Hosho nerf hammer planned...

[Jitta77]

ST 0.9.12, balance changes and changes to test ships, removal of Somers. - Development blog BETA (worldofwarships.com)

IV HŌSHŌ:

The number of torpedo bombers in a squadron lowered from 6 to 5;

The size of an attacking torpedo bomber flight lowered from 2 to 1;

The number of torpedo bombers on the deck lowered from 9 to 8;

Torpedo bombers restoration time increased from 59 to 71 s;

Maximum torpedo damage increased from 5,400 to 5,800.

IV LANGLEY:

Maximum torpedo damage lowered from 4,233 to 3,500;

The chance to cause flooding on torpedo hit reduced from 33% to 30%.

-----------------------------------

I guess this is one way to push the seal clubbers out of T4 CV?

[WarStore]

Good. But I wonder why the Rhein, which is probably the most OP of them all, was left untouched. Could it be that WG hasn't milked the german paper CVs enough?

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

So you only get to strike with one torpedo, but as balance you get to make five individual attacks assuming no plane losses.

4 minutes ago, Jitta77 said:

I guess this is one way to push the seal clubbers out of T4 CV?

By their complaints about this nerf will ye know them.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

Just now, WarStore said:

Good. But I wonder why the Rhein, which is probably the most OP of them all, was left untouched. Could it be that WG hasn't milked the german paper CVs enough?

Too new, not enough data.

The thing with the Hosho and Langley is that they can start both fires and floods, and stack damage over time on major targets, eventually overwhelming their damage control that way. Rhein's aircraft cannot set fires at all, and the only way she can stack DOT is with floods from torpedoes.

[Usedcarjock]

Yeah when I played Hosho VERY briefly to work my way up the IJN CV line... yeah she’s broken. Ohohoho so very terribly broken. A well deserved nerf bat to the face.

[_Thanagor_]

2 minutes ago, WarStore said:

Good. But I wonder why the Rhein, which is probably the most OP of them all, was left untouched. Could it be that WG hasn't milked the german paper CVs enough?

Not really. Rhein is not nearly as strong as Hosho in the current version. 

[WarStore]

2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Too new, not enough data.

The thing with the Hosho and Langley is that they can start both fires and floods, and stack damage over time on major targets, eventually overwhelming their damage control that way. Rhein's aircraft cannot set fires at all, and the only way she can stack DOT is with floods from torpedoes.

Well, she doesn't need stacking, because the unhealable citadels sink the target way quicker than any fire could ever hope to do.

[Sabot_100]

Always thought another way to pull the rug out from under many of the clubbers would be to remove the "just grinding to T6" excuse and lower the XP needed to advance to T6 by half. Make the T4 CVs gain ship XP at twice the normal rate up until they have enough to upgrade to T6. Then it reverts to 3/4 XP.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

2 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

Yeah when I played Hosho VERY briefly to work my way up the IJN CV line... yeah she’s broken. Ohohoho so very terribly broken. A well deserved nerf bat to the face.

I ground Hosho in the bad old days when she still demanded 68K to get to Ryujo and hadn't got her two-torp buff yet. Probably the hardest time to be a Hosho captain; in the RTS era, the climb to the next tier - when your grind was eligible for directives - was only to Tier 5 and not as steep. 

I'm guessing the reduction in XP required to get out of the Hosho has prompted reflection that she no longer needs to be quite so lethal. 

4 minutes ago, WarStore said:

Well, she doesn't need stacking, because the unhealable citadels sink the target way quicker than any fire could ever hope to do.

Provided you can score citadels with them reliably.

I've played every CV line to at least Tier 8, and my experience is that it's far easier to get repeated floods and fires with carriers which have HE bombs, rockets and torps than it is to reliably get citadels with AP bombs, while AP rockets are exquisitely sensitive to bouncing if fired at anything other than a flat-broadside target. If you're constantly giving the flat broadside of your Tier 3 to 5 cruisers to a Rhein, you deserve what's coming to you.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

Just now, Sabot_100 said:

Always thought another way to pull the rug out from under many of the clubbers would be to remove the "just grinding to T6" excuse and lower the XP needed to advance to T6 by half. Make the T4 CVs gain ship XP at twice the normal rate up until they have enough to upgrade to T6. Then it reverts to 3/4 XP.

They pulled it down from 68,000 to 40,000 not that long ago - a significant and very appropriate reduction. If you're a clubber, you've been around for a while and your chances of having enough high-value camos and flags to power through the current Hosho grind in a day or two at most is pretty high. The only way to stop them would be to auto-research the Ryujo the instant the Hosho hits 40K XP and then lock the Hosho to co-op.

[WarStore]

6 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Always thought another way to pull the rug out from under many of the clubbers would be to remove the "just grinding to T6" excuse and lower the XP needed to advance to T6 by half. Make the T4 CVs gain ship XP at twice the normal rate up until they have enough to upgrade to T6. Then it reverts to 3/4 XP.

If I could skip tier 4 and 5 entirely without using my Free XP, I'd gladly do it.

[Sabot_100]

1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The only way to stop them would be to auto-research the Ryujo the instant the Hosho hits 40K XP and then lock the Hosho to co-op.

Hadn't heard about the existing reduced grind. So you don't think even lower Hosho earnings after reaching Ryujo would be a deterrent? 

[WarStore]

7 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I ground Hosho in the bad old days when she still demanded 68K to get to Ryujo and hadn't got her two-torp buff yet. Probably the hardest time to be a Hosho captain; in the RTS era, the climb to the next tier - when your grind was eligible for directives - was only to Tier 5 and not as steep. 

I'm guessing the reduction in XP required to get out of the Hosho has prompted reflection that she no longer needs to be quite so lethal. 

Provided you can score citadels with them reliably.

I've played every CV line to at least Tier 8, and my experience is that it's far easier to get repeated floods and fires with carriers which have HE bombs, rockets and torps than it is to reliably get citadels with AP bombs, while AP rockets are exquisitely sensitive to bouncing if fired at anything other than a flat-broadside target. If you're constantly giving the flat broadside of your Tier 3 to 5 cruisers to a Rhein, you deserve what's coming to you.

It wasn't hard to get 20, 25 citadels in a match. 

The biggest problem with rocket isn't angling ships, but islands. Anything between you and the target can thrown off your aim by several miles. 

 

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

1 minute ago, Sabot_100 said:

Hadn't heard about the existing reduced grind. So you don't think even lower Hosho earnings after reaching Ryujo would be a deterrent? 

Seal clubbers aren't in it for the credit or XP earnings; they're in it for the Krakens, High Calibers and Confederates, and for the boost to their overall win rate and damage numbers. 

[Sabot_100]

2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Seal clubbers aren't in it for the credit or XP earnings; they're in it for the Krakens, High Calibers and Confederates, and for the boost to their overall win rate and damage numbers.

True. I can feel slightly guilty playing <T5 ships in Coop unless I am grinding a line.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

6 minutes ago, WarStore said:

If I could skip tier 4 and 5 entirely without using my Free XP, I'd gladly do it.

Tiers 4 and 5 are not arduous to grind in co-op, if you want to keep your hands clean of newbie blood. Tier 5 in CV is avoided by T5 carriers simply not being a thing any more. If they were, you would probably find yourself facing Tiers 6 and 7 a lot, with ships that could put up a reasonable defence to your aircraft.

[Helstrem]

Good.  Tier IV CVs are, in general, ridiculously over lethal to the ships they are facing.

[Ironshroud]

Dropping down to only one torpedo per attack will be the biggest part of that nerf. I see the damage was nudged up by 400 points to somewhat counter this.

When it does come to randoms (only tried it out twice) it was a bit easy to run the Hosho, and I've been on the receiving end many times so I can see why something had to be done about her.

Interesting how the Langley (if I am remembering) still gets 2 torpedoes per drop, but they will do less damage instead. Those torpedoes are so slow however....

[Roken1]

one torpedo...wow, how will the indicator even look? Will it just be a guaranteed torpedo hit and you get 5 runs per flight instead of 3? 

[Ironshroud]

44 minutes ago, Roken1 said:

one torpedo...wow, how will the indicator even look? Will it just be a guaranteed torpedo hit and you get 5 runs per flight instead of 3? 

If I were to assume, it would work the same as if you were on your last attack, and had one of the two planes shot down. You get a kind of triangle shaped indicator that narrows as you go.

And I guess it will have 5 runs, maybe in practice, depending on the target, it will be more like only 4 if you lose a plane.

[Pay_Your_Torpedo_Tax]

Not really a nerf though is it. That fact it will be back to pre buff strength levels makes me laugh. I was still able to almost get 30 cits a game and reach above 100k consistently in it. 

[eviltane]

2 hours ago, WarStore said:

Good. But I wonder why the Rhein, which is probably the most OP of them all, was left untouched. Could it be that WG hasn't milked the german paper CVs enough?

 

2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Too new, not enough data.

The thing with the Hosho and Langley is that they can start both fires and floods, and stack damage over time on major targets, eventually overwhelming their damage control that way. Rhein's aircraft cannot set fires at all, and the only way she can stack DOT is with floods from torpedoes.

ON the Weekly rankings  Rhein sits at 26 K avg damage that is within 1k avg damage of both  Langley at 27k and and Hermes also at 26k. All three of those sit right around 50% WR.   However Hosho sits at 36K avg damage and 54% WR. The same holds true when looking at the last 2 month avg. 

 

With those numbers in mind its quite obvious  why Hosho got nerfed and the others didn't as it is clearly performing well above the other CVs. 

[AdmiralFox08]

makes me glad i got my ryujo a while back so i can skip this new supernerfed hosho

[Yoshiblue]

I personally want a nurf to AP bomb damage. Its easy to get chain citadels with the Hosho. 

[Patton5150]

Biggest issue with tier 4 CVs was amount of matches with 2 CVs on each team.  WG would have done better to just place a 1 CV per team limit in MM.