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cthuhulu

How to deal with cv?

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So there have been alot of threads complaining about cv’s but we all know they are not going away and I think they can be a fun part of this game. But when the game starts and you notice your green cv going full potato I always find myself having to be much more aggressive to make up for the lack of spotting, dd hunting, etc. 
 

Since the current meta has cv’s being the true only hard counter to another cv I have been wondering what I can do in a such a game depending in my ship type.
 

When I am a dd I go into spot mode trying to stay undetected while keeping red boats lit and being opportunistic. When I am in a radar cruiser I try to find and kill dd’s. Other types of cruisers I try to force multiply and as bb’s I move in closer to take advantage of alpha strikes. This more aggressive stance usually gets me in trouble as I usually play high tier.  
 

What tactics do others try to do when they find themselves down a cv early in the match?

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Look for an opening, exploit the hell out of it.  Or speed boost onto CV and strike fast and die gloriously.

 

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You die. 

The only counter against a good CV is pray they don't go for you. A bad CV can be hard to deal with too, they will munch on your flak and probably not get strikes through, but they will still get you killed by spotting you

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Just dodge

Just angle

Just position yourself like a potato in a lemming train. 

Stop thinking big brain and realize that good tactical sense and initiative is useless in a game with a cv that doesn't want you to use them. 

Other than that, I don't know. 

Edited by DuckyShot
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Or try to make the CV driver actually have a conversation via chat.  They will need two hands to control their squadrons anyways.  Hopefully, that will give you that 'edge' you need...

 

Who am I kidding.

:CV::cap_rambo:

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That is why CVs are so hated. Its bad enough the harassments even a bad CV driver can give you but when you have a significant skill gap between your CV & the enemies, well lets just say your odds of putting one in the win column are significantly diminished. 

Edited by MizzenMast
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Tier VIII or Tier X CV with bad cv driver on your side is a rough deal. Try to farm some damage.

In a DD you will have to do the spotting and capping while staying away from enemy CV.

Staying back you will make it to the end of the match, actively spotting for team will get you severely damaged/killed.

Just counter the CV as good as you can, oh wait...............

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33 minutes ago, cthuhulu said:


 

What tactics do others try to do when they find themselves down a cv early in the match?

 

11 minutes ago, Pay_Your_Torpedo_Tax said:

Hope they are bad. End of thread. 

That is my favorite tactic. 

I try to play the same game as usual, with an eye on the aircraft on mini map.  I am surprised at the amount of spotting that I can get even in a CV game. 

If he is not bad and he comes for me, well, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear get you. 

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This is honestly a big reason why I play CV. Being the ship with largest potential to influence the game has a sense of responsibility. The losses I get I often can point to my poor play.

To the question though, not much changes. Or better, I change my play based off the other CVs skill moreso than I do my CV dying early.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, cthuhulu said:

So there have been alot of threads complaining about cv’s but we all know they are not going away and I think they can be a fun part of this game. But when the game starts and you notice your green cv going full potato I always find myself having to be much more aggressive to make up for the lack of spotting, dd hunting, etc. 
 

Since the current meta has cv’s being the true only hard counter to another cv I have been wondering what I can do in a such a game depending in my ship type.
 

When I am a dd I go into spot mode trying to stay undetected while keeping red boats lit and being opportunistic. When I am in a radar cruiser I try to find and kill dd’s. Other types of cruisers I try to force multiply and as bb’s I move in closer to take advantage of alpha strikes. This more aggressive stance usually gets me in trouble as I usually play high tier.  
 

What tactics do others try to do when they find themselves down a cv early in the match?

I play CVs a lot and I just want to correct your perception that the "hard counter" to a CV is another CV. CVs don't counter each other or really interact with each other much. The only countering one CV really does to another more than any other ship is using fighters to try to deflect an attack or drive off spotters. A CV does two things - 1. spotting, 2. inject a bit of burst damage into select situations to help the team or hinder the opponent. #1 allows the team to target efficiently and maximize damage on the spotted target and is probably the single most important thing CVs can do to help win. #2 basically is a fairly small injection of additional damage at a location from time to time. A CV squadron of planes will put out about the equivalent damage to a couple of hits from a BB salvo or a couple of DD torpedo hits. Sometimes it can be more but mostly that's about it. The CV countering part occurs if one CV is able to put down fighters ahead of the other CV and stop him from spotting or attacking that particular opponent. That's it. It's not "hard countering" by any definition.

The reason I say all that is to say that one side being down a CV is not a big issue post-rework other than the spotting loss. It isn't much different that one side having a BB afk or being new other than the loss of vision and there is nothing at all you can do about the loss of vision.  Pre-rework, if that happened you probably already lost the game. CVs could counter each other and could generate huge alpha strikes. You needed your CV to do just that or you will lose. Post-rework, the primary difference is in #1, the loss of spotting. Nothing about my play changes because I can't do anything about the spotting the CV is not providing. If I am in a ship that could spot effectively to help the team, I would have and should have been doing it already to contribute to a win, with-or-without a CV. 

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2 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

 

The reason I say all that is to say that one side being down a CV is not a big issue post-rework other than the spotting loss.

Bingo, this is very important. Spotting gone, most likely match gone.

If we could only have balanced MM for CVs that would be a start to better games.

Never mind WG wants to churn matches as fast as they can.

 

 

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1 hour ago, cthuhulu said:

So there have been alot of threads complaining about cv’s but we all know they are not going away and I think they can be a fun part of this game. But when the game starts and you notice your green cv going full potato I always find myself having to be much more aggressive to make up for the lack of spotting, dd hunting, etc. 
 

Since the current meta has cv’s being the true only hard counter to another cv I have been wondering what I can do in a such a game depending in my ship type.
 

When I am a dd I go into spot mode trying to stay undetected while keeping red boats lit and being opportunistic. When I am in a radar cruiser I try to find and kill dd’s. Other types of cruisers I try to force multiply and as bb’s I move in closer to take advantage of alpha strikes. This more aggressive stance usually gets me in trouble as I usually play high tier.  
 

What tactics do others try to do when they find themselves down a cv early in the match?

You have to go into the match knowing that there is nothing you can truly do to counter the CV if he decides you are a worthwhile target.   All that you are left with as a DD is trying very hard to frustrate their efforts. 

When I go out into a match with a CV in high tier DDs. 

1. Make sure AA is off. 

2.  I Will still launch at full speed towards my given cap  however right about the time where you get 3-4 km ahead of the cruisers you should see where the CV is going with his first squad and what his intention are. 

    There are 4 scenarios now . IN each case you want to stay in the AA protection of your cruisers / BBs 

 - IF the planes pop up close to me and the CV is headed right in my direction I angle into him at full speed  but do not pop AA until he spots me. 

-  IF the planes pop up further away and he is coming my way. I tend to turn away and try to get away with not being spotted. Again if he spots me I try to already be under AA protection.   

- IF the planes  pop up near me or far away and he is headed away from me then I will start my usual cap approach.  Usual is a big word here as the approach is different on almost every cap of each map and varies a lot on what the different team lineups are.  

 

I tried to make more point of order things but its not good to make a point order list as the situations change so much.  In general though here are some random thoughts on how I deal with CVs 

- When dealing with Rocket planes  You want to present your bow while rushing into the rocket plane and not pop your AA until he is ontop of you.  Showing the stern is another less desirable option as it gives the CV more time and opportunity to attack you. 

- Torpedo bomber you also want to directly drive into them. 

- AP bombers you want to fake one way then go the other but in the end presenting broadside is best during delivery. 

- The more friendly AA is around the better. 

- Islands can help you hide from planes and screw up planes aim. 

- If you are in a boat with good AA like halland and you do pop AA and focus one side you want to make sure the CVs planes stay in the priority sector. For example with rockets. Rush straight into them , pop prioty sector on whatever side they seem to be headed and turn so that they stay inside that sector as long as possible. 

- DO turn off AA again as soon as possible so that when they come around for a second pass you are unspotted till the last moment. 

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as the TF2 Engineer once said, "Start prayin', boy"

Edited by tcbaker777

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5 minutes ago, Learux said:

Bingo, this is very important. Spotting gone, most likely match gone.

If we could only have balanced MM for CVs that would be a start to better games.

Never mind WG wants to churn matches as fast as they can.

 

 

I disagree. The match is far from gone. It certainly doesn't help. 11 ships vs. 12 is always going to be a problem but if the rest of the team is doing a good job it is easily manageable. Spotting is not the sole province of the CV. DDs should be out there on the flanks doing their part (or in the middle smoke and radar permitting) and CLs should be as well. An ineffective, AFK or early-dead CV is not rare, and is not the calamity it once was. I freely admit it isn't good, but it is far from the end of the game. I've won quite  a few games where my CV was inept and the other team's CV came out tops on their team, because my team did its job well and theirs didn't even with their CV's outstanding play. The CV does not leap tall buildings with a single bound. It is one ship that plays a bit differently than the others. It doesn't take caps or do much to help with map control and it isn't a big damage producer.  The team is still expected to do its thing with or without the CV. 

I've never understood why people put the CV up on a pedestal and think it is the sole cause of whether a team won or lost. They contribute like any other ship, but game wins or losses hinge most on CAPs and map control and thus more on effective DD work than they do on the CVs. DDs with good AA and/or smoke, and AA CLs can also do a really strong job of blunting a CV's effectiveness because they can deny the CV the ability to spot, which is its primary bread and butter. 

Sorry about the rambling but people really need to worry more about their own gameplay and whether they are doing everything THEY can to secure a win and less on whether the CV is acting like Superman and spotting all the enemy all the time with his x-ray vision or wiping ships out with one strike of his eye-rays. The bulk of the time when people are worried about whether someone else in the game wasn't contributing effectively that person probably wasn't contributing as effectively as he or she could have been either. 

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The same thing you do when your dds yolo to a prompt death or your BBs won't leave spawn... You curse their name under your breath, carry as much as you can, and pray to RNGesus for a better team next time.

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37 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

I disagree. The match is far from gone. It certainly doesn't help. 11 ships vs. 12 is always going to be a problem but if the rest of the team is doing a good job it is easily manageable. Spotting is not the sole province of the CV. DDs should be out there on the flanks doing their part (or in the middle smoke and radar permitting) and CLs should be as well. An ineffective, AFK or early-dead CV is not rare, and is not the calamity it once was. I freely admit it isn't good, but it is far from the end of the game. I've won quite  a few games where my CV was inept and the other team's CV came out tops on their team, because my team did its job well and theirs didn't even with their CV's outstanding play. The CV does not leap tall buildings with a single bound. It is one ship that plays a bit differently than the others. It doesn't take caps or do much to help with map control and it isn't a big damage producer.  The team is still expected to do its thing with or without the CV. 

I've never understood why people put the CV up on a pedestal and think it is the sole cause of whether a team won or lost. They contribute like any other ship, but game wins or losses hinge most on CAPs and map control and thus more on effective DD work than they do on the CVs. DDs with good AA and/or smoke, and AA CLs can also do a really strong job of blunting a CV's effectiveness because they can deny the CV the ability to spot, which is its primary bread and butter. 

Sorry about the rambling but people really need to worry more about their own gameplay and whether they are doing everything THEY can to secure a win and less on whether the CV is acting like Superman and spotting all the enemy all the time with his x-ray vision or wiping ships out with one strike of his eye-rays. The bulk of the time when people are worried about whether someone else in the game wasn't contributing effectively that person probably wasn't contributing as effectively as he or she could have been either. 

No, just no. Now we have a situation where the bad CV is removed and the good CV is still in play.

Calling this an 11 versus 12 (or 5-6 for that matter) situation is not what that is.

 

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8 hours ago, eviltane said:

You have to go into the match knowing that there is nothing you can truly do to counter the CV if he decides you are a worthwhile target.   All that you are left with as a DD is trying very hard to frustrate their efforts. 

When I go out into a match with a CV in high tier DDs. 

1. Make sure AA is off. 

2.  I Will still launch at full speed towards my given cap  however right about the time where you get 3-4 km ahead of the cruisers you should see where the CV is going with his first squad and what his intention are. 

    There are 4 scenarios now . IN each case you want to stay in the AA protection of your cruisers / BBs 

 - IF the planes pop up close to me and the CV is headed right in my direction I angle into him at full speed  but do not pop AA until he spots me. 

-  IF the planes pop up further away and he is coming my way. I tend to turn away and try to get away with not being spotted. Again if he spots me I try to already be under AA protection.   

- IF the planes  pop up near me or far away and he is headed away from me then I will start my usual cap approach.  Usual is a big word here as the approach is different on almost every cap of each map and varies a lot on what the different team lineups are.  

 

I tried to make more point of order things but its not good to make a point order list as the situations change so much.  In general though here are some random thoughts on how I deal with CVs 

- When dealing with Rocket planes  You want to present your bow while rushing into the rocket plane and not pop your AA until he is ontop of you.  Showing the stern is another less desirable option as it gives the CV more time and opportunity to attack you. 

- Torpedo bomber you also want to directly drive into them. 

- AP bombers you want to fake one way then go the other but in the end presenting broadside is best during delivery. 

- The more friendly AA is around the better. 

- Islands can help you hide from planes and screw up planes aim. 

- If you are in a boat with good AA like halland and you do pop AA and focus one side you want to make sure the CVs planes stay in the priority sector. For example with rockets. Rush straight into them , pop prioty sector on whatever side they seem to be headed and turn so that they stay inside that sector as long as possible. 

- DO turn off AA again as soon as possible so that when they come around for a second pass you are unspotted till the last moment. 

This is actually a really useful guide for DDs when facing CVs, and yeah, the Halland can easily frustrate a CV most of the time... Props to you, my friend

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10 hours ago, Merc_R_Us said:

This is honestly a big reason why I play CV.

When I play CVs, I try to help the team as much as I can, Though I can't be everywhere, I try to keep an eye on where the enemy CV is sending planes and try to drop fighters in its path. I'll also go to where a teammate last saw a DD and try to spot it if I can. Occasionally, my meagre efforts are even recognized.

image.png.98c0f9a405f739ae6acdb7f06be4af45.png

When I'm playing my Massachusetts I try to put myself between allied ships and planes as even at tier X I can usually down most of them. If I'm playing my Gearing I'll keep my AA off and maneuver away from the planes. Generally they will never spot me and soon tire of looking and go somewhere else. Most of the DDs I spot with my planes have failed to turn off their AA guns.

Unless you are stationary or stuck near an island where you can't maneuver, it's fairly easy to dodge plane-dropped torpedoes. If you pay attention to the planes you can see them drop the torpedoes, even if you can't see the torpedo trails in the water until they are closer. A lot of players are good at dodging torpedoes. In fact, the only ships I can consistently hit with My CV's torpedoes are those traveling in a straight line. Turning sharply also throws off the aim of rocket planes and dive bombers or at least causes the aiming reticle to widen, thus giving you a RNG advantage.  

Edited by Snargfargle
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13 hours ago, Tzarevitch said:

The reason I say all that is to say that one side being down a CV is not a big issue post-rework other than the spotting loss. It isn't much different that one side having a BB afk or being new other than the loss of vision and there is nothing at all you can do about the loss of vision.  Pre-rework, if that happened you probably already lost the game. CVs could counter each other and could generate huge alpha strikes. You needed your CV to do just that or you will lose. Post-rework, the primary difference is in #1, the loss of spotting. Nothing about my play changes because I can't do anything about the spotting the CV is not providing. If I am in a ship that could spot effectively to help the team, I would have and should have been doing it already to contribute to a win, with-or-without a CV. 

What you are saying is contradictory.

Pre-rework CVs fighting each other typically lead to spotting loss for one team, that is no different compared to today.
Reworked CVs have literally the same or even higher damage potential than pre-rework ones due to a far faster strike cycling rate. You are not missing out merely on one BB, you are missing out on the most effective practical damage delivery platform in the entire game. The alpha CV puts out is about equivalent to a guaranteed BB citadel hit per attack or more depending on planes, tier and nation. Other classes can only dream of such damage effectiveness. If you want to, racking up 200k damage within the first 10 minutes is not only fairly easy (albeit probably useless since you'd be farming damage and not helping your team), it is guaranteed.

In general CVs exert about the same influence on the match as they did before as is reflected on top CV stats having remained largely the same. Nothing has changed in that regard, your CV being a complete potato vs the enemy CV being a unicum is still as much a lopsided engagement as it was previously. And unlike pre-rework there is very little you can do to influence that as a surface ship as has already been stated in this thread.

Or do you really think that a match up like this
KDQwTNa.png

is somehow less likely to result in a loss for the right team than the left compared to previously?

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I hunt the cvs They usually run away towards their teammates on the other side of the map who abandon the objective and come hunt me. If i am lucky we still have our CV airstrikes and BB support taking out the enemy CV.

Ive played the game enough to know how the CV situation will evolve. I'll behave accordingly.

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14 hours ago, Tzarevitch said:

The reason I say all that is to say that one side being down a CV is not a big issue post-rework other than the spotting loss. 

Yes it is. I run Fuso with extended spotter to kill Sky Parasites early. Of all the matches in which I eliminated cancer early, I have lost only one. Losing the CV early almost guarantees defeat. 

It also means a more pleasant match atmosphere, since you can actually play the game. So refreshing. I just feel sad for Reds, who still have to suffer, but unfortunately it's no longer possible to TK one's own CV. 

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30 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

but unfortunately it's no longer possible to TK one's own CV. 

LOL 
You just need to get everyone on the team to take small pieces of it, eventually the shared damage will kill off the CV. 

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