Battle results vs history

[phydaux42]

How is it that in Random the top scoring ship class is usually a Destroyer when destroyers were NOT the major ship killers of World War II, while the ship class that WAS the major ship killer, the aircraft carrier, struggles to get even a single enemy sunk?

[HamptonRoads]

This is a game.  To balance things you need to take some "liberties"    

[phydaux42]

I guess I'm still salty from the rework.  I miss old school CVs.  

[xHeavy]

I miss the old pre-reworked RTS CVs. One got really involved once the battle was going.

This is a game. It leaves out much of the real life problems of battle with a warship. Not a simulation.  Even the storms are badly done I hate to say it. A flat table top in a cyclone (Hurricane)? Ya right. give me a break. You would be focused on keeping the bow on to waves at 50 foot more than you would be shooting. and in storm conditions a larger ship can be more weather and pull away from you.

 

Most players do not want that level of detail. IF you want precision try this one from NASA

Z is straight down Y is across you left and right and X is forward and back. Throw in yaw and roll and you have yourself some gaming to do.

https://iss-sim.spacex.com/ 

[Sventex]

59 minutes ago, phydaux42 said:

How is it that in Random the top scoring ship class is usually a Destroyer when destroyers were NOT the major ship killers of World War II, while the ship class that WAS the major ship killer, the aircraft carrier, struggles to get even a single enemy sunk?

So what do *you* want Destroyers to be other than crud?

[Kevik70]

Ships in game are a lot tankier then they would have been in the real world. A CV strike could easily leave a vessel crippled if not out right sunk and often did during the war. Still, it could take hours before the ship slipped beneath the waves either from the damage dealt by the CV or from being scuttled. 

This isn't reflected in game where battles only last 20 minutes, that and it would be incredibly unfun for surface ships if they got wrecked as easily as they did in the real world. How many destroyers players would be dead in 2 minutes by CVs if that were the case? I'm already tired of watching CVs take 1/4 or more of a poor DDs health within the first 2 minutes of the game. There is literally no good counter to carriers in the game right now. Say what you will about pre-rework CV gameplay but at least people had a fighting chance against CVs if they were smart. Defensive fire could scatter attacks, AA builds for some ships could down any attack that was foolish enough to enter their sphere of influence. Finally your own teams carrier could actually use his fighters to protect the team. That's three counters, good counters to CVs that players could take advantage of.

Now we have nothing that even comes close to that level of counter. Defensive Fire's biggest strength, the scattering of attacks, was removed and its damage heavily nerfed. AA builds were likewise nerfed. Finally CV fighters were turned into a bad joke, how can a limited duration and short area of effect fighter consumable even come close to offering the same level of protection pre-rework fighter squadrons could? They can't and they don't. CVs are more able to land attacks then they ever have been before, but at the cost on being able to do almost nothing worthwhile to stop them. The re-work may have made CVs easily to play as, but I will always hate playing against them.

[Wombatmetal]

1 hour ago, phydaux42 said:

How is it that in Random the top scoring ship class is usually a Destroyer when destroyers were NOT the major ship killers of World War II, while the ship class that WAS the major ship killer, the aircraft carrier, struggles to get even a single enemy sunk?

History.

DDs and DDEs sank 246 U-Boats in WW2. That is more than IJN ships lost due to all causes. DDs did a lot of fighting, which makes sense as there were more DDs than any other class. Most Japanese shipping was lost due to Submarines by the way. 

[HamAndCheez]

2 hours ago, phydaux42 said:

How is it that in Random the top scoring ship class is usually a Destroyer when destroyers were NOT the major ship killers of World War II, while the ship class that WAS the major ship killer, the aircraft carrier, struggles to get even a single enemy sunk?

[CylonRed]

Considering most people think the CVs are the ultlimate OP ship.... not sure you are going to get any sympathy.  At the same time - this is a game and a LOT of what happened in WW2 - was sheer luck combined with bad decisions.

[SoothingWhaleSongEU]

2 hours ago, phydaux42 said:

How is it that in Random the top scoring ship class is usually a Destroyer when destroyers were NOT the major ship killers of World War II, while the ship class that WAS the major ship killer, the aircraft carrier, struggles to get even a single enemy sunk?

Regardless of bait or irony I will take this at face value.

Mostly I see a battleship or cruiser dealing the most kills/damage. Sometimes destroyers have monster games but mostly well played destroyers top the scoreboard because they've done other useful good stuff like 

For purposes of calculating base XP and credit earnings, what matters is % damage of a ships hitpoints rather than overall damage. Doing 10K damage to a destroyer with 17K total HP is worth more than doing 40K to a battleship with 88K HP. Likewise capping a base is worth a good chunk of XP. Eventually spotting damage racks up etc. So destroyers who do useful stuff like winning cap contesting DD duels and capping and spotting can rack up base XP. 

Farming battlehips gets good damage numbers but it's worth less than doing something more useful.

 

[dad003]

any ship can get top , you just have to perform well and stay ALIVE , which is were most people dont get top , because once your dead you dont brings anything to the team . 

Patch after patch the quality of the player base get worse and they get more stupid , you stay alive and will top the board every time

[weiwaynezhang]

if more like history in WW2, CV will be buffed more, is that what you really want? 

Think Again.

[Compassghost]

Visible confusion...

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20201205/na_week/average_class.html

Carriers earn the most at high tier, and the second most at low tier, behind battleships. Destroyers are middling in high tier, and dead last in low tier.

 

[Sventex]

59 minutes ago, weiwaynezhang said:

if more like history in WW2, CV will be buffed more, is that what you really want? 

Think Again.

Why?  Many of the most famous carriers exploded after a single hit.  And the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot was thing, 550–645 Japanese aircraft destroyed at the cost of one slightly damaged USS South Dakota, suffering only a single bomb hit.

[Snargfargle]

11 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Carriers earn the most at high tier, and the second most at low tier, behind battleships. Destroyers are middling in high tier, and dead last in low tier.

This is because CVs generally last longer in the battle and thus have the potential to do cumulative damage, whereas DDs are oftentimes the first sunk. It would be interesting to see time in battle figures for the ship types because then you could calculate damage per minute but I don't know of any sites that collect this data.

[xHeavy]

I am reminded of a CV not too long ago that endured 16 500 pound bombs going off inside it's hanger deck along with Zuni rockets and so on.

Modern carrier was staked out off Virginia Coast a couple of years back. Then subject to sinkex by the Navy. They needed a freaking MONTH and finally sent sappers aboard with shaped charges to detonate very sensitive and classified spots to finally sink the thing. There is one picture on the internet of it going under the waves flight deck awash. The rest of it is classified beyond belief for obvious reasons.

The Bonne Home Richard burned 4 days and nights recently. The Navy decided ultimately to scrap it. It would cost 7 Billion in today's money and 5 years to rebuild. Its cheaper just to have a new build and added to the fleet.

[weiwaynezhang]

8 hours ago, Sventex said:

Why?  Many of the most famous carriers exploded after a single hit.  And the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot was thing, 550–645 Japanese aircraft destroyed at the cost of one slightly damaged USS South Dakota, suffering only a single bomb hit.

CV only dead to CVs in history

Bismarck, Yamato dead to CVs

have you heard any notable CV dead to battleships? or cruisers or DDs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sunken_aircraft_carriers

either othe CV or submarines

[Aaron_S_Merrill]

9 hours ago, Sventex said:

Why?  Many of the most famous carriers exploded after a single hit.  And the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot was thing, 550–645 Japanese aircraft destroyed at the cost of one slightly damaged USS South Dakota, suffering only a single bomb hit.

Huh?  Which famous carriers exploded after a single hit?  You can find an extreme outlier like Taiho (lost after taking relatively little damage due to poor DC practices)  but most carriers (particularly the big or "fleet" carriers) took multiple bomb/torpedo hits and kept on going. Bunker Hill?  Franklin?

[Aaron_S_Merrill]

14 hours ago, phydaux42 said:

How is it that in Random the top scoring ship class is usually a Destroyer when destroyers were NOT the major ship killers of World War II, while the ship class that WAS the major ship killer, the aircraft carrier, struggles to get even a single enemy sunk?

Not my experience, it's very rare that I see DDs as the top XP earner in a match. 

[Roken1]

14 hours ago, phydaux42 said:

How is it that in Random the top scoring ship class is usually a Destroyer when destroyers were NOT the major ship killers of World War II, while the ship class that WAS the major ship killer, the aircraft carrier, struggles to get even a single enemy sunk?

The WOWS player base want this game to look like Guadalcanal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Battle_of_Guadalcanal rather than any standard engagement in the Pacific or the Atlantic. Some Mediterranean action also involved a lot of destroyer action, and typically are night battles.

[weiwaynezhang]

9 hours ago, Sventex said:

Why?  Many of the most famous carriers exploded after a single hit.  And the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot was thing, 550–645 Japanese aircraft destroyed at the cost of one slightly damaged USS South Dakota, suffering only a single bomb hit.

at the turkey shoot, the elite IJN pilots are already dead. the pilots have less experience and the war was decided by then.

[Princess_Daystar]

9 hours ago, xHeavy said:

I am reminded of a CV not too long ago that endured 16 500 pound bombs going off inside it's hanger deck along with Zuni rockets and so on.

Modern carrier was staked out off Virginia Coast a couple of years back. Then subject to sinkex by the Navy. They needed a freaking MONTH and finally sent sappers aboard with shaped charges to detonate very sensitive and classified spots to finally sink the thing. There is one picture on the internet of it going under the waves flight deck awash. The rest of it is classified beyond belief for obvious reasons.

The Bonne Home Richard burned 4 days and nights recently. The Navy decided ultimately to scrap it. It would cost 7 Billion in today's money and 5 years to rebuild. Its cheaper just to have a new build and added to the fleet.

Modern carriers are built to withstand..well..alot more than any other ship type. i swear the navy accepted a challenge after WWII to make *ALL* their carriers unsinkable, then again they have nuclear reactors on board so they need to be.

The Bonne Richard and the ships like it are not similar to carriers at all on the inside, nor are they built to take the levels of damage carriers can take. Further, look up the USS Oscar Austin, a DDG that caught fire in the shipyards, the navy decided not to scrap it, but moved it back to the naval base and the repairs are *STILL* going on, from a fire far far smaller than what happened to the Bonne Richard. Our ships can take massive amounts of damage, but fire is one of the biggest threats we train to combat due to how devastating they are, even flooding doesnt get as much training as fires do.

[HamAndCheez]

10 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

Modern carriers are built to withstand..well..alot more than any other ship type. i swear the navy accepted a challenge after WWII to make *ALL* their carriers unsinkable, then again they have nuclear reactors on board so they need to be.

The Bonne Richard and the ships like it are not similar to carriers at all on the inside, nor are they built to take the levels of damage carriers can take. Further, look up the USS Oscar Austin, a DDG that caught fire in the shipyards, the navy decided not to scrap it, but moved it back to the naval base and the repairs are *STILL* going on, from a fire far far smaller than what happened to the Bonne Richard. Our ships can take massive amounts of damage, but fire is one of the biggest threats we train to combat due to how devastating they are, even flooding doesnt get as much training as fires do.

I have a weird fascination with the Oliver Hazard Perry FFG-7 class frigates (and have for years). So sad when they took them out of service. Such good ships. The Perry class frigates are what the new LCS ships wish they could be when they grow up. 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4450/this-retired-perry-class-frigate-just-wont-sink-after-being-severely-pummeled-during-rimpac-16 

[Princess_Daystar]

27 minutes ago, HamAndCheez said:

I have a weird fascination with the Oliver Hazard Perry FFG-7 class frigates (and have for years). So sad when they took them out of service. Such good ships. The Perry class frigates are what the new LCS ships wish they could be when they grow up. 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4450/this-retired-perry-class-frigate-just-wont-sink-after-being-severely-pummeled-during-rimpac-16 

the LCS's drive me crazy huge waste of money, we have one stationed at the base im attached too and everytime it goes out to sea it comes back needing a new engine(USS Detroit). At least the navy canceled any more being built, and is going back to a modern frigate design, should never have tried a modular ship :/

[Pay_Your_Torpedo_Tax]

15 hours ago, phydaux42 said:

the aircraft carrier, struggles to get even a single enemy sunk?

 

So hard to kill ships. Soooooo soooo hard.