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Herr_Reitz

How long for your Tier X grind?

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So I'm curious if you have seen this video?  If not you might find it illuminating. I know I did. 

I would not have thought it possible but if you are willing to drop some RL coins, I guess anything is possible. 

This might help us understand why some of us believe the game skill levels/knowledge are going down the tubes. Oh, and of course, buy-able Tier X ships. 

tiafyc 

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My highest tier is 8 and it's a CV and barely play in randoms :Smile_hiding: Second highest is the Kongo tier 5 BB I want to get the Fuso :Smile_medal: But  I am grinding for Lexington I am close still need silver though :Smile_coin: Yes it's appalling but see wallet warriors think a lot of money will make up for their lack of skill :Smile_trollface: 

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27 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

This might help us understand why some of us believe the game skill levels/knowledge are going down the tubes.

Please be so good as to disclose the fact that the guy who did this has been playing for years and knows the game well. Even if it's a new ship type for him, he's going to be a far better player in it than someone who's just started.

Yes, there is a problem with people being able to get to Tier 10 sooner than they are ready for it, but the case for that is NOT helped by experienced, established YouTubers charging to Tier 10 as fast as they can to make an artificial point of it and pretending a newcomer could do just the same.

What he inadvertently did in this video was to make a case for the Research Bureau really not being all that onerous. If WG decides to tack 10-15 K RB points onto every incoming ship from now on and points to things like this as proof of how easy it is to complete full line resets, you will know who to blame. 

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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Rather longer: about 1900 random battles to get my first tier 10 (Montana)

I initially played February 2016 - Jan 2017 for about 1500 battles and deliberately mostly played around tiers 6-7, with only dipping into 8 with North Carolina. I was fine with mid-tiers
When I restarted playing in May 2019 I was rather more focused on grinding up to 10 and doing so on multiple lines and I've tending not to play lower tiered tech tree ships again.

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8 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Please be so good as to disclose the fact that the guy who did this has been playing for years and knows the game well. Even if it's a new ship type for him, he's going to be a far better player in it than someone who's just started.

Yes, there is a problem with people being able to get to Tier 10 sooner than they are ready for it, but the case for that is NOT helped by experienced, established YouTubers charging to Tier 10 as fast as they can to make an artificial point of it and pretending a newcomer could do just the same.

What he inadvertently did in this video was to make a case for the Research Bureau really not being all that onerous. If WG decides to tack 10-15 K RB points onto every incoming ship from now on and points to things like this as proof of how easy it is to complete full line resets, you will know who to blame. 

Individual should be able to discern he covers all your request for disclosure in the opening moments of his video. 

As far as being a better player - look at it this way - he told everyone who wants to grind, new or old, beginner or seasoned vet, a clear and precise means of grinding from a Tier I ship to a Tier X ship. 

So granted, someone new will take longer; that's a given. However, someone who's been grinding like forever would now understand how to move up much more quickly, with a bit of RL money and focused game-play. 

As to knowing who to blame, gee... are their any restrictions for buying a tier X ARP Yamato? 

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2 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

are their any restrictions for buying a tier X ARP Yamato? 

Right now, yeah, there are - you can't get her any more. She was sold for a very brief period at a very exorbitant price, and who knows when she will come back?

Meanwhile, what is to be done with the players who have countless thousands of battles and STILL suck at Tier 10?

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Cannon fodder you mean? 

It's an individual path. There may be physical limitations preventing them from getting better perhaps. I know for the longest time I could not get any citadels no matter how I tried. Long ago I began asking for the ability to assign the spacebar as a fire key. It made a HUGE difference in my in-game accuracy. 

It may be a mental restriction or limitation. I have no doubt there are many players who for one reason or another cannot advance any further then the state they find themselves at these days. No problem on my part either; things are the way they are. 

Jingles had a player the other day who was completely blind. She played the game with the assistance of two additional players. Awesome stuff there. Someone wants to play the game that much - then I am reminded of Santa Gift boxes. Too bad there's no humanity there. 

For those without physical or mental restrictions or issues that prevent them from improving to those higher levels of play, it falls entirely on their back. 

If they simply do not care, no amount of anything will make them care. 

But back to the point - WHEN the ARP was available were restrictions in place? Like minimum of X number of games at a certain tier? I don't recall seeing any such restrictions. Did they place any restrictions at the time? 

Yet, they reward "other" players by placing ships behind "steel restrictions" to encourage those players to play their clan battles. Eh? I would think the goal would be clan battles fuel themselves with no need to dangle restricted ships in front of the clan players. Apparently, not enough of a draw. 

I mean shoot, if ARP Yamato can be had for what, $150 to $200, why not and FDR for $200? 

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

So I'm curious if you have seen this video?  If not you might find it illuminating. I know I did. 

I would not have thought it possible but if you are willing to drop some RL coins, I guess anything is possible. 

This might help us understand why some of us believe the game skill levels/knowledge are going down the tubes. Oh, and of course, buy-able Tier X ships. 

tiafyc 

It  can be done for about  90 to 100 battles easy with no money, mainly if your a new player with friend invite.

I've been playing since Aug 10, 2020 today be 4 months and I have 8 Tier X's researched  but only made enough credits to buy 5 so far

3 premiums from invite, 3 from free containers and so far 1 coal ship, about to get another coal ship also

Edited by MillenniumDuck
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2 minutes ago, MillenniumDuck said:

It  can be done for about  90 to 100 battles easy with no money, mainly if your a new player with friend invite.

I've been playing since Aug 10, 2020 today be 4 months and I have 8 Tier X's researched  but only made enough credits to buy 5 so far

Excellent work on your behalf - congrats! 

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i take my time to get my tX's. i use very very very little FXP, and very few signals/camos until i get to tIX. then its usually commander signals/camos. I've been playing almost 4 years, and only have 17 tX's, of which 4 are premiums *including moskva*. The only ship i FXP'd past is the Riga, cuz i wanted the Petro for the anniversary super container. Its a very long grind as i usually work numerous ships at once. Currently i'm working guepard, lightning, brindisi and the captains on my Schornhorse B *omg spelling*, thunderer, smolensk and plymouth.

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I'll play from tier 5 or 6 usually. I used to insist on playing the entire line, but the double CV in 3/4 took that away from me; so I skip those now. Roughly 750,000 xp to grind through, lets say 5k a day (or one or two games in randoms) and were looking at about 150 - 200 games (you could cut that down farther if you only grind the required upgrades, I grind them all) which seems pretty accurate based on my stats or 4 or 5 months of casual play. I only use signals for the first win, and I don't use special signals unless I am in a hurry. Obviously if you are using all the signals you can up your first win to 10-20k xp pretty easily. 

I also use premium time, this helps. ALOT. I just received 60 days of it for being a Verizon customer, if you so happen to be. 

Edited by Pirate_Named_Sue

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I started* a few months ago when the anniversary event was going on. With the special flags and stuff from that, I got the Minotaur in about 80 games (and that was slowing down some and using fewer flags on the Neptune, because that ship and I did not jive). That was just playing F2P, as I was trying to see if I even wanted to get into the PC version. 22 games seems like a stretch, but another tier X in 50 or so games seems reasonable if I had the flags and credits though.

*have played a lot of Legends and Blitz prior to making the jump to PC, so I came in a lot more familiar with the game than the average noob.

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The US DD Line from T1 to Tx took me 5 years.

The last one was not completed (Gearing) until earlier this year. Part of the issue is supporting high tier play with credits and then xp etc. Not all of us are daily and nightly players. I am at this point in time for the last 6 months or so. The lockdowns pretty much left us with not much to do this year. Even if you wanted to go out it was not worth the trouble. Easier just to order it online to door.

T6 was the barrier across the board partly due to some limitations of the ships. Eventually T6 and up became the credit machine to support the T10 through scenario play. Later I learned to farm ranked for more of everything regardless of victory or defeat. (That no longer mattered.) Show up, sink something maybe take objective get bombed into oblivion and rake in the proceeds with next ship. Repeat. End of day or few hours, research ships. I have three trees being researched now with one being opened each month give or take. The rest of it goes into building 19pt commanders and completing select ships which causes a more rapid stockpiling of resources.

The one thing I will NOT do is regrind anything. I already went through it once and thats enough. I am grinding new trees but meh. I have been involved in large video games with a few approaching 10+ years of gameplay in accumulated hours etc. And those games were usually maxed out and moved forward every few months with the new stuff those devs build into the world. It helps because in for example STO there is a lifetime subscription with monthly income which one or two plays a year adds up to enough income to not need to spend real world cash on. In the game economy for anything. Although devs there have eliminated certain economic grinds that makes for very profitable ferengi style play crafting items to sell on exchange. Some of us plan 1 to 2 years ahead and prepare for the annual events etc with mountains of stuff to bring in enough income for the next gaming year.

What do I actually DO in STO? Well, I buy raw materials, assign the lab to build something until full of tasks. Log off for the three days wait until finished. Log in then for 5 minutes collect finished goods, reassign lab to craft more stuff and repeat back in three days. If bored maybe engage in battle for a few minutes. I dont do much now. Maybe 20 to 1 hour a week if that. SOmetimes a month or more goes by. They live on new gamers who are grinding out until they get to the top level and become able to do higher level gaming and that takes a couple of years of daily play. And so after 10 years they have a new generation of gamers able to sign up and hand over the real world money and engage. Ugh.

Wows on the other hand has a economy that does not support itself. You can play free with whatever you are issued and thats that or end up buying whatever you need to be able to evolve in game play and get into the nuances of whats possible. The recent use of RP is fairly recent and gating of certain ships behind a price that for example the Somers at 18000 steel. Pretty cheap right? Well all of 2020 I have just about 4000 steel built up. There is 30 ships with prep for the possible snow flake event to harvest more steel. Depending on how it goes I may be able to finish it a month or two. Instead of about 1.2 years at my current steel accumulating rate. (40 a day if I play daily.) Ive a ways to go. Im pretty sure by the time I get to that sysiphian stone to the top of that hill, something else will be introduced by devs. Forget the bigger steel ships which will take years. With my own medical situation I dont plan on years. I could easily be gone in way less than that. Does that matter? No.

I decided to complete commanders, that might take into summer of 21. When all of them are done then by the end of 21 going into 22 the ships will be well positioned to harvest so much with the idea of researching the rest of the entire game supply of ships to T10 in 23. At that point I think there will be too many ships to play in one day. You can only play one at a time and there is 24 hours in a day so certain ships will be sold off and replaced by carefully selected ships with 19's ready for them for a dab of gold coin to retain to it. Or 21 point commanders rather. A slight adjustment into the hitched getalong.

Things changed here in Wows in the last 5 years. And maybe not all for the better. A beginning player just signed up and is a nooblet for a while has alot to learn. And many of those will be clubbed by veteran players going back to T4 to play the epoch missions campaign finds it easy to club seals. Ive exactly one T4bb, thats the Japanese one. It has never been sunk yet.  I remember when I first gained T4 I got sunk alot. And now with the CV's in the t4 with the crappy airdefenses? Yes Charlie you are going to get sunk. alot.

Edited by xHeavy

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~700 Battles, highest tier ships are Zara (italian t7 CA), Yorck (german t7 CA), and N. Carolina (us t8 BB)

Edited by AdmiralFox08

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I split time between WoWs and WoT, and am mostly a co-op player at this point.  So probably it shouldn't be a surprise that I only completed one tech tree push to tier 10 in the time I've been in WoWs, and that was to the Moskva right before it switched to a coal ship.  

Currently I have 3 tier 9s, one of which was a direct benefit of the Cleveland moving to tier 8.

My initial idea in ships was to do as I did with tanks; a minimum number of battles in each.  But directives being added kind of pushed me to get my tech tree advances to tier 5 as soon as possible to maximize my chances to get the full benefits there.  So having done that, I have no real push/grind going on towards tier 10, especially since I have the Moskva, Smolensk, and Thunderer.  So bottom line is how long for a tier 10 for me?  As long as my plodding along takes; it's the journey, not the ending that keeps my interest.

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Interesting video, and quite an accomplishment.  This is fairly typical in other games I've played, where experienced players try to set records for the grind from "rolling a new character" to level cap.  It's a different challenge when they are needing a change of pace from the typical play.  But IMO it's fairly meaningless in terms of worries about bad players at high tiers.  A few thoughts/questions that came to mind as I watched this:

He acknowledges he's not trying to do this a a free to play player.  He's got a premium account and he bought several bundles of premium Kriegsmarine containers.  I wonder why he bought that type of container.  I'd guess it was just the container type for sale at the time, but possibly they have more useful drops than average (probably not)? 

Later he says it would have taken him 3 more battles if he hadn't bought the containers because of the 70k FXP.  What he forgets about is all of the camos and signals that came in those containers.  I suspect that without those containers it would have taken considerably more than a few more games.  You don't get many camos and signals as a new player with 22 games.

I didn't hear him mention how he handled credits (maybe I just missed it).  His highest payout battle (that I noticed in his screenshots) was about 750k credits.  If he averaged that much for all 22 of his battles (I'd be surprised if he did), it would be 16,500,000.  The Zao (T10 ship) costs 17,200,000 with my clan discount (20,000,000 without discount).  I think he has shown that it is possible to earn (and limited buy) enough XP and FXP to get to T10 that quickly, but I don't think a new player can do it unless they also spend a significant amount to buy credits.  Most players run into this - having enough XP to research the ship but no credits to buy it, let alone the upgrades and modules.

Probably the biggest thing is the experience, skill and game knowledge difference between Sea Lord Mountbatten and a new player.  A new player that can grind his way from T1 to T10 in less than 50 battles probably isn't the bad player you're trying to keep out of T10, or he wouldn't be able to do it in that few battles.  Being able to buy a T10 ship (or the resources to allow jumping to T10 very quickly) is a different problem.

Again, I think this is an impressive accomplishment.  But you shouldn't balance the grind of a game based on the optimal performance a very skilled and experienced player can accomplish.  If you do, I suspect you'll find far fewer new players sticking with the game.  And many experienced players already complain that the grind is too much to make the research bureau worth messing with.

It's an interesting video but doesn't really have any relevance to problems with lack of skill of players at high tiers.

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Recently the game had congratulated me on playing the game for a year though I really got started in about February~March of this year

In that time I've researched three Tier X ships the Venezia Montana and Yueyang in that order and bought the Montana and Yueyang in that order.

I'd like to also point out Credits have been the main limiting factor by a lot in acquiring new ships. I don't have many good premiums

Edited by TaxDollarsAtWork

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One issue w/ the vid, he used the spring sky camo which wasn't needed when the 59s do the exact same XP modification.  Would have been better w/ out ultra rare / prem special camos that crates don't drop, and cannot be purchased.   Granted he burned the FXP as part of the process, the vid was still off due to this fact.  Was moot to give limitations for average players, only to pull out spring sky. 

Edited by CV_Jeebies

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23 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Did they place any restrictions at the time? 

No, they didn't - apart from price, perhaps! How many ARP Yamatos are you seeing in Tier 10 at the moment? Did it really make a difference?

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10 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

No, they didn't - apart from price, perhaps! How many ARP Yamatos are you seeing in Tier 10 at the moment? Did it really make a difference?

I see a few here and there. Some do well, some try to solo bow tank 3 ships and get melted.

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I don't play premium, and acquiring the credits is the limiting factor. I play 1-2 hours a day and once I get the tier 9 it takes about a month to get to 10. Often I sell my losers to speed the process. All that said, I don't find 10 that entertaining to play. I usually play flag-heavy to bring my captain skills up not collect money for the next tier. I'm tempted to try what he did without spending any money.

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On 12/10/2020 at 7:21 AM, Herr_Reitz said:

So I'm curious if you have seen this video?  If not you might find it illuminating. I know I did. 

I would not have thought it possible but if you are willing to drop some RL coins, I guess anything is possible. 

This might help us understand why some of us believe the game skill levels/knowledge are going down the tubes. Oh, and of course, buy-able Tier X ships. 

tiafyc 

with 'Murica Camo (USN BB event camo) and all signals mounted, I was making up to 15k XP + 13k FXP for wins in a Tier 8 Cleveland, everyone can do the math on that. I went from a half grinded Cleveland with 30 games to a Seattle in just a few hours (3 hours to be exact). I'm in a seattle, and have almost 400k FXP (Made about 200k FXP since using this strat from Mountbatten since last week). Like Mountbatten showed, it sure doesn't take very  long to tier X.  

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