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Sabot_100

Torpedo belt protection

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Grinding my Izmail. I end up less than 2K from a Fuso broadside with his guns pointed elsewhere and my AP loading soon so I anticipate a dev strike. Circle turns green and I let loose with all 12 guns.

End up with 1 Pen for normal damage and 6 torpedo belt hits for no damage (no idea where the other 5 shells went).

Can I have the torpedo belt on my ships be continued up to deck level? Could even forgo some belt armor as the torpedo belt seems far superior to the main belt.

Is there any way to avoid hitting the torpedo belt when aiming for citadels?

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25 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Grinding my Izmail. I end up less than 2K from a Fuso broadside with his guns pointed elsewhere and my AP loading soon so I anticipate a dev strike. Circle turns green and I let loose with all 12 guns.

End up with 1 Pen for normal damage and 6 torpedo belt hits for no damage (no idea where the other 5 shells went).

Can I have the torpedo belt on my ships be continued up to deck level? Could even forgo some belt armor as the torpedo belt seems far superior to the main belt.

Is there any way to avoid hitting the torpedo belt when aiming for citadels?

The torpedo belt did not stop your shells.  They penetrated the torpedo belt and then either failed to penetrate or bounced off of the main belt.  The game reports that event as a torpedo belt penetration.  It used to report it as a penetration for no damage which confused and frustrated people....so it was changed to Torpedo Belt Penetration which confuses and frustrates people....

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25 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Grinding my Izmail. I end up less than 2K from a Fuso broadside with his guns pointed elsewhere and my AP loading soon so I anticipate a dev strike. Circle turns green and I let loose with all 12 guns.

End up with 1 Pen for normal damage and 6 torpedo belt hits for no damage (no idea where the other 5 shells went).

Can I have the torpedo belt on my ships be continued up to deck level? Could even forgo some belt armor as the torpedo belt seems far superior to the main belt.

Is there any way to avoid hitting the torpedo belt when aiming for citadels?

Scroll out w/the mouse wheel when that close to ships for more accurate aiming.

Dispersion goes very wonky when that close while zoomed in

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2 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

They penetrated the torpedo belt and then either failed to penetrate or bounced off of the main belt.

Possibly. But it seems hard to believe an extra inch or so of armor is going to stop a penetration at point blank range. I guess the French spaced-armor has a similar effect. 

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10 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

But it seems hard to believe an extra inch or so of armor is going to stop a penetration at point blank range.

Stop? No. Take some of the energy off and change the angle of a shell? Yes.

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Stop? No. Take some of the energy off and change the angle of a shell? Yes.

Which makes me wonder why, IRL, all these naval designers didn't incorporate an extra layer of spaced armor. I think it recent popularity is more due to HEAT type rounds that can burn thru a single plate.

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2 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Which makes me wonder why, IRL, all these naval designers didn't incorporate an extra layer of spaced armor. I think it recent popularity is more due to HEAT type rounds that can burn thru a single plate.

Decapping plates are a real thing.

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19 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Possibly. But it seems hard to believe an extra inch or so of armor is going to stop a penetration at point blank range. I guess the French spaced-armor has a similar effect. 

Well, your shells can penetrate the torpedo belt and fail to penetrate the rest.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Possibly. But it seems hard to believe an extra inch or so of armor is going to stop a penetration at point blank range. I guess the French spaced-armor has a similar effect. 

It depends on the angle.  Without a replay to look at we can only guess, but it is entirely possible that the Fuso was more angled than you thought and the shells bounced off of the belt.

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4 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Scroll out w/the mouse wheel when that close to ships for more accurate aiming.

Dispersion goes very wonky when that close while zoomed in

Agreed.

Today I, for the very first time, tried not zooming in all the way while playing DDs. It seemed to make a great improvment in my gunnery.

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5 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Which makes me wonder why, IRL, all these naval designers didn't incorporate an extra layer of spaced armor. I think it recent popularity is more due to HEAT type rounds that can burn thru a single plate.

They did.  The South Dakota class Battleships only have outer hulls 32mm think, with an internal armor belt being 310 mm.  This came with a large number of drawbacks, but the result was that the South Dakotas had less tonnage and were resistant to 16" shells, while the North Carolinas were larger and only resistant against 14" shells.

Edited by Sventex
mm

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5 hours ago, Helstrem said:

The torpedo belt did not stop your shells.  They penetrated the torpedo belt and then either failed to penetrate or bounced off of the main belt.  The game reports that event as a torpedo belt penetration.  It used to report it as a penetration for no damage which confused and frustrated people....so it was changed to Torpedo Belt Penetration which confuses and frustrates people....

Yep.  For BBs, the torp belt / TDS is what?  32mm or something like that?  But there's still the Armor Belt right behind it.

 

Izmail specifically however, doesn't have a torp bulge right at the waterline.  It's actually quite low.  The TDS is actually the yellow portion. 

shot-20-12-14-13-16-10-0775.jpg

The waterline is 300mm armor belt.  There's a very low 50mm angled deck behind that and behind even that, a 32mm citadel torpedo bulkhead.

shot-20-12-14-13-20-17-0388.jpg

Honestly, Izmail's Citadel protection is pretty terrible.  What likely happened with the OP is he fired at bounce angles still.  Sometimes, especially during the heat of a match, you *think* you got a full broadside shot, but you don't.  It's still angled enough where you will get bounced.  Sly players bait shots with the hull knowing they got angle to bounce the AP.

 

But a Replay attached would let us answer all questions.  What people say, think what happened may not be what actually took place.  There's details we miss at the heat of the moment, which can be crucial details.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Question is about the Fuso's citadel, though.

aimage.thumb.png.7b86b3d821ce2f552920aefe28bd2041.png

This extends above water to the casemates.

Then it has to penetrate the armor belt.

image.thumb.png.d84e74a4543e28943ffe10ec359b6e87.png

The belt extends below water, which reduces penetration, so it's very possible that waterline shots, where the citadel are located, were slowed by water, and penetrated the massive torpedo protection but not the additional 230-300mm of plate.

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7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Yep.  For BBs, the torp belt / TDS is what?  32mm or something like that?  But there's still the Armor Belt right behind it.

 

Izmail specifically however, doesn't have a torp bulge right at the waterline.  It's actually quite low.  The TDS is actually the yellow portion. 

shot-20-12-14-13-16-10-0775.jpg

The waterline is 300mm armor belt.  There's a very low 50mm angled deck behind that and behind even that, a 32mm citadel torpedo bulkhead.

shot-20-12-14-13-20-17-0388.jpg

Honestly, Izmail's Citadel protection is pretty terrible.  What likely happened with the OP is he fired at bounce angles still.  Sometimes, especially during the heat of a match, you *think* you got a full broadside shot, but you don't.  It's still angled enough where you will get bounced.  Sly players bait shots with the hull knowing they got angle to bounce the AP.

 

But a Replay attached would let us answer all questions.  What people say, think what happened may not be what actually took place.  There's details we miss at the heat of the moment, which can be crucial details.

The OP was in the Ismail, and shooting at a Fuso.

Fuso's Torpedo bulges are 26mm thick which overlap the 229mm to 305mm lower belt.

Some problems with shooting Fuso, or any ship built like her are.

Her sides and belt are curved, so you might be square on to part of her, and hit somewhere else and have to contend with an angle. You can never be completely broadside to all of her. This also means she can be angled to you, and you can pen her cheeks which won't be as angled.

She's got a bit of a turtleback at the ends of her citadel. The center is a box though.

 

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22 minutes ago, Sventex said:

They did.  The South Dakota class Battleships only have outer hulls 25mm think, with an internal armor belt being 310 mm.  This came with a large number of drawbacks, but the result was that the South Dakotas had less tonnage and were resistant to 16" shells, while the North Carolinas were larger and only resistant against 14" shells.

Actually the South Dakotas had an outer hull plate of 32mm STS which was designed to decap incoming AP rounds.  

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Could it be that the torpedo protection fused the shells and they exploded before even hitting the main armor? Perhaps the angle made the torp protection go above the fuse threshold.

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