Vermont or Kleber?

[Usedcarjock]

I only have the funding to purchase one of these two ships. I enjoyed both Mogador and Minnesota. Halsey will captain the Vermont, and I’ll shift my Mogador captain over to the Kleber. I’m very interested in both ships, but CVs are the only thing that’s holding me back from pulling the trigger on the dd, while HE spam is holding me back from Vermont. What would kind forumites suggest I do?

[Burt6666]

I've been using vermont lately...I like it.

[eviltane]

12 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

I only have the funding to purchase one of these two ships. I enjoyed both Mogador and Minnesota. Halsey will captain the Vermont, and I’ll shift my Mogador captain over to the Kleber. I’m very interested in both ships, but CVs are the only thing that’s holding me back from pulling the trigger on the dd, while HE spam is holding me back from Vermont. What would kind forumites suggest I do?

Well if you are worried about the CV situation. We know that is not going to change if anything the new sill trees will make CVs stronger. As far as the HE spam goes the skill rework might change some of that in the near future. So realistically if you are sitting on a knifes edge it might lean you towards the Vermont. 

[AJTP89]

Sheesh, I don't think it's possible to have two more opposite ships

Kleber isn't as affected as much as other DDs by CVs because she's not all that concealment focused. If you like the T9s then both are good. I'd say flip a coin, you'll get the other one soon enough.

[Sovereigndawg]

Vermont allows you to get up and make a sandwich and get a beer, between shots.

[Uncle_Lou]

Haven't played Kleber, only up to Le Fantasque in the line and am struggling hard with the French DD play style.  On the other hand, Vermont has been a pleasant (and unexpected) surprise for me.  I had anticipated a huge lump of mediocrity, and while the ship is dreadfully slow the guns are very, very good and I am enjoying her much more than I thought I would.

[warheart1992]

43 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

I only have the funding to purchase one of these two ships. I enjoyed both Mogador and Minnesota. Halsey will captain the Vermont, and I’ll shift my Mogador captain over to the Kleber. I’m very interested in both ships, but CVs are the only thing that’s holding me back from pulling the trigger on the dd, while HE spam is holding me back from Vermont. What would kind forumites suggest I do?

Keep in mind that when it comes to Vermont the HE spam that holds you back from getting it also combos into CVs; from recent videos I have seen the AA on Vermont seem to get absolutely gutted by HE, turning this strong advantage and DFAA into just a means to lul you into a false sense of security.

Just by that I'd go Kleber for now. She's a ship a bit past it's prime but the occasional feeling of ambushing cruiser broadsides with AP and reload booster is pretty cathartic.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Vermont is hugely vulnerable to airplanes...yes, you might lose a plane or two more in the attack...maybe...

...but she is nigh on impossible to miss.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

59 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

I’m very interested in both ships, but CVs are the only thing that’s holding me back from pulling the trigger on the dd, while HE spam is holding me back from Vermont.

You will get them both eventually - it's not a Georgia vs. Thunderer question - so your concerns are very similar to asking whether you should fear becoming fat from unlimited richly-buttered popcorn or chocolate bars. Flip a coin and choose your poison. Consider that for all of Vermont's vulnerabilities, she is still likely to be more forgiving of gross mistakes than the destroyer and you might find yourself making those credits back faster.

Note that my position is as follows - I am almost exactly one tier behind you. I have only recently got both Mogador and Minnesota in my port, but am currently more in the mood to play slow heavy BB than fast DD and I have a preference (but not an absolute one) for co-op. Three or six months from now, that might abruptly flip and I could just as easily go on a Mogador rampage. 

[Laser_Beam]

Vermont - it's easier to spell

[Sventex]

1 hour ago, Usedcarjock said:

I enjoyed both Mogador and Minnesota. Halsey will captain the Vermont, and I’ll shift my Mogador captain over to the Kleber.

To be perfectly honest, I struggle to figure out how the Kleber is an upgrade from Mogador.  The concealment is worse, you now have 0.2km margin for stealth torping which makes it almost non-viable at this point.  Honestly I kind of regret moving my captain from the Mogador to the Kleber.  The torpedoes were more viable, the matchmaking was better and the Mogador was a real life ship.

[Skyspartan]

this is all i can think of for reason to choose one

Vermont

PROS

 CVs will bleed attacking you

Crusiers will fear you or get dev striked

BBs can be farmed by you

in between shots you can multitaks

CONS

if your team dies quickly so do you

DDs farm you and other fire spaming crusiers

your armor is only good at range

Kleber

PROS

55kts+ speedy cruiser with no cit

decent to high fire chance

fastest ship ever with great torping angles

CONS

many things can kill you

dont overextend

Crusiers scary

CVs kinda mean

you usally dont live too long

just be carefull

 

 

 

[Skpstr]

2 hours ago, Sventex said:

To be perfectly honest, I struggle to figure out how the Kleber is an upgrade from Mogador.  The concealment is worse, you now have 0.2km margin for stealth torping which makes it almost non-viable at this point.  Honestly I kind of regret moving my captain from the Mogador to the Kleber.  The torpedoes were more viable, the matchmaking was better and the Mogador was a real life ship.

That's good to know, I'm about halfway through Le Fantasque.

Not a big deal though, I've decided to stop at Kitakaze in that line, what's one more?

[DeletedUser]

I love to sink Vermonts as a DD cannot help it all that HP... whoo hoo. In any other class I don't particularly enjoy fighting it. But eh... 50% ram flag on the BB takes care of it soon enough. Its not going anywhere during final approach.

[__Riptide_]

Kleber,

Because it is fun to play and annoying for the enemy

[dagger1013]

3 hours ago, Sventex said:

To be perfectly honest, I struggle to figure out how the Kleber is an upgrade from Mogador.  The concealment is worse, you now have 0.2km margin for stealth torping which makes it almost non-viable at this point.  Honestly I kind of regret moving my captain from the Mogador to the Kleber.  The torpedoes were more viable, the matchmaking was better and the Mogador was a real life ship.

Also @Skpstr

The DPM. Mogador seriously struggles to dish out damage without MBRB active. Fully built for guns it has less HE DPM than a bone stock Ostergotland. 

Against DDs it's a wash, but when dealing with larger ships that you can't kill in a single reload booster it's quite noticeable. 

The gun angles. 

Mogador needs every ounce of fire it can get, which is problematic as it can only bring 3/4 turrets to bear when steeply angled, making kiting and chasing more difficult and making you an easier target. Kleber has massively better firing angles. 

The range. When you can't get close and assassinate targets, and are forced to open water gunboat, the range in Mogador is just ever so slightly not enough to comfortably do so against high velocity shells. I found myself running AFT on Mogador. 

Kleber's 13.6km range feels significantly more comfortable. 

And of course an extra torp tube per side. 

[Cicero__]

17 minutes ago, dagger1013 said:

Also @Skpstr

The DPM. Mogador seriously struggles to dish out damage without MBRB active. Fully built for guns it has less HE DPM than a bone stock Ostergotland. 

Against DDs it's a wash, but when dealing with larger ships that you can't kill in a single reload booster it's quite noticeable. 

The gun angles. 

Mogador needs every ounce of fire it can get, which is problematic as it can only bring 3/4 turrets to bear when steeply angled, making kiting and chasing more difficult and making you an easier target. Kleber has massively better firing angles. 

The range. When you can't get close and assassinate targets, and are forced to open water gunboat, the range in Mogador is just ever so slightly not enough to comfortably do so against high velocity shells. I found myself running AFT on Mogador. 

Kleber's 13.6km range feels significantly more comfortable. 

And of course an extra torp tube per side. 

Agreed. The gun angles in particular. In Mog, you have to give a lot of broadside to use all your guns. Kleber's angles are amazing. Did some quick tests, I think they are around 28 degrees, which is really good. The range is also an upgrade, and 1 extra torp per side doesn't hurt. The DPM is also improved, something like a 13% increase, which is sizable.

 

I'd pick up Kleber. It's a fun ship. I mostly say that because Vermont seems quite boring. Sure, you have good guns, but you have a 40 sec reload, you are slow as molasses and you are a huge, easy farming target. Ironically, Vermont is easy to farm for the Kleber. The slab sides make it easy to get 3-4k AP salvos.

[Sventex]

52 minutes ago, dagger1013 said:

Also @Skpstr

The DPM. Mogador seriously struggles to dish out damage without MBRB active. Fully built for guns it has less HE DPM than a bone stock Ostergotland. 

Against DDs it's a wash, but when dealing with larger ships that you can't kill in a single reload booster it's quite noticeable. 

The gun angles. 

Mogador needs every ounce of fire it can get, which is problematic as it can only bring 3/4 turrets to bear when steeply angled, making kiting and chasing more difficult and making you an easier target. Kleber has massively better firing angles. 

The range. When you can't get close and assassinate targets, and are forced to open water gunboat, the range in Mogador is just ever so slightly not enough to comfortably do so against high velocity shells. I found myself running AFT on Mogador. 

Kleber's 13.6km range feels significantly more comfortable. 

And of course an extra torp tube per side. 

Maybe I just ran my Mogador differently.  Because I could still make torpedo runs, I didn't run her as gunboat, I used her an assassin that would hunt DDs and destroy unsuspecting cruisers.  I would spend most of the battle with the guns silent.  I can't do this in a Kleber, the torpedo runs are just not worth it.

 

[JPower]

On 12/11/2020 at 6:12 PM, Sventex said:

Maybe I just ran my Mogador differently.  Because I could still make torpedo runs, I didn't run her as gunboat, I used her an assassin that would hunt DDs and destroy unsuspecting cruisers.  I would spend most of the battle with the guns silent.  I can't do this in a Kleber, the torpedo runs are just not worth it.

 

Sounds to me like you want a legendary upgrade Kleber.

[Sventex]

4 hours ago, JPower said:

Sounds to me like you want a legendary upgrade Kleber.

I'm not sure +80% to the main battery reloading time can make Kleber an assassin.  The Mogador can already pump a lot of AP shells into a broadside cruiser in a short span of time with reloaded booster active.

[Usedcarjock]

17 minutes ago, Sventex said:

I'm not sure +80% to the main battery reloading time can make Kleber an assassin.  The Mogador can already pump a lot of AP shells into a broadside cruiser in a short span of time with reloaded booster active.

He means more that the Kleber turns from a gunboat to a Torpedo boat.

[Sventex]

18 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

He means more that the Kleber turns from a gunboat to a Torpedo boat.

Might as well sail Mogador since I wouldn't have to burn research points to get a dedicated torpedo boat since Mogador can gunboat and vaguely torpedo at the same time.

[Freedomshells]

I have the Kleber and only played against Vermonts and along side them within the clan. I think Vermont is the better ship by far.