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Swervenkill

Idea for Coop AI

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I wonder what would happen if WG picked a high-scoring human and copied his travel path during a random game onto an AI in the same ship in a Coop game?  

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So program the AI to find the nearest island?

SpotTheRandomPlayer.PNG

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2 minutes ago, Beleaf_ said:

So program the AI to find the nearest island?

SpotTheRandomPlayer.PNG

Alternate positions, A-1 or J-10 in lieu of nearest island.

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24 minutes ago, Swervenkill said:

I wonder what would happen if WG picked a high-scoring human and copied his travel path during a random game onto an AI in the same ship in a Coop game?  

The bot has an aim-hack, knows where the nearest DD is, and the smart ones can even spam HE while inside smoke.

Want to know what it's like?  Go into a training room and select the highest AI setting for your opponents...   Prepare to die.

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4 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

The bot has an aim-hack, knows where the nearest DD is, and the smart ones can even spam HE while inside smoke.

Want to know what it's like?  Go into a training room and select the highest AI setting for your opponents...   Prepare to die.

“I am Inigo Bottoya. You killed my AI Father. Prepare to die.”

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30 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

“I am Inigo Bottoya. You killed my AI Father. Prepare to die.”

 

Awesome Princess Bride reference

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If you ask me, I say that depends on what kind of players they choose to emulate... but that's just me, lol. :fish_book:

Regardless, I would like to say that such drastic change should warrant an increase in Coop payouts, matching that of the PvP modes. I mean, that's fair, right? LEL. :Smile_trollface:

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57 minutes ago, Beleaf_ said:

So program the AI to find the nearest island?

 

They already got some that do that.

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3 hours ago, Blorgh2017 said:

If you ask me, I say that depends on what kind of players they choose to emulate... but that's just me, lol. :fish_book:

Regardless, I would like to say that such drastic change should warrant an increase in Coop payouts, matching that of the PvP modes. I mean, that's fair, right? LEL. :Smile_trollface:

WG using co-op AI to emulate a player from Randoms?

What makes you think that the bots are not already emulating a player already?

For the purpose of emulation software design, the study subject has to be playing all ship types and has played more in each of them on average to get a good idea of what thought process to emulate.

Currently, bots have rpf and captain skills maybe up to 19 points.

But based on what exactly?

A certain kind of player that doesn't overspecialize, but plays them all. This provides the best data.

Why? Because if the bot is in a shimakaze, but also knows how a CV player thinks, it will know how to react even if the CV player thinks they have an advantage.

Emulation has been around for a while, but getting a bot to apply tactics like predicting you might torp him around that island, so he changes course instead is a sign of intuitive thinking.

WG can get data from specific great players, but combining their mindsets would conflict with each other.

So you get a bot with multiple personality disorder.

Instead, designing an AI is best done by copying one personality instead.

Scfi actually got it right. You can't put a hive mind together and not lose your individuality.

By creating a unique individual that learns or is a copy from an original, is more efficient.

I am sure there are thousands of players WG could model their bot AI to.

It just depends on who is active in the game and for what specific goals WG wants to have with bots in the future.

Eventually, bots will show up in Randoms and win matches for the team in typical Cylon fashion.

Then we will all be complaining yet again about why are red team's Cylons better than theirs?

 

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15 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

WG using co-op AI to emulate a player from Randoms?

What makes you think that the bots are not already emulating a player already?

For the purpose of emulation software design, the study subject has to be playing all ship types and has played more in each of them on average to get a good idea of what thought process to emulate.

Currently, bots have rpf and captain skills maybe up to 19 points.

But based on what exactly?

A certain kind of player that doesn't overspecialize, but plays them all. This provides the best data.

Why? Because if the bot is in a shimakaze, but also knows how a CV player thinks, it will know how to react even if the CV player thinks they have an advantage.

Emulation has been around for a while, but getting a bot to apply tactics like predicting you might torp him around that island, so he changes course instead is a sign of intuitive thinking.

WG can get data from specific great players, but combining their mindsets would conflict with each other.

So you get a bot with multiple personality disorder.

Instead, designing an AI is best done by copying one personality instead.

Scfi actually got it right. You can't put a hive mind together and not lose your individuality.

By creating a unique individual that learns or is a copy from an original, is more efficient.

I am sure there are thousands of players WG could model their bot AI to.

It just depends on who is active in the game and for what specific goals WG wants to have with bots in the future.

Eventually, bots will show up in Randoms and win matches for the team in typical Cylon fashion.

Then we will all be complaining yet again about why are red team's Cylons better than theirs?

 

Tell all that to OP, and not me. I'm not the one who started this thread.

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The idea was to change the bot paradigm by introducing a random but semi-thought out tracks for bot ships. Rather than storming the nearest cap or charging the closest enemy having a couple ships traveling in unpredictable patterns would make the coop battles more interesting. I'm not proposing real AI just changing the pattern the bots move in.

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20 hours ago, Swervenkill said:

I wonder what would happen if WG picked a high-scoring human and copied his travel path during a random game onto an AI in the same ship in a Coop game?  

When you play ALOT of COOP battles and gotten down to where you are the last human facing multiple BOT BBs lets see if you have the same mind set.   NOT all BOTs are created equal and COOP battles may not be as easy as many folks tend to believe.   

 

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There is the very occasional bot who seems to have more skills than usual, and the bot who seems to be wearing some kind of force field as no matter what you do all you can get is overpens, ricochets or zero damage pens.

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20 hours ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

When you play ALOT of COOP battles and gotten down to where you are the last human facing multiple BOT BBs lets see if you have the same mind set.   NOT all BOTs are created equal and COOP battles may not be as easy as many folks tend to believe.   

 

You're right, I've only got 3700 coop games under my belt. Perhaps the next thousand will afford me more wisdom.

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8 minutes ago, Swervenkill said:

You're right, I've only got 3700 coop games under my belt. Perhaps the next thousand will afford me more wisdom.

I apologize if it came across as you not having enough COOP games...  it is more like after you been around for awhile you will eventually experience the various "tweaks" the WOWS may or may not have implemented into COOP with some being announced many not so.   There are also a few folks that have sort of "implied" COOP is not the main focus of WOWS.       It is just my opinion  but if you have not tried Public TEST server experience in COOP you may find being alot less human players within the team makeup the BOTs tend to be tad more aggressive then they are on live\main server. 

 

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I've played a few games where I was the only human (after getting up at 5:30 in the morning for forty years it happens on weekends too whether I want it or not) and the bots all act the same on both sides: The bot ships all conduct suicide attacks against each other and you're left with a random selection of survivors. If you are lucky they are an even split, if not they are all either green (and you get little experience and money) or red (and you get gangbanged). Often I finish off the nearby enemies then look across the board and find I'm all alone out there. It only takes maybe three competent human players to turn the tide.

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PTS COOP is a different kettle of fish, the bots tend to be more aggressive and make more logical choices.

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We already have human like bots. We have bots that emulate idiot humans by turning 90 degrees at the start and sailing to other parts of the map. We have high health bots running and hiding.

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Dont piss the bots off :-) I have noticed once and a while all the dds are dead and no torpodo ca near and i get hit with this magical wall of torps from nowher... It has happened multiple times.

It makes me wonder?

 

 

 

 

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On 12/8/2020 at 8:58 PM, AVR_Project said:

The bot has an aim-hack, knows where the nearest DD is, and the smart ones can even spam HE while inside smoke.

Want to know what it's like?  Go into a training room and select the highest AI setting for your opponents...   Prepare to die.

Hard bots in training room are a blast to play against. They actually give a bit of a challenge but still manage to keep the low stress that Co-op normally hits. They're aggressive, but if a fight turns against them they'll actually start maneuvering and spreading out. They actually target the ship that's the biggest threat to them, instead of deciding on a tactic and sticking to that no matter what. I'm mostly a BB player, and there is nothing more frustrating than getting focused in my Thunderer at 12km by four or five ships, who then get torn to shreds by point blank torpedoes from DDs they ignored.

Hard bots would actually teach people some useful lessons, like how it's a bad idea to sail broadside on in cruisers or battleships, and how rushing a group of enemies across open water to launch torpedoes will get you sent back to port. They really should just divide coop into hard and easy modes. It's not like they really care if they split the coop playerbase.

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15 minutes ago, MushroomBoogaloo said:

Hard bots in training room are a blast to play against. They actually give a bit of a challenge but still manage to keep the low stress that Co-op normally hits. They're aggressive, but if a fight turns against them they'll actually start maneuvering and spreading out. They actually target the ship that's the biggest threat to them, instead of deciding on a tactic and sticking to that no matter what. I'm mostly a BB player, and there is nothing more frustrating than getting focused in my Thunderer at 12km by four or five ships, who then get torn to shreds by point blank torpedoes from DDs they ignored.

Hard bots would actually teach people some useful lessons, like how it's a bad idea to sail broadside on in cruisers or battleships, and how rushing a group of enemies across open water to launch torpedoes will get you sent back to port. They really should just divide coop into hard and easy modes. It's not like they really care if they split the coop playerbase.

Can hard mode have full rewards? Ill play it in that case, otherwise..EHhhh..

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Just now, Princess_Daystar said:

Can hard mode have full rewards? Ill play it in that case, otherwise..EHhhh..

Well that's why you'd have the choice I guess. As a BB player who loathes sitting at long range, and much prefers medium and short range fights, few things are more frustrating than trying to close in for a good fight, only to see the brainless co-op bots ignore allied DDs who rush them across open water and get torped before I can do more than fire a salvo or two. I'd much rather have a good shootout, even if it means longer matches.

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On 12/9/2020 at 4:17 PM, Noworriesderpy1 said:

When you play ALOT of COOP battles and gotten down to where you are the last human facing multiple BOT BBs lets see if you have the same mind set.   NOT all BOTs are created equal and COOP battles may not be as easy as many folks tend to believe.   

 

Truth.  Some games you have the bots that have been lobotomized.  Some games they are working purposefully.  It can be quite fun when they don't ROFLstomp you :Smile_teethhappy:

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18 hours ago, MushroomBoogaloo said:

Well that's why you'd have the choice I guess. As a BB player who loathes sitting at long range, and much prefers medium and short range fights, few things are more frustrating than trying to close in for a good fight, only to see the brainless co-op bots ignore allied DDs who rush them across open water and get torped before I can do more than fire a salvo or two. I'd much rather have a good shootout, even if it means longer matches.

I seem to have trouble with brainless human cruiser and DD friendlies who ignore the enemy DDs because they are poorly trying to hide and spam farm damage from enemy BBs at maximum range.

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On 1/1/2021 at 1:27 AM, Duma said:

Truth.  Some games you have the bots that have been lobotomized.  Some games they are working purposefully.  It can be quite fun when they don't ROFLstomp you :Smile_teethhappy:

I find that the bots mainly perform well when targeting me. I've sailed in formation with allied BBs while in a small cruiser, and watched as multiple salvos fired at those BBs miss by ridiculous margins. I'm not talking about bad rng for the bots, their salvos are completely and repeatedly off target. As soon as my comparatively tiny cruiser is spotted, they're laser accurate and I start taking hits.

I'll be playing in my Haida, watching as a friendly DD makes a suicide rush. I figure I'll fire some shots, and as soon as I do my PT goes to 5. I end up losing a massive portion of my health in my attempts to take cover, all while the friendly DD who is much closer and has also been firing guns escapes with two kills and a few thousand damage taken from secondaries.

I get into situations where by all rights the bot shooting at me should overpen, but instead deletes me from full health. I just had one where I gave a KGV my Altanta's broadside at less than 2km. Whenever I see someone else get into these situations, they take minor damage and deal major damage in return. I now leave whenever I'm sunk, because seeing how badly some people play, only to watch as the bots repeatedly fail to do any meaningful damage against them burns me up.

 

On 1/1/2021 at 3:31 PM, Airjellyfish said:

I seem to have trouble with brainless human cruiser and DD friendlies who ignore the enemy DDs because they are poorly trying to hide and spam farm damage from enemy BBs at maximum range.

I don't usually have too much issue with people hiding in the back. My problem is how often the bots ignore suicide torp rushes in favour of taking potshots at ships on the other side of the map.

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