers

50 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,021
[APEZ]
Members
2,516 posts
8,937 battles

According to maplesyrup , for week ending December 12, NA server - best numbers I know available to non WG employees. Tech tree ships. CVs compared to BBs (both 'Capital' ships)

Win rate / XP  / Damage

CVs

  • Hakuryu - 47.94%  ,   1590X, 79621D
  • Midway -  47.85% , 1699X , 75007D
  • MVR - 52.93%, 1882X, 104344D
  • Audacious - 51.29%, 1783X, 80389D

BBS

  • Montana - 48.84%, 1647X, 77272D
  • Yamato - 49.81% , 1812X, 88678D
  • Grosser Kurfurst - 49.13%, 1523X, 68335D
  • Kremlin - 50.78%, 1699X, 78055D
  • Republique - 49.80%, 1636X, 8896D
  • Vermont -  50.86%, 1874X, 91112D
  • Conqueror - 50.46%, 1717X, 100914D

 

Presented without comment.

If you have a counter 'argument'. Please present DATA, not feelings. Thanks 

 

Edited by why_u_heff_to_be_mad
  • Cool 3
  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 1
  • Boring 5
  • Meh 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
208
[RBMK2]
Members
349 posts
7,066 battles
1 minute ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Presented without comment, 

Subject was comment enough bruh :cap_cool:

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,763
[KWF]
Members
5,282 posts
6,659 battles

One important stat that's missing is spotting damage. CVs aren't just capable at dealing damage, but also keeping targets constantly lit up.

  • Cool 4
  • Thanks 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,075
[PISD]
Members
1,711 posts
5,859 battles

Not much to see from it. In average, both class will have 50% win rate. And some CV are played by few good players (which is why Audacious look so good in those stats).

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,475
[REVY]
Members
8,169 posts
6,118 battles
40 minutes ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Montana - 48.84%, 1647X, 77272D

That AA Battleship used to mean something back in the day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
514
[KMS]
[KMS]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,684 posts
12,288 battles
1 hour ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

According to maplesyrup , for week ending December 12, NA server - best numbers I know available to non WG employees. Tech tree ships. CVs compared to BBs (both 'Capital' ships)

Win rate / XP  / Damage

CVs

  • Hakuryu - 47.94%  ,   1590X, 79621D
  • Midway -  47.85% , 1699X , 75007D
  • MVR - 52.93%, 1882X, 104344D
  • Audacious - 51.29%, 1783X, 80389D

BBS

  • Montana - 48.84%, 1647X, 77272D
  • Yamato - 49.81% , 1812X, 88678D
  • Grosser Kurfurst - 49.13%, 1523X, 68335D
  • Kremlin - 50.78%, 1699X, 78055D
  • Republique - 49.80%, 1636X, 8896D
  • Vermont -  50.86%, 1874X, 91112D
  • Conqueror - 50.46%, 1717X, 100914D

 

Presented without comment.

If you have a counter 'argument'. Please present DATA, not feelings. Thanks 

 

all data you need is play a cv.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
579
[TIMT]
Members
1,145 posts
1 hour ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

Presented without comment.

If you have a counter 'argument'. Please present DATA, not feelings. Thanks 

please consider that for every CV in a team, there is a CV on the other team. This in turn means, that for every CV that wins a game, another one lost a game.

The global average WR of CVs is therefore expected to be close to 50% and variations thereof are due to differences in the distribution of players (i.e. who plays Midway vs who plays MvR).

Unfortunately, I have to say your data is meaningless.

What would be needed is data that shows how the WR/damage/XP of a CV compares to the other stats of a given player, and then averaged over the entire playerbase.

  • Cool 5
  • Confused 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,502
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester
27,535 posts
14,839 battles
1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

One important stat that's missing is spotting damage. CVs aren't just capable at dealing damage, but also keeping targets constantly lit up.

Only  CV's, BB's, and seen from the moon cruisers. A DD's spotting range with AA off is far too short for them to keep them lit and against them they have to spend a lot of time in the AA which adds up quickly. This brings the question of why is it that the players of the hardest to spot ships are the loudest in complaining about CV"s?

 

4 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

please consider that for every CV in a team, there is a CV on the other team. This in turn means, that for every CV that wins a game, another one lost a game.

The global average WR of CVs is therefore expected to be close to 50% and variations thereof are due to differences in the distribution of players (i.e. who plays Midway vs who plays MvR).

Unfortunately, I have to say your data is meaningless.

What would be needed is data that shows how the WR/damage/XP of a CV compares to the other stats of a given player, and then averaged over the entire playerbase.

There is generally a matching BB, cruiser, or DD on each team too but it is not a hard rule.

Edited by BrushWolf
  • Cool 1
  • Boring 2
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
143
[FF]
Members
375 posts
15,624 battles

CVs are OP/Broken

I just take it to mean, " Cv's are not fun to play with or against so they should be removed."

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,475
[REVY]
Members
8,169 posts
6,118 battles
2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This brings the question of why is it that the players of the hardest to spot ships are the loudest in complaining about CV"s?

 

Because there is no counterplay.  When a CV searches my last known position in a DD, it doesn't matter if my AA is on or off, they always find me at tier 10.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,763
[KWF]
Members
5,282 posts
6,659 battles
4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Only  CV's, BB's, and seen from the moon cruisers. A DD's spotting range with AA off is far too short for them to keep them lit and against them they have to spend a lot of time in the AA which adds up quickly. This brings the question of why is it that the players of the hardest to spot ships are the loudest in complaining about CV"s?

If you ask me I believe it's because say a single rocket attack run for 4k damage is equivalent to 26% of for this case, Benson's HP. Meanwhile the greatest weapon of DDs, stealth control is nullified, attracting fire from surface ships, and all this with few exceptions is unhealable. To someone not accustomed to taking proper action to at least make themselves less of a target this can feel incredibly infuriating and helpless.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,502
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester
27,535 posts
14,839 battles
1 minute ago, Sventex said:

Because there is no counterplay.  When a CV searches my last known position in a DD, it doesn't matter if my AA is on or off, they always find me at tier 10.

That is not a given unless you have made it obvious where you are going.

1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

If you ask me I believe it's because say a single rocket attack run for 4k damage is equivalent to 26% of for this case, Benson's HP. Meanwhile the greatest weapon of DDs, stealth control is nullified, attracting fire from surface ships, and all this with few exceptions is unhealable. To someone not accustomed to taking proper action to at least make themselves less of a target this can feel incredibly infuriating and helpless.

If you are not a threat they are wasting their time as they should be hunting bigger prey and if you are nearing a position to be a threat they can't ignore you.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
514
[KMS]
[KMS]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,684 posts
12,288 battles
3 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

If you ask me I believe it's because say a single rocket attack run for 4k damage is equivalent to 26% of for this case, Benson's HP. Meanwhile the greatest weapon of DDs, stealth control is nullified, attracting fire from surface ships, and all this with few exceptions is unhealable. To someone not accustomed to taking proper action to at least make themselves less of a target this can feel incredibly infuriating and helpless.

Throw in a game with CV and Radar, dds have to work hard..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,475
[REVY]
Members
8,169 posts
6,118 battles
2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

That is not a given unless you have made it obvious where you are going.

It is a given.  I go in the opposite direction of the battle and the opposite orientation of what I spotted and I'm still found because I simply cannot outrun planes, even in a Shima on speed boost.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,763
[KWF]
Members
5,282 posts
6,659 battles
Just now, BrushWolf said:

If you are not a threat they are wasting their time as they should be hunting bigger prey and if you are nearing a position to be a threat they can't ignore you.

DDs are always a threat, just from an objective control standpoint. I don't begrudge CV players as they are simply after the advantageous matchup. My beef is with the system WG has in place that pits a player versus AI controlled mechanics.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
788
[ZR]
Beta Testers
353 posts
9,884 battles

Here is your data 

CVs have a hard cap at 2 for T10 battles, while DDs are at 5 and BBs/CAs have a soft limit (info taken from wows wiki and other searches on forum/Reddit).

if the class wasn’t broken then should it not have similar MM rule to DDs at least? Oh wait that’s because it is broken.

Then when it comes to ranked/clan battles CVs are either limited to 1 or banned because they are broken.

lastly if the class was fine then why was it not allowed in the Verizon tournament, surly WG would want a class they worked so hard on/remade to be featured to attract new people. Oh wait the class wasn’t allowed because it’s broken/promotes boring gameplay.

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
579
[TIMT]
Members
1,145 posts
49 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Only  CV's, BB's, and seen from the moon cruisers. A DD's spotting range with AA off is far too short for them to keep them lit and against them they have to spend a lot of time in the AA which adds up quickly. This brings the question of why is it that the players of the hardest to spot ships are the loudest in complaining about CV"s?

Well, DDs are the type of ship that trades most of its hitpoints and all its armor for concealment, so naturally it is allergic to spotting of any kind. Yes, they are tough to spot from the air (and the proposed changes of cutting this in half again at the cost of ramp-up/down times for AA would make this even more ridiculous) but in situations where other ships pay attention a few seconds of spotting can be enough. Also, just knowing where a DD is and is not can make a difference since when all DDs are accounted for BBs can advance more freely without the threat of torpedoes from unexpected angles.

49 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

There is generally a matching BB, cruiser, or DD on each team too but it is not a hard rule.

Yes, and the same considerations apply to them too. The upside here is that there are more different BBs etc. so there is more variability, as can be seen with, for example, T10 BBs. In addition, things like availability (steel vs coal vs money) can introduce a selection bias in that bad/average players don't have access to a particular ship.

If you want to see how to better do this, look at how WG rebalanced the UU as described in this blog post:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/30

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,021
[APEZ]
Members
2,516 posts
8,937 battles

20 responses, no data showing the class if "broken.' just speculation

 

I'll away the next 20 responses with rapt attention, 

Edited by why_u_heff_to_be_mad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,862
[--K--]
[--K--]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,567 posts

There is usually only 1 T10 CV on each side-- This is a numeric fact that plays heavily into the overall WR number.  As an example, to see 2-3 of one ship in a match isn't terribly uncommon.  If one side has that and the other doesn't, that already weighs more on the overall WR.  This alone debunks OP's hope to talk about WR.

Average XP?  Those numbers are artificially nerfed, because it allowed CVs to keep their star easily per game.  reddit has numbers on how this alone let them stay on top more than anybody else with ease, a DATAPOINT that OP i'm sure will also ignore.

Damage?  If you're looking at damage as the end-all-be-all for power in this game, any above average player will laugh at you... me included.

So sorry, OP.  Your "facts only" argument on these 3 metrics already fail.  Furthermore?  There's a reason why everyone good mocks WG with the whole "spreadsheet says you're having fun and its balanced" memes.  Congratulations on doing the exact thing people mock WG about on the regular.  Numbers such as these don't tell the full story, and never will.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

  • Cool 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36
[SCK]
Members
156 posts
21,753 battles

You only have one CV per side just like in chess where you have one queen. Just like the queen, the CV can have the most influence in the match and that’s where the problem starts. Because not all CV players are equal. How do you fix this? I’m not sure reigning in CVs is the answer, but  I’d like to see better rewards for shooting down planes and damage dealt to planes for starters. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,284
[RKLES]
Members
964 posts
1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

That is not a given unless you have made it obvious where you are going.

If you are not a threat they are wasting their time as they should be hunting bigger prey and if you are nearing a position to be a threat they can't ignore you.

A CV will find you if they try/want.

Unless you remove yourself from battle but then there is no need to find you.

Take that this damage can be applied anywhere/anytime on the map with complete map/ vision control.

One must be pretty dense in the head so see that there is no problem with this type of ship.

Forgot to mention that the counter mechanics are dodging, hoping not to be found and an RNG based damage system to punish the CV.

Yeah,  it is all find and dandy alright.

 

Edited by Learux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×