CV "balance"

[Freelancerinc]

So I've mentioned this in a few threads and had good responses. One "simple" thing to help balance CVs more. Is by using the "new radar mechanics". In its current state Plane spotting works the exact same as being spotted  from an enemy ship. I think changing this would help alot.

 

Heres how i see it working out using "realism"

1. Enemy plane spot you in your Destroyer
2. 2 seconds later enemy plane radios enemy CV about your destroyers position
3. 2 seconds later enemy CV radios fleet about Destroyer position
4. 2 seconds later enemy fleet gains sight of destroyer.
5. enemy profit

Currently planes basically work as indefinite radar, but does not have the negatives to it. It makes sense both as an "arcade" mechanic and as a realism mechanic. I can't image giving plane spotting the exact same mechanics as radar would be hard to implement either.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

17 minutes ago, Freelancerinc said:

So I've mentioned this in a few threads and had good responses. One "simple" thing to help balance CVs more. Is by using the "new radar mechanics". In its current state Plane spotting works the exact same as being spotted  from an enemy ship. I think changing this would help alot.

 

Heres how i see it working out using "realism"

1. Enemy plane spot you in your Destroyer
2. 2 seconds later enemy plane radios enemy CV about your destroyers position
3. 2 seconds later enemy CV radios fleet about Destroyer position
4. 2 seconds later enemy fleet gains sight of destroyer.
5. enemy profit

Currently planes basically work as indefinite radar, but does not have the negatives to it. It makes sense both as an "arcade" mechanic and as a realism mechanic. I can't image giving plane spotting the exact same mechanics as radar would be hard to implement either.

Unfortunately, you must first convince WG that plane spotting is bad for the game...

[STINKWEED_]

56 minutes ago, Freelancerinc said:

So I've mentioned this in a few threads and had good responses. One "simple" thing to help balance CVs more. Is by using the "new radar mechanics". In its current state Plane spotting works the exact same as being spotted  from an enemy ship. I think changing this would help alot.

 

Heres how i see it working out using "realism"

1. Enemy plane spot you in your Destroyer
2. 2 seconds later enemy plane radios enemy CV about your destroyers position
3. 2 seconds later enemy CV radios fleet about Destroyer position
4. 2 seconds later enemy fleet gains sight of destroyer.
5. enemy profit

Currently planes basically work as indefinite radar, but does not have the negatives to it. It makes sense both as an "arcade" mechanic and as a realism mechanic. I can't image giving plane spotting the exact same mechanics as radar would be hard to implement either.

Please stop making good sensible arguments here. It won't be tolerated. 

[Freelancerinc]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Unfortunately, you must first convince WG that plane spotting is bad for the game...

 

someone convinced them immediate team spotting after radar was a bad thing, if we can find that person we're good to go

[Crucis]

1 hour ago, Freelancerinc said:

So I've mentioned this in a few threads and had good responses. One "simple" thing to help balance CVs more. Is by using the "new radar mechanics". In its current state Plane spotting works the exact same as being spotted  from an enemy ship. I think changing this would help alot.

 

Heres how i see it working out using "realism"

1. Enemy plane spot you in your Destroyer
2. 2 seconds later enemy plane radios enemy CV about your destroyers position
3. 2 seconds later enemy CV radios fleet about Destroyer position
4. 2 seconds later enemy fleet gains sight of destroyer.
5. enemy profit

Currently planes basically work as indefinite radar, but does not have the negatives to it. It makes sense both as an "arcade" mechanic and as a realism mechanic. I can't image giving plane spotting the exact same mechanics as radar would be hard to implement either.

 

Or, using "realism" (note the quotes, everyone), only put spotted ships on the minimap but not directly onto the UI.  And do the same for radar and hydro.  Perhaps even for spotting by allied ships as well.  The end result would be that the only ships you could see on the UI would be enemy ships you spotted on your own, though their presence on the minimap certainly would allow you to close in on those minimap spotted ships until you could spot them directly.  For better or worse though, I think that this would also slow down the pace of game play if you needed to get into range to physically spot your targets.  

Another option could be to allow 3rd party spotted ships onto the UI but with an accuracy penalty since you're not directly spotting them yourself.  But as with the previous idea, this would also slow down game play, since less accurate gun fire means that it takes longer to sink enemy ships.

 

In the end, I think that things that weaken CV plane spotting of enemy ships only effectively slows down game play, for the reasons described above, which may not be a good thing from WG's perspective.

 

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, Freelancerinc said:

 

someone convinced them immediate team spotting after radar was a bad thing, if we can find that person we're good to go

That was successful because cruisers are not supposed to be the counter to destroyers.

WG appears to WANT carriers to counter destroyers...so aerial spotting is required. Its hard to argue with that when you can see that absent planes...DDs have no true counter...only a limited time consumable irritant in radar.

And no, radar does not counter DDs...unless you want to also make the argument that defAA counters carriers.

[BrushWolf]

You do realize that other than during the initial spotting pass that DD's are usually spotted by a ship before the plane shows up so do you want a delay for all spotting?

[Freelancerinc]

1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

You do realize that other than during the initial spotting pass that DD's are usually spotted by a ship before the plane shows up so do you want a delay for all spotting?

no not all spotting, but other than the 100% pure gunboats like the french and russian DD's who spend half the game spotted due to firring almost constantly, the other DDs get spotted more often by their own mistakes and planes than other ships.

 

If CVs are the direct counter to DD's *unlike IRL* then they should do mediocre damage to all other ship types. Radar is a extremely strong counter measure to DD's. When you hit radar you still have to actively try to shoot a DD, unlike DFAA, which is a hit it and forget it. There is no DIRECT counter play vs planes.

 

Even with the new CVs, DDs die more readily from other ships than they do CVs direct damage. CVs like FDR can literally just hover over a DD and keep it spoted for as long as they wish, they don't have to do any damage.

[Mr_Argamas]

13 hours ago, Freelancerinc said:

Currently planes basically work as indefinite radar, but does not have the negatives to it.

Indeed. A radar that you can reposition anywhere on the map at 150+ knots with no terrain limitations.

It's a good suggestion, I like it. Another that got my attention; making plane spotting work like cyclones. Ships beyond 8 or 10 km range only get the position on the mini-map.  But I think I like your suggestion better.
We could even combine the two methods; immediate spotting (as-is) for ships within 8 or 10 km range, then the rest of the team gets the information relayed couple of seconds later. 

[Freelancerinc]

8 hours ago, Mr_Argamas said:

Indeed. A radar that you can reposition anywhere on the map at 150+ knots with no terrain limitations.

It's a good suggestion, I like it. Another that got my attention; making plane spotting work like cyclones. Ships beyond 8 or 10 km range only get the position on the mini-map.  But I think I like your suggestion better.
We could even combine the two methods; immediate spotting (as-is) for ships within 8 or 10 km range, then the rest of the team gets the information relayed couple of seconds later. 

 

I likey this opinion, it might be a little too far of a move for WG to consider, but as a player i think its a cool mechanic.