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Coal ships - Marceau or Z-44

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I’ve got all the other coal ships....except yoshino. But I’m more interested in one of these two DDs. Or is there anything new coming for coal that I should wait on? 
 

Notser says the Z-46 is basically the better choice than the Z-44. I did enjoy the 46, but sold it when I got the 56. I have the Kleber and it can be fun to play....which should I get? Or what else is in the pipeline for coal? 

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just my opinion,. but i have the Marceau and do not like it.  I find that I cant get damage, or effect the game at all,

I watched a number of reviews on youtube, and they had similar feelings.

 

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I have the Marceau and it’s not a ship that I usually do well in, my WASD don’t fly as fast as necessary to do well in it although very good players (not me) can get great results. I don’t have the z-44 but I have seen zero reviews proclaiming it to be anything better than meh.
 

Speaking for myself I wish I could have my coal back and get anything else.

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I have the Marceau and like it. She is FAST! Her only drawback is her short gun range. She melts other DDs in close quarters combat. I don’t have the Z44. Her lack of hydro really has me on hold. I did see my first one yesterday. She finished top of her team with three kills. Can’t be all bad...

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22 minutes ago, Cody_The_Destroyer said:

I’ve got all the other coal ships....except yoshino. But I’m more interested in one of these two DDs. Or is there anything new coming for coal that I should wait on? 
 

Notser says the Z-46 is basically the better choice than the Z-44. I did enjoy the 46, but sold it when I got the 56. I have the Kleber and it can be fun to play....which should I get? Or what else is in the pipeline for coal? 

I don't have the Marceau but the impression I get is that it has more theoretical damage output over Kléber but lacks the excellent ballistics of 139mm so actually hitting at range is harder, likewise lacking the potential for huge burst damage from not having a MBRB.

 

As for Z-44, I trust you've read LWM's review of it?

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1 minute ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

I don't have the Marceau but the impression I get is that it has more theoretical damage output over Kléber but lacks the excellent ballistics of 139mm so actually hitting at range is harder, likewise lacking the potential for huge burst damage from not having a MBRB.

 

As for Z-44, I trust you've read LWM's review of it?

I have. I love all LWM’s reviews. Some clan mates have one or the other as well and both like each ship. But neither have both to make a distinction between the two. 

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Z-44 is a busted ship IMO due to failing the gun DPM to concealment check.  It has no hydro like other German DDs do to fix the issue.  Worse it has very poor gun DPM already but a narrow window to actually use that pitiful DPM.  This angle is being very broadside.  As soon as you angle to mitigate damage, you lose at least 1/5 of the DPM.  To put in perspective Yugumo has 27k more HE DPM but also .7km better concealment.  With no hydro to fight on better terms its going to fail.

Marceau however is a great boat.  Zoom out one or two clicks to compensate for the long shell travel times.

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39 minutes ago, Cody_The_Destroyer said:

I’ve got all the other coal ships....except yoshino. But I’m more interested in one of these two DDs. Or is there anything new coming for coal that I should wait on? 
 

Notser says the Z-46 is basically the better choice than the Z-44. I did enjoy the 46, but sold it when I got the 56. I have the Kleber and it can be fun to play....which should I get? Or what else is in the pipeline for coal? 

Marceau over Z-44. Z-44 is the poorer brother to the Z-46, with no hydro.

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I had to make this same choice this weekend, and ultimately I went with Marceau. While I nominally prefer torpedo boats, Marceau has all of the tools needed to be a strong gunship destroyer. Conversely, Z-44 seems like a middling torpedo destroyer at best. While I hope to snag her eventually, nothing about the ship makes her a priority. 

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The other factor I’m weighing is the impact of the new dd skill tree. This might change how they’re played. You need more range for the Marceau guns to really work. I need to look at those again. Are they losing AFT and BFT or was that just the cruiser line? 

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Just now, Cody_The_Destroyer said:

The other factor I’m weighing is the impact of the new dd skill tree. This might change how they’re played. You need more range for the Marceau guns to really work. I need to look at those again. Are they losing AFT and BFT or was that just the cruiser line? 

DDs last I checked had access to AFT, but I wanted to say the new version of BFT was nerfed a bit.  Dont quote me on the last, I havent had my coffee yet.  AFT is there though 100%.

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4 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

DDs last I checked had access to AFT, but I wanted to say the new version of BFT was nerfed a bit.  Dont quote me on the last, I havent had my coffee yet.  AFT is there though 100%.

Thanks! Thank you all for your input. Pretty sure I’m going Marceau on this. 

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Z-44 is a Z-46 with slightly better torps but notably worse guns. Honestly, anything a Z-44 can do, Benham, Yugumo, and Ostergotland do it better

Marceau is a Kleber with insane DPM but shells that travel to Mars before landing on target. I think Kleber/Mogador are better (and more fun) but vs. Z-44, Marceau is miles better

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31 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Marceau however is a great boat.  Zoom out one or two clicks to compensate for the long shell travel times.

I guess I have to watch one of you youtube videos of how to get this ship going.  

I do really will in my Halland, Friesland, Haraugumo and Shimakaze, but cant seem to get the hang of this one.

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4 minutes ago, _Guest_ said:

I guess I have to watch one of you youtube videos of how to get this ship going.  

I do really will in my Halland, Friesland, Haraugumo and Shimakaze, but cant seem to get the hang of this one.

Just like Kleber, you need the range mod or AFT to make it work. Then you can either open water gun boat and draw fire while kiting away, or you can use the low islands to farm ships. That’s my take anyway. Also use you speed to cap and zoom down the flanks if left open 

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I like the Z-44! Ive only got about 10 matches in it but so far have done well with it. Build it to be a concealment torp spammer & you prolly wont be disappointed. It could really use hydro though!  

Only thing about it is you gotta get out of your head the notion of gun fighting. Its AP hits hard but the reload time is just slow enough to get you killed. Stay hidden & spam torps! 

Edited by MizzenMast

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Marceau is an Smolensk on a Kleber hull. A continous rain of fire but with slow parabolic US DD shells. It can shred any enemy DD if you can get close enough. 9km torps with 3min reload.

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6 minutes ago, MizzenMast said:

I like the Z-44! Ive only got about 10 matches in it but so far have done well with it. Build it to be a concealment torp spammer & you prolly wont be disappointed. It could really use hydro though!  

Only thing about it is you gotta get out of your head the notion of gun fighting. Its AP hits hard but the reload time is just slow enough to get you killed. Stay hidden & spam torps! 

Thanks for your input! I’m still in the fence wrt the Z44 but I like stealth torp play and am looking for a new ship to try out. Yes there are better ships at T9 but I have the coal and nothing else strikes an interest. 

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50 minutes ago, _Guest_ said:

I guess I have to watch one of you youtube videos of how to get this ship going.  

I do really will in my Halland, Friesland, Haraugumo and Shimakaze, but cant seem to get the hang of this one.

Helping you out.

 

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12 minutes ago, cgbosn4 said:

Yes there are better ships at T9...

I have never been about playing the best ships. For me thats one of the reason I like the Z-44. Its already getting a rep for being a meh boat. Thats not true! Sure its got some limitations but if you play to its strengths its a force to be reckoned with. 
I am a very average DD player so if I can do well I think someone truly good at DD play could wreak havoc in it. 

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2 hours ago, tfcas119 said:

Z-44 is a Z-46 with slightly better torps but notably worse guns. Honestly, anything a Z-44 can do, Benham, Yugumo, and Ostergotland do it better

Marceau is a Kleber with insane DPM but shells that travel to Mars before landing on target. I think Kleber/Mogador are better (and more fun) but vs. Z-44, Marceau is miles better

^This. Couldn't have said it better myself. 

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2 hours ago, MizzenMast said:

I have never been about playing the best ships. For me thats one of the reason I like the Z-44. Its already getting a rep for being a meh boat. Thats not true! Sure its got some limitations but if you play to its strengths its a force to be reckoned with. 
I am a very average DD player so if I can do well I think someone truly good at DD play could wreak havoc in it. 

I bought the Z44 this afternoon with coal. I love DD play & a challenge so what the heck...

After four matches I went 1-3 and on the top of the one win. I tried my Z-52 captain first but found I really want the torp reload captain skill which he didn’t have. I ramped up my Z46 captain with torp reload and got it down to 60 something seconds. Nice...

Her torps are her bread & butter. You really have to play her differently than anything else German. I’m still confused why WGing didn’t give her hydro. The 44 has better torps than the 46 but I think the 46 is better at everything else (guns, AA, detect range, AND HYDRO).

Yes, I know I have a very small test sample but if I had to pick between the 44 or the 46 I’d go with the 46. I played two matches in the 46 waiting for my dead Z44 to come back to port and I won both and finished top three in one. I also had two kills because of my ability to hydro the enemy DD. 

Wging, if your listing, please put hydro on the Z44. I honestly don’t think it would make it OP and make her more in line with the rest of the German line. 

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Kuro,  Thanks alot,  very helpful.  I will try it again.  Its been sitting in my port since I couldn't figure it out.

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5 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Helping you out.

Tried your methods,  also reset my captain and upgrades.  What a difference.  This was a lot of fun.  I misspoke in my ignorance earlier when I said this was not a good ship.

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