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oceantwentyfive

Asashio versus Shimakaze

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Good morning. I am playing the Asashio and I love it. I like the scouting role, cap, and the torpedo ambush part. I am going now for Tier X DD. I see that the last torpedo destroyer in the line is the Shimakaze. Same torpedo long-range than the Asashio, little bit less concealment, but globally it is the same type of boat. I assume that being a tier 10 it must be better than the Asashio. She is definitely faster and her torpedos are efficient against all ships and not only BB. Is she really the big sister of the Asashio?

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They aren't the same "type" of ship in the way you're thinking. They can't do the same things, and they shouldn't be played the same. Shima can use her torps to save herself, Asashio can't. Asashio also has pretty much no AA, so she's CV food, and she's slow, so getting away after being found is much more difficult. More, Shima's torps have high detectability, whereas Asashio's are quite low and difficult to avoid. Asashio is dangerous to a BB, Shima is dangerous to everything. Shima also has much better guns.

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They are different...Shima being a tier 10 sees much more radar because azathioprine can see tier 6 a portion of the time and at tier 6/7 radar isn't as abundant as in the pinnacle tier....I wouldn't use the 20 km torps on the Shima (torp detection) id use the 12 km fish...Shima is towards the bottom of the global winrates for tier 10 dds but used quite often in ranked/clan battles also....She can be used better than what her winrate suggests but you have to stick to her role.....in the same breath not be a coward in the back either....

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What makes Asashio good is having great torps

  • short reload
  • reload booster
  • 20km range
  • Fast torps
  • massive damage
  • small detection range of the torps (giving targets no time to dodge them)

Shimakaze on the other hand is pretty mediocre these days, most of the time your going to be in full tier 10 games and you going to have to deal with alot of radar/hydro/cv's spotting you constantly and because you have to be alot closer to your targets (12km torps are really your only viable option) as the 20km torps get detected from the moon. You can have good games in the Shimakaze but relying on mediocre torps to do 99% of your damage at t10 in this meta is ruff. some games you will not hit a single torp.

 

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26 minutes ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

They aren't the same "type" of ship in the way you're thinking. They can't do the same things, and they shouldn't be played the same. Shima can use her torps to save herself, Asashio can't. Asashio also has pretty much no AA, so she's CV food, and she's slow, so getting away after being found is much more difficult. More, Shima's torps have high detectability, whereas Asashio's are quite low and difficult to avoid. Asashio is dangerous to a BB, Shima is dangerous to everything. Shima also has much better guns.

Something worth considering is that the Asashio is just a specialized version of the Kagero.  It's just a Kagero with different torpedoes that are deadly against BBs (and CVs) but nothing else.

The Kagero is a better DD to compare to the Shimmy for this reason.  The Shimmy is a better DD, across the board, than the Kagero, but they do play similarly to some degree, since both are torp boats.

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Trying to compare apples to oranges here... Asashio has a very specific role in the game, hunt BBs & CVs. Her stealth makes her great at spotting for her team which is also a big help. She has no AA to speak of. Her guns are strong in the right conditions but you don’t go looking for a gun fight. An Asashio on the run wiggling and shooting her four rear guns is a tough target to kill IMO. 

The Shimmy was the torp queen but not as much these days. She has good torps and a lot of them. Guns and AA are fair. Like the Asashio, she’s all about her stealth. 

If you like the sneaky DD play style that the Asashio has than the IJN line to the Shimmy is a good line for you. Remember to spec your ship and captain for stealth and torps. 

Good luck!

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58 minutes ago, oceantwentyfive said:

torpedos are efficient against all ships and not only BB

The obvious stats are misleading. 

The Asashio torpedoes with their 20 km range have a spotting range if I recall correctly under 1 km. The 20 km Shimakaze torps have a spotted range of 2.5 km - making them effectively useless outside of short range or against targets that are asleep or unimaginably stupid. The only ones close to useable are the 12 km torps at 1.7/8 km spotting, and even then, are hampered compared to every other nation at the tier running 1.3-1.5 depending on torp speed. Regular IJN torps were hit hard by the drastic over nerf years ago, and Wargaming has never fixed it, leaving most other ships with torps that end up more accurate and reloading faster and in some cases - having as good or better range. It's part of why you tend to see the IJN torp line at the bottom of pretty much every stat if USN isn't worse. 

Sure, the torpedoes hit hard when they hit, the problem is getting to hit between nerfed spotting ranges on the torps, the amount of hydro out there, and the amount of radar, to say nothing of not as many morons who sail straight for the nearly 2 minutes it takes Shimakaze torps to go 20 km. 

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1 hour ago, Meta_Man said:

They are different...Shima being a tier 10 sees much more radar because azathioprine can see tier 6 a portion of the time and at tier 6/7 radar isn't as abundant as in the pinnacle tier....I wouldn't use the 20 km torps on the Shima (torp detection) id use the 12 km fish...Shima is towards the bottom of the global winrates for tier 10 dds but used quite often in ranked/clan battles also....She can be used better than what her winrate suggests but you have to stick to her role.....in the same breath not be a coward in the back either....

20 KM can be used but spotted earlier.  Use with the speed boost.  12 work best,  F3 can be very fun.

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9 minutes ago, Nachoo31 said:

20 KM can be used but spotted earlier.  Use with the speed boost.  12 work best,  F3 can be very fun.

I prefer the 12 kms also

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Thank you very much for your replies. With the Asashio the only moment I use the 20 km rage is at the very beginning of the game when I don't see any BB yet and spray the area. Almost all the time I hit someone...then I play much closer trying to get between 15 and 10 and under when I am chasing a BB. Now if the Shima torpedoes are slower and seen before I assume she will then have to use much more her guns. I hope they reload faster than the Asashio because she is a pain with that :) the only time I use the gun on the Asashio is when I control the fight by surprise or someone running away. Each time I had a duel with another DD I lost it...So I am being very careful. I am  a bit disappointed that the Japanese line DD are not the torpedoes anymore. IT was my understand. What other nation has good torpedoes (my definition of good meaning fast, low detectability and range ^^^ - I know^^)

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7 hours ago, oceantwentyfive said:

Thank you very much for your replies. With the Asashio the only moment I use the 20 km rage is at the very beginning of the game when I don't see any BB yet and spray the area. Almost all the time I hit someone...then I play much closer trying to get between 15 and 10 and under when I am chasing a BB. Now if the Shima torpedoes are slower and seen before I assume she will then have to use much more her guns. I hope they reload faster than the Asashio because she is a pain with that :) the only time I use the gun on the Asashio is when I control the fight by surprise or someone running away. Each time I had a duel with another DD I lost it...So I am being very careful. I am  a bit disappointed that the Japanese line DD are not the torpedoes anymore. IT was my understand. What other nation has good torpedoes (my definition of good meaning fast, low detectability and range ^^^ - I know^^)

Asashio's torps actually reload quite quickly. Shima's torps take a short lifetime, which is why one shouldn't fire them all at once, so you're always having torps or about to have torps.. As far as other nations and their torps, the PA DDs, EU DDs and RN DDs all have effective torps. With the KM, USN, and RU DDs, it really depends on the specific ship and the tier.

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8 hours ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

Asashio's torps actually reload quite quickly. Shima's torps take a short lifetime, which is why one shouldn't fire them all at once, so you're always having torps or about to have torps.. As far as other nations and their torps, the PA DDs, EU DDs and RN DDs all have effective torps. With the KM, USN, and RU DDs, it really depends on the specific ship and the tier.

All I know is I like to play Asashio, I don't like to play Shima ;-)

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On 12/9/2020 at 2:48 PM, oceantwentyfive said:

I am  a bit disappointed that the Japanese line DD are not the torpedoes anymore. IT was my understand. What other nation has good torpedoes (my definition of good meaning fast, low detectability and range ^^^ - I know^^)

Shimakaze line has very good torpedoes. Also, there are situations where I saw the torpedoes with enough time to move, but there were so many torpedoes that I didn't have a place to move to.

Besides Shimakaze, Halland is the other DD that I see in Clan Battles.
European DD have some fun torpedoes. They are very, very fast. Tier 10 Halland has 2 sets of 5x torpedoes that run 15km at 85 knots.
The weakness is that those torpedoes don't do so much damage. I use them to push red ships and to start a flood.
European DDs have good AA, and starting with tier 8, enough guns to solve a problem.

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On 12/10/2020 at 9:51 AM, Warped_1 said:

All I know is I like to play Asashio, I don't like to play Shima ;-)

I much prefer to play Sassy over Shima.

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On 12/10/2020 at 9:51 AM, Warped_1 said:

All I know is I like to play Asashio, I don't like to play Shima ;-)

 

On 12/11/2020 at 5:02 PM, TheKrimzonDemon said:

I much prefer to play Sassy over Shima.

Dang it. You guys are gonna get me to looking to buy an Asashio. I played against them and don't really give them a lot of consideration.  Harekaze, Orkan, and Cossack give Asashio a beatdown. I still haven't got comfortable pan-asian torpedoes-still at tier 8 due to lack of interest- so I am not sure I will like XDWTs.

Edited by Ensign_Pulver_2016

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19 hours ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

 

Dang it. You guys are gonna get me to looking to buy an Asashio. I played against them and don't really give them a lot of consideration.  Harekaze, Orkan, and Cossack give Asashio a beatdown. I still haven't got comfortable pan-asian torpedoes-still at tier 8 due to lack of interest- so I am not sure I will like XDWTs.

She isn't a gunbote; BUT, those guns still hurt.  Like all (almost) IJN DDs, she can be running away and still the majority of relatively heavy guns pointed backward.  The point of her though is to be where those other DDs are not.

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4 hours ago, Warped_1 said:

The point of her though is to be where those other DDs are not.

Avoidance behaviors. I had always given them a wide berth in randoms. I figured with the torpedoes limited to  CV and BB she must have been given buffs on her guns.  In ranked this year (what I have been able to play), I have used the Orkan and gone DD hunting. I have found Asashio to be an easy target. 

I looked at my port, and I decided with three tier 8 premium DDs already, I will not look for an Asashio.  

Edited by Ensign_Pulver_2016

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What shima has is better speed 39km and torps that can hit any ship....shima is not bad at all...her wintates are low because YOU WILOSE 90% OF your knife fights....if you stick to spotting,torping, and target of opportunities gun  fire when you're safe you'll do fine

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I recently bought Asashio, because I wanted a different style of play. (I mostly play gunboats, except Halland.)
It's fun! It's not a ship I will play as often as some others, but it "scratches an itch."
The torpedoes do indeed have very limited targets. It's not so easy to get a hit, but when you do they drop the lifeboats.
Asashio is very stealthy, so when you're not sending torpedoes, you can spot for your team like an Evil Sneak.

Orkan is fun too. It's like a tier 8 Småland, and there's nothing wrong with that. If I'm facing Tier 10 Battleships, though, give me the Asashio.

Asashio is also a nice antidote to Dead Eye Camping.

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On 1/26/2021 at 6:59 AM, Meta_Man said:

What shima has is better speed 39km and torps that can hit any ship....shima is not bad at all...her wintates are low because YOU WILOSE 90% OF your knife fights....if you stick to spotting,torping, and target of opportunities gun  fire when you're safe you'll do fine

When you missing your torps or nothing want to come to you, that normally make the game go bad as well.

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Asashio

is an assassin to BB and CV due to her deep water torp, her guns just OK if brawling with other dd. For players who fit into stealth role, Asashio is the best

 

 

Shima,

more generic role due to her normal torp, stealth but in t10 game, radar/hydro/CV, semi perm spot her play style is VERY different. You will faced with other who ARE equal to or more experiences, who will rotate radar use (team work), and many other things in t10 game.

 

Both are fun to play ... nasty when left un-contest or not spot or not kill first (most priority target, the most F3 key targeted) :Smile_trollface:

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