Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Dr_Venture

What the WG statement REALLY means

259 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

17
[FFG33]
Members
34 posts
1,665 battles
5 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

So I work in advertising and have dabbled in public relations quite a bit lately. My job: I write pretty words that make people buy things. This also gives me the ability to detect corporate bull**** really easily.

However I read the above statement this morning, and I can very easily tell the hidden hand of advertising at play. So let me take the time and translate this for you all, so we all understand what this means.

------

1. We've received a lot of questions and comments regarding 2020 Santa Containers, and we would like to clarify the situation. 

The fact wargaming has even ACKNOWLEDGED this tells me that they are truly scared of the backlash. For a company to respond to internet backlash means someone important is worried. More than likely what happened, a Verizon rep watching the streams noticed the massive amount of comments and started asking questions causing someone in Wargaming to panic/actually care.

2. As some of you noticed, certain ships in the containers have much higher drop rates than others. Santa Containers have worked like this since the very beginning, and until 2018 we even mentioned that peculiarity in the items description. After 2018 it was not present in the description anymore, as it was deemed excessive to the already detailed description.

Well yes, many people knew about the shortlist, however, someone in the marketing department with a psychology background more than likely chimed in "what if we remove this line and see what happens." Essentially they banked on their player population being too stupid (overall) to not put 2 and 2 together that the boxes had a rigged gate. However, for every 100 people screwed, 1 reports positive results on the forum/Reddit...building consumer confidence (subconsciously) that the boxes are a good deal.

3.We're sorry that some of you are left disappointed by the Santa Containers this year. We know this is something that a lot of our players look forward to and the last thing we want is to see you upset approaching holiday season. Thus, we will do the following:

We will work on improving the next Santa event with the feedback and concerns you voiced.
Until Sunday, Dec 13, any player is eligible for a one-time refund request for the Santa Crates they purchased. Please refer to Customer Support if you would like to have a refund, and please note, in order to prevent longer queue times, all purchases you want to refund should be in one request. The refunds will be handled according to the normal procedure – the goods from the containers should still be on your account, otherwise, Customer Support will have to do a roll-back to restore them and process the refund.

This one is a freebie Wargaming: NEVER-EVER-EVER started "we're sorry that x happened" when you've been caught deliberately misleading your loyal player base, and effectively stealing from them. It sounds like a robot is trying to show the mob empathy, and judging by Reddit you're not getting away with it. 

What you SHOULD have done is admit your wrongdoing, and instead just offering those who got screwed a refund - offer something very valuable to EVERY player. This is how you drown out those who were grieved with newly won brand ambassadors. In the industry, we call this gesture a "pallet cleanser." I mentioned this before, give people the chance to own one of the banned ships...imagine what would happen if people could replace their anger from the loot boxes with the pure joy of getting a boat they always wanted - Missouri, Belfast, Enterprise, Kutuzov

It should also be noted they will not actually improve the Santa event next year. Again the same person who tried to slip us a mickey with removing that VERY VITAL PIECE OF COPY about the nature of the boxes will come up with some new scheme. 

This section concerns me greatly:

"otherwise, Customer Support will have to do a roll-back to restore them and process the refund."

So if you want a refund, you're essentially locked out from playing the game. ANY PROGRESS between your loot box purchase and the date of refund is basically null and void. They will reset your account and wipe all progress. This is a terrible idea because low and behold it opens Wargaming up to more ire...

4. Regardless of whether you were considering Santa Containers at all, we hope you will enjoy all of the holiday activities and gifts this year – stay tuned for more news on the upcoming celebration.

What celebration? Do you mean people will want to take part in supporting your company after you ripped off a bunch of people and gave such a weak response? Sure people will still play, but your credit has been hurt severely with many community contributors reporting this fiasco. Their reach is vast, and this could potentially hurt the overall growth and support of this game from potential partnerships.

5. Thank you, good luck, and fair seas.

World of Warships team

Thank you? For what? 

---------

Fire your writer wargaming, and hire a public relations firm that knows what they are doing. You're not Disney where someone will take the bullet for the mouse. 

I agree my friend. The "restore the account" [edited] is to steer you clear of doing it. They know 99% will see this and say "f that", too much hassle. This is by design to create a hurdle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,762
[KWF]
Members
5,279 posts
6,659 battles

I still can't decide if this was a PR announcement, or a legal department one.

5 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

So if you want a refund, you're essentially locked out from playing the game. ANY PROGRESS between your loot box purchase and the date of refund is basically null and void. They will reset your account and wipe all progress. This is a terrible idea because low and behold it opens Wargaming up to more ire...

As for this, from what I have gather refunds are only offered to people that haven't opened containers. The rest, even without having spent any camos, coal etc are offered a rollback, effectively erasing a few days worth of grind/containers/anything really.

Oh yeah, and I forgot:

inb4 obligatory comment of language barriers leading to mistranslations: if you cater to an international audience use well trainer native English speakers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,715
[SIM]
Members
5,591 posts
9,028 battles

Yeah, the fact that they’re actually handing out refunds on this means that they really screwed up this time, and have reason to believe that they’re open to legal liability. Nothing else would prompt them to return cash/credit payments or take on the added legwork of having to review every associated account. 

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,701
[SALVO]
Members
6,040 posts
4,980 battles
13 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

What you SHOULD have done is admit your wrongdoing, and instead just offering those who got screwed a refund - offer something very valuable to EVERY player. This is how you drown out those who were grieved with newly won brand ambassadors. In the industry, we call this gesture a "pallet cleanser." I mentioned this before, give people the chance to own one of the banned ships...imagine what would happen if people could replace their anger from the loot boxes with the pure joy of getting a boat they always wanted - Missouri, Belfast, Enterprise, Kutuzov

Now, that would be the smart and honest move. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
859
[SAINT]
[SAINT]
Members
1,522 posts
18,179 battles
1 minute ago, SkaerKrow said:

Yeah, the fact that they’re actually handing out refunds on this means that they really screwed up this time, and have reason to believe that they’re open to legal liability. Nothing else would prompt them to return cash/credit payments or take on the added legwork of having to review every associated account. 

True but they wouldn't have offered the refund if they believed people would take it. I would assume many have already used the proceeds from the crates which means they would have to suffer through an account roll back before being refunded. I am not sure how many people would like to lose all of the progress they've made since their purchase. Regardless, I don't need or want a Makarov and will not support War Gaming's intent behind this event so will not be buying any crates. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,112
[TARK]
Members
7,331 posts
2,843 battles

Plus, they all but admitted that the decision to remove the disclosure was a conscious choice...one which the lawyers will DEFINITELY want to do Discovery on the context.

Does WG have any evidence in emails or documents showing that they considered removal of the disclosure might improve loot crate sales?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
7,026 posts
27,746 battles

To be honest, only a small number of players use the forum or reddit. The refunds will not hurt them too much, it will just please the crowd.

The reset is a threat to those, who played at the last weekend and use camos and flags. Or premium time. 

The refund in this case is more like a carrot dangeling in front of a donkey. 

So what, at the end maybe 1% will ask for a refund, WG got their money and got away with this. 

100% placebo.

The right way:

When the crapstart hitting the fan at Friday, WG should have stopped selling the crates ASAP.

For the players that already bought contrainers, they should have mailed to them and explain this and ask if they want to have a refund.

If they already used a few camos and flags, just refund them and don't remove that stuff.

 

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
547
[WOLFH]
Members
1,218 posts
16 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

This section concerns me greatly:

 

"otherwise, Customer Support will have to do a roll-back to restore them and process the refund."

So if you want a refund, you're essentially locked out from playing the game. ANY PROGRESS between your loot box purchase and the date of refund is basically null and void. They will reset your account and wipe all progress. This is a terrible idea because low and behold it opens Wargaming up to more ire...

I have to disagree with this because you omitted the critical previous statement that "the goods from the containers should still be on your account."

If a player feels abused by the crate process, by all means request a refund.  But don't expect to use camo, flags, FXP, and so forth from crates AND get a refund on what has been used.

  • Cool 3
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,714
[SALVO]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,104 posts
6,080 battles
5 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

To be honest, only a small number of players use the forum or reddit. The refunds will not hurt them too much, it will just please the crowd.

The reset is a threat to those, who played at the last weekend and use camos and flags. Or premium time. 

The refund in this case is more like a carrot dangeling in front of a donkey. 

So what, at the end maybe 1% will ask for a refund, WG got their money and got away with this. 

100% placebo.

Correct.

What I had to say was far more critical but I decided to tone it down and not risk getting outright censored by wargaming. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
632
[WOLF2]
Members
1,654 posts
11,789 battles
21 minutes ago, FirstDawnn said:

1. We've received a lot of questions and comments regarding 2020 Santa Containers, and we would like to clarify the situation. 

The fact wargaming has even ACKNOWLEDGED this tells me that they are truly scared of the backlash. For a company to respond to internet backlash means someone important is worried. More than likely what happened, a Verizon rep watching the streams noticed the massive amount of comments and started asking questions causing someone in Wargaming to panic/actually care.

Not only did they see the questions, but also the closely-followed "The moderator has deleted the comment".

The ol' Sergeant Shultz defence "I KNOW KNOTHING!!!"

i-know-nothing-rhbfpk.jpg.299532316e3da6c7e604eeb3d644c73e.jpg

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
35 posts
19,303 battles

What WG should do is give us a choice out of the rare and T9 ships. One ship which isn't gonna cost them anything as the game just generates it, what it will do is let them regain a modicum of positive customer relations.

 

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
257
[WOLF2]
Members
310 posts
7,284 battles

The best part about all of this are the lessons learned.

Prior events have shown Wargaming regards their customer base with something akin to apathy, but this has shown they're further willing to omit, lie, and cheat to get paid.

Inevitably it makes a person wonder how much of the same is coded into their game.

That's not someone I'll do business with ever again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
7,026 posts
27,746 battles
2 minutes ago, HTSMetal said:

The best part about all of this are the lessons learned.

Prior events have shown Wargaming regards their customer base with something akin to apathy, but this has shown they're further willing to omit, lie, and cheat to get paid.

Inevitably it makes a person wonder how much of the same is coded into their game.

That's not someone I'll do business with ever again.

Again, the number of players using the forum is small. Most player wouldn't get the information and start throwing money at WG to get that one rare ship.

The only thing you can do is thinking twice before you spend money on those loot boxes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
113
[B-Z]
Members
165 posts
15,507 battles

When smart companies screw up this bad, on this scale, they generally just say "keep the goods, also here is store credit for the full amount you spent". Then if you still really want your cash back, go can go through a returns process and get a cash refund.

In this case it would look like

"We got this wrong and we are truly sorry. We will correct the advertising for Santa Crates so that it shows the accurate mechanics,. We will do this within 24 hours.
If you bought crates before this announcement, you are eligible for an in game credit (dubloons) equivalent to the value of your purchase.
Click this button <BUTTON> before Dec 13th to get your dubloons. You get to keep any in game goods you received from those crates if you claim this in game credit.

In some countries you may be legally entitled to exchange the crates you bought, depending on the laws in your jurisdiction. Where applicable, we are able to use manual processes to roll back your account to 01 Dec 2020, (before Santa Crates went on sale), and refund you the full cash price of your Santa crates purchases. Given that this is a manual process, we cannot be certain about the queue times for a rollback. If you have already claimed in game credit, you will not be eligible for a cash refund as well."


Showering the players with dubs costs them nothing. It might warp the internal game economy for a bit, but the goodwill would be immense.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
217
[TFFOX]
Members
986 posts
2,193 battles
8 minutes ago, Nytewyng said:

What WG should do is give us a choice out of the rare and T9 ships.

YEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i upvote this

  • Funny 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,714
[SALVO]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,104 posts
6,080 battles
1 minute ago, MeglaGnome said:

When smart companies screw up this bad, on this scale, they generally just say "keep the goods, also here is store credit for the full amount you spent". Then if you still really want your cash back, go can go through a returns process and get a cash refund.

In this case it would look like

"We got this wrong and we are truly sorry. We will correct the advertising for Santa Crates so that it shows the accurate mechanics,. We will do this within 24 hours.
If you bought crates before this announcement, you are eligible for an in game credit (dubloons) equivalent to the value of your purchase.
Click this button <BUTTON> before Dec 13th to get your dubloons. You get to keep any in game goods you received from those crates if you claim this in game credit.

In some countries you may be legally entitled to exchange the crates you bought, depending on the laws in your jurisdiction. Where applicable, we are able to use manual processes to roll back your account to 01 Dec 2020, (before Santa Crates went on sale), and refund you the full cash price of your Santa crates purchases. Given that this is a manual process, we cannot be certain about the queue times for a rollback. If you have already claimed in game credit, you will not be eligible for a cash refund as well."


Showering the players with dubs costs them nothing. It might warp the internal game economy for a bit, but the goodwill would be immense.

 

I think that is the step in the right direction, but also giving valuable freebies to the people not affected would do better. 

At the end of the day doing the above and what I suggested costs them nothing...they still make bank on the microtransactions for gold. This way MORE people are playing the game and propping up wargaming for doing a great job and giving them freebies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10
[WKY12]
Members
32 posts
8,531 battles

It is not about some ships 'having higher rates' wargaming. It's about as a new player with no premium ships, if I open one of those crates I have no possible chance to get a ship that is NOT on the short-list. What is the point of opening a santa crate when I can't even get the grand prize on my first roll?

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2
[PIZZA]
Members
17 posts
20,222 battles

They have such strange interactions with customers at times I wonder if there is any real strategic planning or understanding around messaging.  For example, I grabbed the Z44 and played it 3 games and kinda hate it.  It was not clearly stated to me that this would be a German DD without Hydro, there were no reviews up at the time.  I tried for a refund and their answer was you played more than 1 game so it cannot be refunded.  I would have much preferred that they just told me it cannot be refunded instead of directing me to an arbitrary number of games that I am allowed to play in a new boat that is not stated anywhere in the process of buying the boat for coal.  It legitimately pissed me off and the phrasing of the ticket response was very passive aggressive like I should have known I could only play 1 game?  Just tell me refund is not available for this ship currently and I go away a much less irritated customer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,866
[PVE]
Members
4,838 posts
21,237 battles
39 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

So I work in advertising and have dabbled in public relations quite a bit lately. My job: I write pretty words that make people buy things. This also gives me the ability to detect corporate bull**** really easily.

However I read the above statement this morning, and I can very easily tell the hidden hand of advertising at play. So let me take the time and translate this for you all, so we all understand what this means.

------

1. We've received a lot of questions and comments regarding 2020 Santa Containers, and we would like to clarify the situation. 

The fact wargaming has even ACKNOWLEDGED this tells me that they are truly scared of the backlash. For a company to respond to internet backlash means someone important is worried. More than likely what happened, a Verizon rep watching the streams noticed the massive amount of comments and started asking questions causing someone in Wargaming to panic/actually care.

2. As some of you noticed, certain ships in the containers have much higher drop rates than others. Santa Containers have worked like this since the very beginning, and until 2018 we even mentioned that peculiarity in the items description. After 2018 it was not present in the description anymore, as it was deemed excessive to the already detailed description.

Well yes, many people knew about the shortlist, however, someone in the marketing department with a psychology background more than likely chimed in "what if we remove this line and see what happens." Essentially they banked on their player population being too stupid (overall) to not put 2 and 2 together that the boxes had a rigged gate. However, for every 100 people screwed, 1 reports positive results on the forum/Reddit...building consumer confidence (subconsciously) that the boxes are a good deal.

3.We're sorry that some of you are left disappointed by the Santa Containers this year. We know this is something that a lot of our players look forward to and the last thing we want is to see you upset approaching holiday season. Thus, we will do the following:

We will work on improving the next Santa event with the feedback and concerns you voiced.
Until Sunday, Dec 13, any player is eligible for a one-time refund request for the Santa Crates they purchased. Please refer to Customer Support if you would like to have a refund, and please note, in order to prevent longer queue times, all purchases you want to refund should be in one request. The refunds will be handled according to the normal procedure – the goods from the containers should still be on your account, otherwise, Customer Support will have to do a roll-back to restore them and process the refund.

This one is a freebie Wargaming: NEVER-EVER-EVER started "we're sorry that x happened" when you've been caught deliberately misleading your loyal player base, and effectively stealing from them. It sounds like a robot is trying to show the mob empathy, and judging by Reddit you're not getting away with it. 

What you SHOULD have done is admit your wrongdoing, and instead just offering those who got screwed a refund - offer something very valuable to EVERY player. This is how you drown out those who were grieved with newly won brand ambassadors. In the industry, we call this gesture a "pallet cleanser." I mentioned this before, give people the chance to own one of the banned ships...imagine what would happen if people could replace their anger from the loot boxes with the pure joy of getting a boat they always wanted - Missouri, Belfast, Enterprise, Kutuzov

It should also be noted they will not actually improve the Santa event next year. Again the same person who tried to slip us a mickey with removing that VERY VITAL PIECE OF COPY about the nature of the boxes will come up with some new scheme. 

This section concerns me greatly:

"otherwise, Customer Support will have to do a roll-back to restore them and process the refund."

So if you want a refund, you're essentially locked out from playing the game. ANY PROGRESS between your loot box purchase and the date of refund is basically null and void. They will reset your account and wipe all progress. This is a terrible idea because low and behold it opens Wargaming up to more ire...

4. Regardless of whether you were considering Santa Containers at all, we hope you will enjoy all of the holiday activities and gifts this year – stay tuned for more news on the upcoming celebration.

What celebration? Do you mean people will want to take part in supporting your company after you ripped off a bunch of people and gave such a weak response? Sure people will still play, but your credit has been hurt severely with many community contributors reporting this fiasco. Their reach is vast, and this could potentially hurt the overall growth and support of this game from potential partnerships.

5. Thank you, good luck, and fair seas.

World of Warships team

Thank you? For what? 

---------

Fire your writer wargaming, and hire a public relations firm that knows what they are doing. You're not Disney where someone will take the bullet for the mouse. 

Your number 1 is EXACTLY what happened. 

The only people our host fears are sponsors and Governments.  And, the former scared the crap out of them; and, the latter is collecting data for a Senate bill...........

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
325
[SNGNS]
Members
589 posts
6,869 battles

... so non of you have heard of the rollback? that is literally the only method to get a refund for anything used for literally years...

and those of you who say "they should have let us all pick a removed or tier 9... in what game did you get that high level item before, so that i can join?

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,475
[REVY]
Members
8,169 posts
6,118 battles
47 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

What you SHOULD have done is admit your wrongdoing, and instead just offering those who got screwed a refund - offer something very valuable to EVERY player. This is how you drown out those who were grieved with newly won brand ambassadors. In the industry, we call this gesture a "pallet cleanser."

I agree, as someone who also has a background in Graphic Design and thus a part of marketing, they marketed these Santa Containers as "gifts".  This make it sound like the rigged lootboxes were their idea of a present, of their generosity.  That's just the worst possible adjective to describe their lootboxes.  It just magnifies just how little honesty matters to them, which they could have easily avoided by just not calling them "gifts".

 

mega gift.jpg

Edited by Sventex
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,082
[FRR]
Members
824 posts
5 minutes ago, HTSMetal said:

The best part about all of this are the lessons learned.

Prior events have shown Wargaming regards their customer base with something akin to apathy, but this has shown they're further willing to omit, lie, and cheat to get paid.

Inevitably it makes a person wonder how much of the same is coded into their game.

That's not someone I'll do business with ever again.

 

28 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Yeah, the fact that they’re actually handing out refunds on this means that they really screwed up this time, and have reason to believe that they’re open to legal liability. Nothing else would prompt them to return cash/credit payments or take on the added legwork of having to review every associated account. 


They implicitly admit that they screwed up, big time. And then they offer something which is totally complicated, given their current rules and the lack of a clear, concise, transparent advisory. Worse, the descriptions in the Premium Shop has not been changed.

I think it would be better if they:

1) Suspend all Santa Crate sales until the dust settles to avoid confusion and possible abuse of the refund on both sides.

2) Refund all those containers purchased with doubloons. 50%, 60%, it depends, for as long as the player who purchased Santa Crates 2020 gets to keep ALL of the contents of those containers they bought, be it Makarov, Yudachi, etc.

3) Update the descriptions of their Santa Crates. 

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,082
[FRR]
Members
824 posts
2 minutes ago, Niftyness said:

It is not about some ships 'having higher rates' wargaming. It's about as a new player with no premium ships, if I open one of those crates I have no possible chance to get a ship that is NOT on the short-list. What is the point of opening a santa crate when I can't even get the grand prize on my first roll?

To make you spend more. Total revenue per customer, over a predetermined period of time. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,475
[REVY]
Members
8,169 posts
6,118 battles
4 minutes ago, TobTorp said:

... so non of you have heard of the rollback? that is literally the only method to get a refund for anything used for literally years...

and those of you who say "they should have let us all pick a removed or tier 9... in what game did you get that high level item before, so that i can join?

It's called Fate Grand Order.  They give out fantastic Welfares.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×