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Herr_Reitz

Tier X Conq versus Repub

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Having fallen back into BBs, like so many others, I need to make a choice between the RN's top bulldog and the French top poodle. Costs moving into T9 and T10 are roughly the same. 

Where do you guys fall - as to preferences? IIRC the Conq is like an HE Spam supreme... but I'm not so sure what the Repub is known for these days. If you were to compare them to other ships, which ships would be similar? 

In general too, what do you think about the best way to engage them in battle? 

Look forward to your input and discussions. tiafyc 

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I have both, I like the conq even more than the Thunderer. The HE salvoes are consistent damage dealer and the heal is great. I think the repub is similar to the Graf Spee. While I rally like the Graf at T6 cruiser I am not a fan of the gun set up on repub.

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Repub is a tough ship to play. I’ve had some great games but a lot of bad ones too. The turret layout makes angling against multiple targets tough and you should really just forget about the rear one, but that nerfs your fire power so much! It plays well from long range to mid. If you play a secondary build then you can close range in the late game against individual targets. The secondaries do tend to get knocked out through out the match however. I switched to a survival build and have had more consistent results. If you close range too early you will get focused and melted very fast. The hull feels about as durable as Thunderers. Which isn’t durable 🤣. I really want to love repub, but I’d take Thunderer over it any day. I know that’s not a direct comparison to Conq, but it’s what I have to offer. 

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I only have the Rebu but if your aim is a little suspect as mine is then she is a tough ship to play . Hits hard but I don't hit often enough with her gun turret lay out . But if you have good aim she does serious damage when you hit something .

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For me, Republique is more interesting. The citadel protection is better than Conquerer's which allows you to push in and brawl. In addition, Republique has those fast-reloading guns which are pretty snappy. They also have 30 mm overmatch and great penetration, things the Conq lacks. While you can get great damage sniping HE in the back with Conq, it is kind of boring. You also have to consider the grind overall. FR bbs are, to me, much more interesting and diverse. IMO, many of the of the RN bbs are either mediocre or crap (see Monarch and Lion). On the other hand, the whole French bb line brings something unique, from Richelieu's turret setup and range, to Lyon's 16 guns. 

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There's some big pro's and con's between Conkeke and Republique.

 

Republique

+ Fast.

+ 430mm+ AP have strong Overmatch benefits against Cruisers.  30mm sections that bounce 429mm and smaller AP get Overmatched by 430mm+.  If armor gets Overmatched, there are zero bounce checks.

+ FR BB AP tend to be strong in Penetration and Republique's are no slouch.

+ Engine Boost.

+ Strong Secondary Battery with good range and high fire chances if Sec.Spec is your thing.

+ Good reload.

+ Respectable Citadel protection.  Not German BB good, but better than USN, IJN, RN.

+ The FR 380mm quad gun turrets are easy to disable and destroy but Republique's gun turrets have better turret faces.  Another benefit to Republique's turret layout is that none of her turrets are sitting on tall barbettes that are easy to hit and disable, even destroy the turret above it.  Jean Bart, Richelieu, Alsace suffer heavily from this.

- FR BB Dispersion is the worst BB Line Dispersion in the game.

- 8 rifles max leaves plenty of chances for RNG to screw you over.

- Coated in 32mm exterior armor.  HE Spammers will focus you hard.  460mm+ AP will Overmatch you all over your ship.  Honestly?  When I did FR & RN BBs in Random Battles, I feared HE spammers more than I did other BBs.  That 32mm armor will get you HE DPM'd down QUICK.  It's not just Fires being set on you, it's the raw amount of HE Penetration Damage that's racking up on you.

 

Conqueror

+ The RN 419mm main battery isn't that accurate (Lion has the same guns, she has trash accuracy) but with TWELVE of them, you got lots of dice rolls to hit and do bad things to people.  This game has many examples where Low Sigma Battleships are still well liked because they throw so many shells to offset problems in accuracy.  Conqueror isn't a Low Sigma BB, and she still has 12 rifles.

+ Excellent HE & AP shell selection.  The HE shells are Mega HE with high HE Pen, very high HE alpha damage, high Fire Chances.  The AP is still good with the characteristic of short fused shells to try and get less Overpens.

+ Mega Repair Party.  One of the best Repair Parties in the game, PERIOD.

+ Decent Stealth.  This lets Conqueror break contact if things are looking bad.  While in stealth / disengaged, she can then lick her wounds with her powerful Repair Party and "print a new hull" and p*ss off her opponents.  IMO, her ability to bounce back from heavy damage is just as much a weapon as her guns.

- Low HP total for a Tier X Battleship.

- Exposed Citadel.  These 2 negative factors make Conqueror susceptible to harsh punishment by powerful AP users if she makes a mistake and get caught on her broadsides.  Conqueror is amazing in bouncing back from mere HE spam and regular Penetration damage, but catastrophic hits to the Citadel with AP are disastrous for her.  The exposed Citadel and low HP pool means she gets rocked really hard.  You can have a lot of HP then all the sudden, BAM!  You're close to death.

- Coated in 32mm exterior armor, just like all High Tier FR & RN BBs are.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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After some consideration, I decided to pursue the remainder of the RN tree and head for Conqueror. I have the Tier 8 FR BB and of course, Dunker and Jean Bart as well. But my RN BBs have lagged behind all my other lines.

Thanks everyone. The Lyon is in port and doing okay (first two honeymoon sails were wins, not bad matches, she did okay). I figure she'll be fun enough until I complete the coinage for the Conq. 

Appreciate the feedback folks! 

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The 32mm armor all over the place (extremities, deck armor, etc) on High Tier FR & RN BBs can be a real PITA when you got Yamato-class / Shikashima players picking you out.  460mm+ AP will Overmatch 32mm armor, so no amount of angling / bow on tactics will save you from eating AP Pens.

 

I still remember when the FR BB Line released Divisioning up with one of my buddies who loved Yamato.  All those brand new Republique owners?  Overmatch.  Overmatch.  Overmatch.  They could be angled, they could be bow on, it didn't matter.  He was getting non-stop Overmatch against all that 32mm armor.  Conqueror will suffer from 460mm+ AP because she too is coated in 32mm exterior armor.  It's even worse for Conkeke because her HP pool is low to begin with.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The 32mm armor all over the place (extremities, deck armor, etc) on High Tier FR & RN BBs can be a real PITA when you got Yamato-class / Shikashima players picking you out.  460mm+ AP will Overmatch 32mm armor, so no amount of angling / bow on tactics will save you from eating AP Pens.

 

I still remember when the FR BB Line released Divisioning up with one of my buddies who loved Yamato.  All those brand new Republique owners?  Overmatch.  Overmatch.  Overmatch.  They could be angled, they could be bow on, it didn't matter.  He was getting non-stop Overmatch against all that 32mm armor.  Conqueror will suffer from 460mm+ AP because she too is coated in 32mm exterior armor.  It's even worse for Conkeke because her HP pool is low to begin with.

Well I guess I'll find out soon enough. :cap_haloween: The Lyon is okay for three battles in, I have no serious complaints on her. One coop to determine how to outfit her, one win, one loss. The loss she topped out as #1 on the team with only 40K damage, if that tells you anything. The win was roughly 70K. 

I'll keep the armor issue in mind. Thanks. 

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One of the things that I do love in FR bbs is brawling. You'd think with the 32 mm and the low HP that brawling would be a death sentence, but the fast turrets (36 sec from T8 onwards), citadel protection, and the engine boost makes brawling a lot of fun. I had a 150k game in my Richelieu where I rushed a Soyuz and an Amagi and came out on top. I had another, silly game where a Petro tried to rush me, I flanked around him, he ran into a wall, and I citadelled him through the aft plates. That was pretty funny.

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7 hours ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

One of the things that I do love in FR bbs is brawling. You'd think with the 32 mm and the low HP that brawling would be a death sentence, but the fast turrets (36 sec from T8 onwards), citadel protection, and the engine boost makes brawling a lot of fun. I had a 150k game in my Richelieu where I rushed a Soyuz and an Amagi and came out on top. I had another, silly game where a Petro tried to rush me, I flanked around him, he ran into a wall, and I citadelled him through the aft plates. That was pretty funny.

FR BBs are pretty decent in the brawl.  The FR 380mm AP is powerful, especially if you get into shorter ranges.  The 430mm AP from Republique is even stronger.  Their Citadel protection as I mentioned earlier, is on the pretty decent side of things.  Not super good in a brawl like German BB Turtlebacks, but the FR Cits are way better protected than USN, IJN, RN, RU BB Citadels.

 

Case in point was a while back, a player was complaining that his Roma was knife fighting a Richelileu player and got 19 Overpens at 7.4km.  I went into why I felt that happened.  Roma has a lot of issues, but the power of her AP shells is not one of them... Usually.  FR BBs still need to protect their Citadels as the protection isn't as infallible as German BB protection is in a brawl.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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On 12/15/2020 at 6:25 AM, Herr_Reitz said:

Well I guess I'll find out soon enough. :cap_haloween: The Lyon is okay for three battles in, I have no serious complaints on her. One coop to determine how to outfit her, one win, one loss. The loss she topped out as #1 on the team with only 40K damage, if that tells you anything. The win was roughly 70K. 

I'll keep the armor issue in mind. Thanks. 

The armor issue affects the Republique more than anything due to her extreme rate of fire, making you always visible.  So, you're constantly being shot at.  The Richelieu and Alsace are also covered in that same thick coat of 32mm armor, but you hardly notice it because of your slower reload, giving you time to duck out of sight until your next shot.  Combine this with T10's higher DPM environment and it makes the Republique hard to play.  

I know you've made your line decision, but consider one more element; the T8/T9 experience.  The Richelieu/Alsace are objectively much, much, much better, more fun, and easier-to-play ships than the Monarch/Lion.

In the end, you'll have more fun playing the Conqueror.  You'll have more fun getting to the Republique.  

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Just an update - three total matches so far. Two were coop to figure out my equipment. This is my first random with the Conq

image.thumb.png.78a5a8c498cb26e02cd95f1f6f9ae8af.png

I have been surprised as to her accuracy at range. I admit a guilty pleasure in paying back all those so and so's who set me on fire over the past couple of years. Paybacks start today. :cap_haloween:

I do hope to progress higher in the incaps and fires. I did not fire one round of AP in the match above. 

Yes, it is indeed guilty pleasure. 

Thanks everyone for the discussion - I think this will be a solid long-term relationship until WoWS muffs with some aspect of her. 

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On 12/30/2020 at 10:47 AM, Herr_Reitz said:

Just an update - three total matches so far. Two were coop to figure out my equipment. This is my first random with the Conq

image.thumb.png.78a5a8c498cb26e02cd95f1f6f9ae8af.png

I have been surprised as to her accuracy at range. I admit a guilty pleasure in paying back all those so and so's who set me on fire over the past couple of years. Paybacks start today. :cap_haloween:

I do hope to progress higher in the incaps and fires. I did not fire one round of AP in the match above. 

Yes, it is indeed guilty pleasure. 

Thanks everyone for the discussion - I think this will be a solid long-term relationship until WoWS muffs with some aspect of her. 

Not to be an [edited], but that's not that good.  What you need to understand about flamethrowers like Conq is that fire damage is much less effective than AP damage.  For one all that fire damage can be repaired, and two since the damage occurs over a longer span of time they are much more likely to be able to repair it.  You can spend an entire match farming a Yammy for like 200k damage and still fail to kill it, meanwhile that Yammy can be dev striking your cruisers left and right, in fact a Yammy can dev strike 2 or 3 cruisers and still not break 100k damage but that will have far more impact on the match.

The good news is that Conq AP is actually really good for shooting cruisers which are your mortal enemy due to 32mm armor.  Shooting cruisers is actually the best way for a BB to affect a match because cruisers have highest DPM and can be deleted quickly by AP.  Additionally the Conq's concealment allows you to get to positions to where a cruiser is very easy to blast.

Finally the Conq's weakness in brawling is not the guns you can still get reliable 30k salvos with upper belt shots and can still citadel some ships if you shoot them correctly like relatively light armored USN BBs and Yammy (even cruisers will Cit Yammy).  The weakness is your own extremely vulnerable citadel (I've dev struck a Thunderer with an Amagi in a brawl), you really have to watch your angles and be prepared to only use six guns in order to protect yourself.  Also the trick to dueling an overmatch by Yammy is to actually give (slightly) more broadside than normal to bait shots at your belt which if still angled enough will bounce them.  Ofc if you give too much youre gone like the Thunderer to my Amagi so it's still not ideal to brawl.

Don't get me wrong HE has uses and its much better on conq than others, use it to deal with bow tankers and BBs at long range where your shells wont pen a broadside reliably anyway, mid range its also still better against BBs with any decent angle.  Invest in Expert Loader, its one point and makes a huge difference for being able to exploit both ammo types.  The HE is also obviously wonderful for DDs and since you have it loaded much of the time anyway you don't have opportunnity loss for using it on em like other BBs do.

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