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XVirtusX

Are Italian Cruiser Really Worth?

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I see lots of contradicting statements about Italian cruisers. Some say that it isn't worth, since WG nerfed SAP ammo into oblivion. Some say the entire line is crap, only Venezia being worth of note. I won a Duca d'aosta with a 10 point commander from Twitch Prime boxes and I was thinking about starting the Italian cruiser line. What would you guys say?

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Generally I quite like them and I'd say they certainly start bad and get better as you go up the tiers.

A warning if you're not familiar - d'Aosta has HE rather than SAP and lacks the engine smoke screen of the tree ships. If you don't worry about IFHE she's still an ok captain trainer.

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It's worth grinding through them to get the Venezia in my opinion. Still a great ship, even after the recent nerfs.

It's very easy to achieve 100k damage with the SAP. I have 296 battles in it, and average 94,082 damage in it per game. Don't think I have ever used the AP, always the SAP. By far my best in cruisers, and I am just barely an average player.

You may feel it isn't worth the grind in lower tiers, but if you decide to push through to get the Venezia, I don't think you will be disappointed with it.

Edited by Colonel_Potter

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I'm taking my time with that line trying to feel out its strengths and weaknesses... It's definitely one of the harder lines to dial into and as a guy who traditionally hasn't done well with cruisers it's taking some getting used to. What it does really well is spring traps on DDs with the SAP... but the relatively slow reload and no hydro makes this very tricky indeed in spite of its running smoke generator. 

I started a thread very much like this one a couple months ago and asked the same question since I was at tier 4-5 and really struggling to do anything in it. Big reason of course is because at those tiers DD numbers were down because of the double CVs... LOTS of battleships so few cruisers- and not a lot of those battleships have hulking superstructures you can easily hit at max range where you can survive so limited usefulness of SAP. 

I am no authority on the Italian cruiser line but I will say this: In perusing your stats I see that less than 10% of your games (random anyway) are in cruisers. I mean on one hand getting invested early will help you learn the game as well as how to maximize the potential of the Italian line... on the other hand it may just lead to frustration stacked on top of other gameplay related frustration. I recommend you stay the course with the german cruiser line with it's great HE and learn how to hit things and survive at range.

I don't want to write a novel- my recommendation would be to build up your game awareness in a few key ships and then sprawl out as you start being more successful in those lines and demonstrating true aptitude in the battles you join. This isn't just about being on the winning team- I see in your 10 battles in Duca that you have a 60% win rate so far which is not only a low sample size but also accommodated by extremely low damage / PR... meaning you're practically being carried- which suggests you're still finding your footing in game and this may not be the time to take on the challenges of a line that requires a high amount of in game experience to really excel in. 

 

My thoughts anyway. 

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The lower tiers are painful, imo the line gets good at Tier IX.

Play conservative, disengage(or smoke up) before you think about it and you'll be fine.

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Brindisi is a gem. I'm having a bit harder time with Venezia, but probably because of the somewhat stiffer competition in all X matches. Being able to race around the battlefield, nuke people from long range and utilize smoke when needed are great assets.

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55 minutes ago, XVirtusX said:

I see lots of contradicting statements about Italian cruisers. Some say that it isn't worth, since WG nerfed SAP ammo into oblivion. Some say the entire line is crap, only Venezia being worth of note. I won a Duca d'aosta with a 10 point commander from Twitch Prime boxes and I was thinking about starting the Italian cruiser line. What would you guys say?

they are great, i'm on Zara and I live the line

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34 minutes ago, _ENO_ said:

I'm taking my time with that line trying to feel out its strengths and weaknesses... It's definitely one of the harder lines to dial into and as a guy who traditionally hasn't done well with cruisers it's taking some getting used to. What it does really well is spring traps on DDs with the SAP... but the relatively slow reload and no hydro makes this very tricky indeed in spite of its running smoke generator. 

I started a thread very much like this one a couple months ago and asked the same question since I was at tier 4-5 and really struggling to do anything in it. Big reason of course is because at those tiers DD numbers were down because of the double CVs... LOTS of battleships so few cruisers- and not a lot of those battleships have hulking superstructures you can easily hit at max range where you can survive so limited usefulness of SAP. 

I am no authority on the Italian cruiser line but I will say this: In perusing your stats I see that less than 10% of your games (random anyway) are in cruisers. I mean on one hand getting invested early will help you learn the game as well as how to maximize the potential of the Italian line... on the other hand it may just lead to frustration stacked on top of other gameplay related frustration. I recommend you stay the course with the german cruiser line with it's great HE and learn how to hit things and survive at range.

I don't want to write a novel- my recommendation would be to build up your game awareness in a few key ships and then sprawl out as you start being more successful in those lines and demonstrating true aptitude in the battles you join. This isn't just about being on the winning team- I see in your 10 battles in Duca that you have a 60% win rate so far which is not only a low sample size but also accommodated by extremely low damage / PR... meaning you're practically being carried- which suggests you're still finding your footing in game and this may not be the time to take on the challenges of a line that requires a high amount of in game experience to really excel in. 

 

My thoughts anyway. 

Thank you for taking your time to write such a complete answer, _eno_. And I kind of agree with you. I'm still relatively new to the game, with less than 1k games. Cruisers are indeed the line that I least know how to play, although I have been enjoying it. Maybe you are right, I will focus on the German line for now, that I already have the Tier VI. Then later, I will try the italians. But to be honest, I find the German, American and Russian lines much more attractive.

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3 minutes ago, XVirtusX said:

I will focus on the German line for now, that I already have the Tier VI. 

nurnberg is one of my favorite cruisers in the game

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4 minutes ago, AdmiralFox08 said:

they are great, i'm on Zara and I live the line

Cough. 

Care to elaborate on what it is about them that you like? Are you doing really well in them? Loads of damage? Lots of wins? Sinking lots of ships? Do you have lots of battles in them? 

Maybe it'll help give a new guy some context on what you mean by "they are great." 

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Just now, _ENO_ said:

Cough. 

Care to elaborate on what it is about them that you like? Are you doing really well in them? Loads of damage? Lots of wins? Sinking lots of ships? Do you have lots of battles in them? 

Maybe it'll help give a new guy some context on what you mean by "they are great." 

i just enjoy them, their AA isn't too bad, and i can rack up pretty decent scores in them, and 10% of my random battles are in them. 

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4 minutes ago, XVirtusX said:

Thank you for taking your time to write such a complete answer, _eno_. And I kind of agree with you. I'm still relatively new to the game, with less than 1k games. Cruisers are indeed the line that I least know how to play, although I have been enjoying it. Maybe you are right, I will focus on the German line for now, that I already have the Tier VI. Then later, I will try the italians. But to be honest, I find the German, American and Russian lines much more attractive.

I have definitely left the Italian line alone since I recognized it was going to require a lot of skill to get any enjoyment off of. I'm tip toeing through it very slowly indeed- doing my best not to rage horse my way through the line while vacuuming up my FXP in the process. 

Personally I think this would be a safe play and provide you with the highest potential for success and enjoyment of the line. 

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Just now, __Riptide_ said:

Trento - meh

Zara - meh

Amalfi - not bad, for t8 at least

Brindisi - good

Venezia - totally worth it

I'm not at venezia yet, but i agree..... i find the brindisi like most t9's. Good but seems to eat massive pens and citadels super easy. Even with massive angling she takes hard hits, not sure if its thin deck armor or what but geeeeeez

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1 hour ago, XVirtusX said:

What would you guys say?

Each line of ship and each country could be made to look bad...  I have found the Italian cruisers to be capable.. they require that the captain understand the ship. Of course this is the case with any ship, and it is very true that there are no bad ships only bad captains.  I got the Abruzzi in as a gift 2 years ago and found it to be quite capable... 
 

 

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8 minutes ago, Freelancerinc said:

Good but seems to eat massive pens and citadels super easy. Even with massive angling she takes hard hits, not sure if its thin deck armor or what but geeeeeez

Yeah so at a glance at the armour profile of Brindisi other than that really low lying 50mm plating that will protect you from angry Narwhals your bow / stern and deck plating are 25mm which can be overmatched by anything over 357.5 mm shells- which at tier 8-10 is almost every BB other than the French. So Cits for days, unfortunately especially since the flavour of 2020 is guns 457+. 

Edited by _ENO_

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1 minute ago, _ENO_ said:

Good but seems to eat massive pens and citadels super easy.

..outside of Russian ships, all cruisers pen easy... all cruisers are citadel targets...  so saying that Italian cruisers get penned .. is like saying cruisers get penned.

 

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5 minutes ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

..outside of Russian ships, all cruisers pen easy... all cruisers are citadel targets...  so saying that Italian cruisers get penned .. is like saying cruisers get penned.

Sure. 

But if you're going to quote someone and reply at least quote the right person. 

And some cruisers have more bow / deck plating. Some have turtleback armour. Some have spaced armour and each protects in its own way. 

But yeah. Cruisers get penned. So do all ships. 

So... apples are oranges. 

 

Got it. 

Edited by _ENO_

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I just don't understand the selling point of Italians. SAP seems underperforming compared to normal HE. Also, the consumables are not that attractive. In high tiers, cruisers with Radars can wreck havoc.

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49 minutes ago, AdmiralFox08 said:

nurnberg is one of my favorite cruisers in the game

Ditto & the line just gets better from there! York is great & Hipper is probably my single most solidly performing ship. 

Back to the OP. I mostly like the whole IT line with the exception being the Brindisi. I played two match's, wasnt feeling it & FXP'd through it. I am going to circle back to it in the near future though. They are very squishy so you have to be very cautious with them, very much like the UKs CLs but once get it down they are a joy! Even after the nerf the SAP still hits HARD! 

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2 minutes ago, XVirtusX said:

I just don't understand the selling point of Italians. SAP seems underperforming compared to normal HE. Also, the consumables are not that attractive. In high tiers, cruisers with Radars can wreck havoc.

Well you are trading persistent damage of fire for higher alpha damage of SAP. For the most part I dont play HE spamming ships but SAP seems to give more consistent & reliable damage than HE or AP IMO. 

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Totally worth it

BUT

This should not be your first cruiser line

These cruisers require the knowledge of WASD, they do awesome damage with SAP and AP but can take massive pen damage from even other cruisers. I've lost a duel to a DD granted I was low health.

    These cruisers really on timing, stealth, positioning, and speed. Pick your targets and pray.

     I did the German cruisers first and learned about glass cannon with konigsberg and Nuremberg. 

     If you practice with them you can be very dangerous.

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2 hours ago, XVirtusX said:

... I won a Duca d'aosta with a 10 point commander from Twitch Prime boxes and I was thinking about starting the Italian cruiser line. What would you guys say?

Be aware that the DOA has garden variety AP/HE ammo choices, and won’t give you the SAP experience of the Italian cruiser line.

That having been said, from T8 up, the Italian cruisers are good funbotes.

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As mentioned, Duca d’Aosta shares very little with the Italian tech tree cruiser line. She lacks the Fuel Smoke consumable and SAP rounds. This is also true of Duca degli Abruzzi. Genova has SAP but no smoke (being low tier), while Gorizia actually has the most complete overlap with the tech tree ships. 

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