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John370

Can I play with the good DDs?

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Getting a bit frustrated. 0-4 today, 4-13 yesterday and it was something similar Weds. whether I play well or poorly, it doesn’t seem to matter. The team with the better DDs win, and they haven’t been in my side much lately. Just topped my team, losing of course in a T10 game with my Mass, so I’m doing what I can but I still feel helpless to affect the outcome and it’s starting to get annoying. Your team loses all its DDs early, and you’re blind with no spotting, no hydro and no caps. The game might as well be over. I can’t play DDs, so I seem to be stuck hoping I get the good ones in my team. Is there a balance issue when one class (DDs) has such an outsized influence on the outcome?

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DDs are the hardest class to play. It’s really easy to die in a DD tier over tier which punishes the rest of the team as a result. There’s really no way to force bad DDs to not play.

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I can usually smell a loss in the first 60 of a T8 or greater game based on DD movement. High tiers are very dependent on team DD performance. That is why I NEVER play my DDs in Randoms, because I'm not nearly good enough to do so.

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3 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

DDs are the hardest class to play. It’s really easy to die in a DD tier over tier which punishes the rest of the team as a result. There’s really no way to force bad DDs to not play.

I don’t think having bad dd players not play is the answer, I think something might be done which prevents one class from having an outsized impact on the outcome. I don’t know what that might be. 

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1 minute ago, theLaalaa said:

I can usually smell a loss in the first 60 of a T8 or greater game based on DD movement. High tiers are very dependent on team DD performance. That is why I NEVER play my DDs in Randoms, because I'm not nearly good enough to do so.

I stopped grinding my only dd line (US) and T7 as it just wasn’t fun. Things happen too quickly. 

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18 minutes ago, John370 said:

Getting a bit frustrated. 0-4 today, 4-13 yesterday and it was something similar Weds. whether I play well or poorly, it doesn’t seem to matter. The team with the better DDs win, and they haven’t been in my side much lately. Just topped my team, losing of course in a T10 game with my Mass, so I’m doing what I can but I still feel helpless to affect the outcome and it’s starting to get annoying. Your team loses all its DDs early, and you’re blind with no spotting, no hydro and no caps. The game might as well be over. I can’t play DDs, so I seem to be stuck hoping I get the good ones in my team. Is there a balance issue when one class (DDs) has such an outsized influence on the outcome?

This may sound facetious, but I'm finding that playing DDs helps.

That way, I replace a likely spud with myself. I may not be much better, but I at least try to avoid stupid mistakes, and if it goes south, at least I can blame myself lol.

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5 minutes ago, John370 said:

I don’t think having bad dd players not play is the answer, I think something might be done which prevents one class from having an outsized impact on the outcome. I don’t know what that might be. 

Woe woe woe sparky.....I'm perfectly fine with the impact dds have on games :cap_cool:.I make videos on dd strategy, reviews , how to deal with radar,poor concealment, CVS..as a dd....the information is out there.... the reason dds have such an impact is because they can die so easily or play passive and not impact the game...my YouTube channel is meta_man2002 with most nations/tier ls dds  covered....

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Just now, John370 said:

I stopped grinding my only dd line (US) and T7 as it just wasn’t fun. Things happen too quickly. 

That's where I initially gave up on DDs too, Mahan wasn't really that fun to play.

If you bull through it and get Benson, trust me, it's worth it.

Or switch lines. IJN, RN, EU DDs are all fun from T5 on up. (FR is ok too, but until T8, you have guns that make Mahan's look like railguns lol) The T7s do tend to be lacking concealment a bit, but are still fun to play. And all have nice T8s waiting for you. In fact, out of all the T8 DDs I've played, (all but Oland and Ognevoi) only Z-23 is a dog.

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9 minutes ago, John370 said:

I don’t think having bad dd players not play is the answer, I think something might be done which prevents one class from having an outsized impact on the outcome. I don’t know what that might be. 

Why is it bad that a good player has such an impact on the outcome? Skill wins games, as it should. The superior destroyer should provide an exponential bonus over a team whose destroyer decides to drive into three radars and dies. The difference between a destroyer and a battleship player making a mistake is that the battleship player will survive 90% of the time.

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6 minutes ago, John370 said:

I stopped grinding my only dd line (US) and T7 as it just wasn’t fun. Things happen too quickly. 

I'm moving my DD lines along (all nations), but in co-op, and with the view of having them for snowflake-type events. When I want excitement I play my cruisers. When I want tea breaks between salvos I play my OK, KS, (and hopefully soon) MN.

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9 minutes ago, theLaalaa said:

I can usually smell a loss in the first 60 of a T8 or greater game based on DD movement. High tiers are very dependent on team DD performance. That is why I NEVER play my DDs in Randoms, because I'm not nearly good enough to do so.

Thing is though, with your game knowledge and acknowledgement of the need to balance aggression and passivity, you are good enough, compared to the masses.

Of course, that's when you find out that you can pull your weight, but can't carry lol.

I'm finding that my tactics and gameplay are decent, I just need to work on overall game awareness and tunnel vision. (which really gets me killed in a DD)

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2 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

That's where I initially gave up on DDs too, Mahan wasn't really that fun to play.

If you bull through it and get Benson, trust me, it's worth it.

Or switch lines. IJN, RN, EU DDs are all fun from T5 on up. (FR is ok too, but until T8, you have guns that make Mahan's look like railguns lol) The T7s do tend to be lacking concealment a bit, but are still fun to play. And all have nice T8s waiting for you. In fact, out of all the T8 DDs I've played, (all but Oland and Ognevoi) only Z-23 is a dog.

Thanks. My issue with DDs is the speed with which things happen. I like playing Kansas because the 40 second reload gives my time to think. I recognize this is an arcade game, but I don’t need my heart racing at 90bpm because my adrenaline has kicked in because I’m trying to trips, dodge trips, gunfire, and shoot every 6 seconds. It’s physically unpleasant. When I do play DDs, I’m passive and hence less effective, because I don’t want the drama that comes with being in the thick of it when you’re so vulnerable. 

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

Thing is though, with your game knowledge and acknowledgement of the need to balance aggression and passivity, you are good enough, compared to the masses.

Good DD play depends on finesse and intuition and fitting those to the boat you're in. I do not have those attributes for effective Randoms DD play.

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3 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Why is it bad that a good player has such an impact on the outcome? Skill wins games, as it should. The superior destroyer should provide an exponential bonus over a team whose destroyer decides to drive into three radars and dies. The difference between a destroyer and a battleship player making a mistake is that the battleship player will survive 90% of the time.

No issues with good players having an impact, it’s just that good players in one particular class have an outsized impact. The reason for this was well articulated above in another post, but the net effect is to lessen the agency of other classes and it also contributes to one sided matches. 

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33 minutes ago, John370 said:

Getting a bit frustrated. 0-4 today, 4-13 yesterday and it was something similar Weds. whether I play well or poorly, it doesn’t seem to matter. The team with the better DDs win, and they haven’t been in my side much lately. Just topped my team, losing of course in a T10 game with my Mass, so I’m doing what I can but I still feel helpless to affect the outcome and it’s starting to get annoying. Your team loses all its DDs early, and you’re blind with no spotting, no hydro and no caps. The game might as well be over. I can’t play DDs, so I seem to be stuck hoping I get the good ones in my team. Is there a balance issue when one class (DDs) has such an outsized influence on the outcome?

No. If the team doesn't shoot when the DD spots, or hangs in spawn to protect the border, the most gifted DD player cannot help them. 

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

No. If the team doesn't shoot when the DD spots, or hangs in spawn to protect the border, the most gifted DD player cannot help them. 

Very true. Conversely I’ve had a few matches lately when I needed some spotting and my DDs were behind me....

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Just now, John370 said:

Thanks. My issue with DDs is the speed with which things happen. I like playing Kansas because the 40 second reload gives my time to think. I recognize this is an arcade game, but I don’t need my heart racing at 90bpm because my adrenaline has kicked in because I’m trying to trips, dodge trips, gunfire, and shoot every 6 seconds. It’s physically unpleasant. When I do play DDs, I’m passive and hence less effective, because I don’t want the drama that comes with being in the thick of it when you’re so vulnerable. 

I totally get that, I was the same way.

What I'm finding though is, if you aren't hyper-aggressive, and plan before you engage, it's not bad at all. Basically, the adrenaline comes in short bursts, as ideally, you won't have to scramble much. Also depends what DDs you play. FR or RU DDs aren't as bad, as you typically play farther out, like a mini-CL.

TBH though, looking at your game count, you've got another 1500-2000 games until you get to the point where I decided to delve into DDs. So you may decide to get into them in future.

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A DD that tries to cap early in the game is a DEAD DD.  

Hang back , play that blue dash circle on the Mini map , keep the enemy out side of it as much as possible, tricky sometimes yes but it can be done. 

Be  the invisible spotter.  Be the invisible torpedo launcher.  Be the pr!ck tease and be annoying as can be.

It is possible to have fun as a DD.

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3 minutes ago, theLaalaa said:

Good DD play depends on finesse and intuition and fitting those to the boat you're in. I do not have those attributes for effective Randoms DD play.

Fair enough. 

I don't really have them either, (at least not at all consistently) I just plan to just keep slogging until I learn by osmosis lol.

I will say this though, when you pull off a good game, win or lose, I feel a lot more satisfied having done it in a DD.

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18 minutes ago, John370 said:

I stopped grinding my only dd line (US) and T7 as it just wasn’t fun. Things happen too quickly. 

You need to play IJN DDs, esp at T4-5. Minekaze is the best DD in the game, tier for tier. Better than most T6 and a couple T7 DDs.

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2 minutes ago, ErikTheVikingMoose said:

A DD that tries to cap early in the game is a DEAD DD.  

Not necessarily, I find that you just can't be determined to fast cap, you want to be timid. I'll often go in, turn around, and wait. If it looks like it'll get dicey, I speed boost out, and either pop smoke or hook around an island.

At that point, I'm fine to do other stuff and come back to it after the enemy has capped and moved on.

2 minutes ago, ErikTheVikingMoose said:

Hang back , play that blue dash circle on the Mini map , keep the enemy out side of it as much as possible, tricky sometimes yes but it can be done. 

Be  the invisible spotter.  Be the invisible torpedo launcher.  Be the pr!ck tease and be annoying as can be.

It is possible to have fun as a DD.

Yeah, being annoying is way more fun in a DD than anything else.

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5 minutes ago, ErikTheVikingMoose said:

A DD that tries to cap early in the game is a DEAD DD.  

Wrong.

6 minutes ago, ErikTheVikingMoose said:

Hang back , play that blue dash circle on the Mini map , keep the enemy out side of it as much as possible, tricky sometimes yes but it can be done. 

There is NO one way to play DD's. Overly passive play easily leads to being steam rolled. 

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

I totally get that, I was the same way.

What I'm finding though is, if you aren't hyper-aggressive, and plan before you engage, it's not bad at all. Basically, the adrenaline comes in short bursts, as ideally, you won't have to scramble much. Also depends what DDs you play. FR or RU DDs aren't as bad, as you typically play farther out, like a mini-CL.

TBH though, looking at your game count, you've got another 1500-2000 games until you get to the point where I decided to delve into DDs. So you may decide to get into them in future.

Ok. Good point. I need to be patient as my learning curve is still steep. 

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8 minutes ago, Pay_Your_Torpedo_Tax said:

There is NO one way to play DD's.

Are you sure. I have been informed many times in game chat by allied BBs that there is one way and I don't know it. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Pay_Your_Torpedo_Tax said:

Wrong.

Since you're here, let me ask you, is a cautious approach to early capping a good idea? As in, try it, but don't commit?' 

3 minutes ago, Pay_Your_Torpedo_Tax said:

There is NO one way to play DD's. Overly passive play easily leads to being steam rolled. 

I try to tailor my gameplay to the situation. At the very least, keep stuff spotted, and look for opportunities to be aggressive and get away with it. (I'm assuming better players can create these opportunities)

I'm also not (at this point anyway) focused too much about doing damage, since I figure it's better to keep a target spotted for others and do little to no damage, than to rush in, do a few K and die, letting the target go dark. Reward wise, I'm finding that a solo cap and a mediocre amount of damage nets me the same as a decent game in any other ship.

I think I'm learning, but it's tricky when one wrong move can get you blapped.

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