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Sammy_Small

Hosho's Torpedoes Do Way More Damge Than They Are Supposed To

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Langley's torpedoes have a maximum theoretical damage of 8466 per drop (2 torps ).

In game/ testing grounds the typical damage is from 6400~6600

AND highest possible of 6840 ( both torps hitting a mid ship on a CL with 0% torp bulge, and no damage saturation )

[ ( 6400 + 6840) / 2 ] / 8466 = ~ 0.782 damage modifier for torpedoes. 



Hosho's torpedoes have a maximum theoretical damage of 10800 per drop (2 torps ).

In game/ testing ground the typical damage is mostly ~9500

AND max damage is  ~9700 ( both torps hitting a mid ship on a CL with 0% torp bulge, and no damage saturation )

[ ( 9500 + 9700 ) / 2 ] / 10800 = ~ 0.888 damage modifier for torpedoes.

This seams a bit too high considering the "Alpha" damage of Hosho's torpedoes and the fact that it can "Devastating Strike" most low tier DDs when both torpedoes hit the mid section of a ship.



P.S. Alternatively Langley's torpedo* damage is too low and it needs* a "buff" :cap_book:

Edited by Sammy_Small
P.S*.
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1 hour ago, Sammy_Small said:

Langley's torpedoes have a maximum theoretical damage of 8466 per drop (2 torps ).

In game/ testing grounds the typical damage is from 6400~6600

AND highest possible of 6840 ( both torps hitting a mid ship on a CL with 0% torp bulge, and no damage saturation )

[ ( 6400 + 6840) / 2 ] / 8466 = ~ 0.782 damage modifier for torpedoes. 



Hosho's torpedoes have a maximum theoretical damage of 10800 per drop (2 torps ).

In game/ testing ground the typical damage is mostly ~9500

AND max damage is  ~9700 ( both torps hitting a mid ship on a CL with 0% torp bulge, and no damage saturation )

[ ( 9500 + 9700 ) / 2 ] / 10800 = ~ 0.888 damage modifier for torpedoes.

This seams a bit too high considering the "Alpha" damage of Hosho's torpedoes and the fact that it can "Devastating Strike" most low tier DDs when both torpedoes hit the mid section of a ship.



P.S. Alternatively Langley's torpedo* damage is too low and it needs* a "buff" :cap_book:

They are not supposed to be equal, as each tech tree CV line has a flavor if you will.

USN is about HE dive bombers that are useful against anything, Very good rocket planes, and what I will call a basic torpedo.

IJN is all about having a hard hitting, fast, long ranged torpedo, AP dive bombers that used to be pretty good, and the less said about the rocket planes the better.

RN is all about the carpet bombers, with really good rockets, and short ranged, very handy torpedoes.

All of these have rockets as anti-DD weapons, with torpedoes and bomb best against everything else.

KM is all about doing things wrong, where the AP rockets are anti-cruiser, torps are anti-DD, and AP dive bombers are anti-BB.

 

At low tiers, DD's have little to fear from any air dropped torpedo as most DD's are really tiny and turn on a dime.

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1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

At low tiers, DD's have little to fear from any air dropped torpedo as most DD's are really tiny and turn on a dime.

Are you sure about that?

Spoiler

shot-20_11.22_18_02.29-0842.thumb.jpg.be724df8597baab1fae715f77e15d8b9.jpg

Would you like to know more? : https://replayswows.com/replay/114526#stats

That is not the first time or the last time, this is normal occurrence as far as I am concerned ( even if DD manages to dodge all 3 drops they are still being spotted and are forced to sail a predictable path, "maneuver kills" into islands are a thing )



The "Issue" is not the "CV flavor balancing", but the the fact that damage modifiers are inconsistent across Tier 4 CVs.

I am willing to  make a guess that Hermes and Rhine have torpedo damage modifiers closer to that of a Langley than a Hosho.

As in the 5200 listed damage on a Hermes in reality never goes higher than a 4200 damage ( and it only has a single plane torp per drop )

Rhine has 2 torpedo planes per attack but with 3000 max per torpedo the actual damage is 4500~4800 max if both hit the mid section of a ship....



Torpedo Planes are the most potent weapon of Tier 4 CVs while the other plane types are "meh" at best.

What I am trying to say Hosho's torpedoes deal entirely too much damage, and they need a "nerf" to their damage output.

Because plane return speed "nerf" that was implemented previously is not a nerf, it just makes it easier to "juggle" 18 torpedo planes by the 10 minute mark of match.
The torpedo speed was reduced from 50 knots to 40 knots, meant that you just take torpedo acceleration and still throw torps all the ships. 

P.S.
Let me save people the trouble looking up my stats:
https://worldofwarships.com/en/community/accounts/1022536036-Sammy_Small/!/pvp/ships/?bestShip=h_14Dsh_14D
 https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1022536036,Sammy_Small/

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36 minutes ago, Sammy_Small said:

Are you sure about that?

  Reveal hidden contents

shot-20_11.22_18_02.29-0842.thumb.jpg.be724df8597baab1fae715f77e15d8b9.jpg

Would you like to know more? : https://replayswows.com/replay/114526#stats

That is not the first time or the last time, this is normal occurrence as far as I am concerned ( even if DD manages to dodge all 3 drops they are still being spotted and are forced to sail a predictable path, "maneuver kills" into islands are a thing )



The "Issue" is not the "CV flavor balancing", but the the fact that damage modifiers are inconsistent across Tier 4 CVs.

I am willing to  make a guess that Hermes and Rhine have torpedo damage modifiers closer to that of a Langley than a Hosho.

As in the 5200 listed damage on a Hermes in reality never goes higher than a 4200 damage ( and it only has a single plane torp per drop )

Rhine has 2 torpedo planes per attack but with 3000 max per torpedo the actual damage is 4500~4800 max if both hit the mid section of a ship....



Torpedo Planes are the most potent weapon of Tier 4 CVs while the other plane types are "meh" at best.

What I am trying to say Hosho's torpedoes deal entirely too much damage, and they need a "nerf" to their damage output.

Because plane return speed "nerf" that was implemented previously is not a nerf, it just makes it easier to "juggle" 18 torpedo planes by the 10 minute mark of match.
The torpedo speed was reduced from 50 knots to 40 knots, meant that you just take torpedo acceleration and still throw torps all the ships. 

P.S.
Let me save people the trouble looking up my stats:
https://worldofwarships.com/en/community/accounts/1022536036-Sammy_Small/!/pvp/ships/?bestShip=h_14Dsh_14D
 https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1022536036,Sammy_Small/

None of the CV lines are supposed to be the same. The all do different damage, have different ranges and speed, and have different soft stats.

Rhine's torps are anti-DD weapons, so of course they are lower damage. If her bombs overpen everything, then you murder stuff with rockets.

Hosho does more damage with torps, but they have a longer minimum range, so the target has more room to dodge, but the same amount of time to react because the torps are faster. With the longer arming distance, there's also a lot of the map where she can't drop torpedoes where other CV's could.

Hermes isn't supposed to be really using torps, but they have a short range, and a shorter arming distance, so you get them between islands and the target easier, ect...

Throwing TA on torpedoes increases the arming distance proportionally, so it doesn't really help a CV at all. The targets reaction time remains exactly the same, and you've given them more room  to dodge.  TA is effectively a trap skill for CV's, it sounds like it will be a help, but really does nothing for you at all.

Langley's and Hermes's bombs actually work on low tier ships, where's Hosho's really don't. (very little has enough armor at that tier to arm them)

 

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I understand that "In Theory" the different plane types have different ordnance for different target types:
HE Rockets are anit DD.
AP Rockets are anti CL/CA ( or CV if opportunity presents it self ).
HE Bombs do "OK" against most targets assuming they hit.
Torpedoes are best against larger and slower ships. ( unless it is a German CV, in theory )

... BUT...
This is what a "normal" Hohso game looks like for me... ( spreadsheet says they had fun :Smile_trollface: )

Spoiler

shot-20_12.07_14_10.46-0524.thumb.jpg.ec803c859aff0cb8471477baaef38c5f.jpgshot-20_12.07_14_11.05-0403.thumb.jpg.ea04f2533f1b43ebb72723568ba1e5a1.jpgshot-20_12.07_14_11_11-0029.thumb.jpg.ad5b8d311eabcda8acd57f1f0c1b95a9.jpg
 


The point I am trying to make Hosho may be just a "tad too^ oppressive" to play against at lower tiers, with its 88~90% torpedo damage modifier*, especially in a hands of a semi-skilled player.
The rest of tier 4 CVs no where near as capable / "oppressive" with their ordnance ( Rhine maybe close with its AP bombs, if both bombs hit citadel ) and most of them only have 75~80% damage modifier* on their torpedoes.

... I guess ... " Clubbing of baby seals will continue until the sales of higher tier premiums improve " ~ someone at marketing probably. 

* meaning they hit for % of their maximum listed damage.

Edited by Sammy_Small
speling^

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16 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Langley's and Hermes's bombs actually work on low tier ships, where's Hosho's really don't. (very little has enough armor at that tier to arm them)

ah ah ah! you forgot the part about hosho AP bombs citadelling t3 battleships!

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1 hour ago, AdmiralFox08 said:

ah ah ah! you forgot the part about hosho AP bombs citadelling t3 battleships!

Works when you don't overpen them,  which is the norm. They are actually are more useful when Hosho's bottom tier, and there's tier 5's to hit. They're far more restrictive than the HE bombers, which are useful against anything you can hit with them.

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