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Jingles tkes the P out of WG.... again..

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The video and Jingle's ramble is worth watching, but he starts talking about the SatanCrates from about 14:08

The blind player coordinating her helpers is very interesting to hear about. Would be interesting to have a stream of them playing.

Edited by SoothingWhaleSongEU
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I would take her on my team.

Jingles summed  up santa crates nicely.  At one point he discusses they didn't lie but they chose their words very very deliberately.
Why so sneaky with their wording? Here is how I think it happens (Based on my life experiences)

Someone at a high level makes a decision; we want the crates to drop this way.  

The game designers write the code. 

Someone at a low level has to explain it.  The person at a low level writes  it up. This goes to legal who approves if it isn't a bald faced lie. 

It goes back to the high level person who denies if it reads like it discourages buying. 

Back to the low level person who now has to put in enough weasel words to satisfy both the boss and legal. 

And you end up with what we see.

 

 

Edited by cmdr_bigdog
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7 minutes ago, cmdr_bigdog said:

I would take her on my team.

Jingles summed  up santa crates nicely.  At one point he discusses they didn't lie but they chose their words very very deliberately.
Why so sneaky with their wording? Here is how I think it happens (Based on my life experiences)

Someone at a high level makes a decision; we want the crates to drop this way.  

The game designers write the code. 

Someone at a low level has to explain it.  The person at a low level writes  it up. This goes to legal who approves if it isn't a bald faced lie. 

It goes back to the high level person who denies if it reads like it discourages buying. 

Back to the low level person who now has to put in enough weasel words to satisfy both the boss and legal. 

And you end up with what we see.

 

 

Yep.

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12 minutes ago, cmdr_bigdog said:

I would take her on my team.

Jingles summed  up santa crates nicely.  At one point he discusses they didn't lie but they chose their words very very deliberately.
Why so sneaky with their wording? Here is how I think it happens (Based on my life experiences)

Someone at a high level makes a decision; we want the crates to drop this way.  

The game designers write the code. 

Someone at a low level has to explain it.  The person at a low level writes  it up. This goes to legal who approves if it isn't a bald faced lie. 

It goes back to the high level person who denies if it reads like it discourages buying. 

Back to the low level person who now has to put in enough weasel words to satisfy both the boss and legal. 

And you end up with what we see.

As others have shown the 2016 Christmas Box and 2017 Christmas Box news articles very much presented each type of gift box as a chance to win certain ships and a very small chance of getting others. I didn't open back then any but my understanding is for at least one of these years then if you "rolled" a ship you already owned then you got the value in doubloons rather than from the list of Premium ships you didn't yet own.

Of course back then there were not only vastly fewer premium ships but also far fewer were outright unavailable.

But they were not described in this way from the 2018 Loot Box or last year.
My suspicion is that the same shortlist mechanic coding have carried across since 2016 but how they were marketed were different.

Although the ships in 2018 and 2019 perhaps were simply more common ships or for whatever reason people were less inclined to spot the pattern before.

Edited by SoothingWhaleSongEU
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10 minutes ago, cmdr_bigdog said:

I would take her on my team.

Jingles summed  up santa crates nicely.  At one point he discusses they didn't lie but they chose their words very very deliberately.
Why so sneaky with their wording? Here is how I think it happens (Based on my life experiences)

Someone at a high level makes a decision; we want the crates to drop this way.  

The game designers write the code. 

Someone at a low level has to explain it.  The person at a low level writes  it up. This goes to legal who approves if it isn't a bald faced lie. 

It goes back to the high level person who denies if it reads like it discourages buying. 

Back to the low level person who now has to put in enough weasel words to satisfy both the boss and legal. 

And you end up with what we see.

 

 

I imagine you're correct on some level.  I would find it amusing though if somewhere in the EU they find the weaseling to be insufficient.  

Look.  Lest some people forget, this time of year is supposed to be about *giving* and *goodwill*.  WG is a company, and they can't just hand everyone a Missouri and think that's a rational decision for a company, but things like the Santa boxes could stand to be nicer.  The first year they were out they were, and doubles were even 110% nice because it was basically buying doubloons on discount.

WG's decisions over the years have become increasingly more greedy.  To every person who feels these boxes are fine and the outrage isn't justified, well when you lay out a slot machine that wasn't even explained to you so you could spend more was released during this season, consider it is underhanded.

***Just because it was underhanded for years prior to the discovery of the short list, doesn't justify its existence.***  Say. it. with. me. now.

Sheesh.  No wonder why i'm on reddit more now.  At least the pathetic white-knighting here isn't so prevalent there.  

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Which begs the question: Why  go to such disingenuous lengths?

Answer: It's cheaper than actually developing a better product.

Or at least we think it might be. We've never tried to make money any other way and we know these sorts of shenanigan's work. 

Why bother to innovate if being deceitful little (edited)™ gets us paid?

 

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1 minute ago, Curly__san said:

Which begs the question: Why  go to such disingenuous lengths? 

Answer: It's cheaper than actually developing a better product.

Or at least we think it might be. We've never tried to make money any other way and we know these sorts of shenanigan's work. 

Why bother to innovate if being deceitful little (edited)™ gets us paid?

 

World of Warships: A game of careful reading.

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Mostly it happens because someone at a high level proofreads the low level persons language to see if it will bite them in the [edited].  He only reads it to see if it will encourage or discourage buying. 
Legal reads the language to see if is blatantly false or if their is enough wiggle room they can somewhat defend it in court. 

And somewhere a mid-level person is saying "I told you that this was not going to end well." 

A smart company would promote him.

But in the real world he gets reassigned to the mail room. 

 

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31 minutes ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

As others have shown the 2016 Christmas Box and 2017 Christmas Box news articles very much presented each type of gift box as a chance to win certain ships and a very small chance of getting others. I didn't open back then any but my understanding is for at least one of these years then if you "rolled" a ship you already owned then you got the value in doubloons rather than from the list of Premium ships you didn't yet own.

Of course back then there were not only vastly fewer premium ships but also far fewer were outright unavailable.

But they were not described in this way from the 2018 Loot Box or last year.
My suspicion is that the same shortlist mechanic coding have carried across since 2016 but how they were marketed were different.

Although the ships in 2018 and 2019 perhaps were simply more common ships or for whatever reason people were less inclined to spot the pattern before.

^^^^^Thank you for recognizing this. This is true, we have NOT changed the mechanics in the crates for YEARS! And I know for a fact that we mentioned this during streams and in posts back then, because as a player back then, I agreed if I spent $1, $3 or $5 I should know that my odds of winning a $50 or higher item are going to be low.

Nothing about our Santa Crates this year is NEW except that we added some of the new premium items.

-Hapa

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4 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

^^^^^Thank you for recognizing this. This is true, we have NOT changed the mechanics in the crates for YEARS! And I know for a fact that we mentioned this during streams and in posts back then, because as a player back then, I agreed if I spent $1, $3 or $5 I should know that my odds of winning a $50 or higher item are going to be low.

Nothing about our Santa Crates this year is NEW except that we added some of the new premium items.

-Hapa

However the marketing has drastically changed.
In 2016 and 2017 the news article specifically states the short listed ships. 
This is lacking from 2018, 2019 and 2020, in either the news article or even more importantly the Point of Sale in the Armoury or Premium shop.

This is a significant problem. Esp. for the newer players who are most affected by it.

Edited by SoothingWhaleSongEU
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AHAHAHAHAH, Sure @Hapa_Fodder. I get it you work for them so you are going to say what you need to say, or they have run stuff by you so if it does come up so you can deflect. There is to much evidence that shows otherwise, that the crates are rigged. Check Flamu's video and actually talk to your community. There is a reason why a lot of people left the CC community and other staff has left. WG is garbo. Please don't fall into the trap of them. You seem like a good dude. You don't need that kind of negativity from WG to corrupt you my dude.

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A deceptive mechanic doesn't become less deceptive because "we told you about it a few years ago and it hasn't changed."

If I have 0 of the "short-listed" ships and buy a container, my chance of getting anything other than a short-listed ship is 0%, yet the article says I have a chance at getting any of the 107.  How is that article not deceptive or outright lying?

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2 minutes ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

However the marketing has drastically changed.
In 2016 and 2017 the news article specifically states the short listed ships. 
This is lacking from 2018, 2019 and 2020, in either the news article or even more importantly the Point of Sale in the Armoury or Premium shop.

This is a significant problem. Esp. for the newer players who are most affected by it.

Though I would agree that the wording could be better, it was not intentional, if you look at the size of those articles they are pretty long.

We have to always walk a fine line of an article being TOO LONG and an article being too short. As it seems it's a human trait that reading is OP, we tend to try to cut down the size.

We can literally put EVERY SINGLE little nuance of everything in a mechanic into an article and we will still be told that "we never said something" or we "hid" something or we "lied" about something.

-Hapa

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Just now, Hapa_Fodder said:

Though I would agree that the wording could be better, it was not intentional, if you look at the size of those articles they are pretty long.

We have to always walk a fine line of an article being TOO LONG and an article being too short. As it seems it's a human trait that reading is OP, we tend to try to cut down the size.

We can literally put EVERY SINGLE little nuance of everything in a mechanic into an article and we will still be told that "we never said something" or we "hid" something or we "lied" about something.

-Hapa

This might be a clue that the mechanics around something as simple as a random draw are far too complicated and should be simplified to something like, you know...a random draw.

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3 minutes ago, Lazysteel said:

AHAHAHAHAH, Sure @Hapa_Fodder. I get it you work for them so you are going to say what you need to say, or they have run stuff by you so if it does come up so you can deflect. There is to much evidence that shows otherwise, that the crates are rigged. Check Flamu's video and actually talk to your community. There is a reason why a lot of people left the CC community and other staff has left. WG is garbo. Please don't fall into the trap of them. You seem like a good dude. You don't need that kind of negativity from WG to corrupt you my dude.

No offense, but I have always and WILL ALWAYS give my PERSONAL opinion if asked. Just because I work for WG doesn't mean I HAVE to always be positive about everything. I am being honest, 100% with my opinion. I'm sorry, Flamu's video directly is just inflammatory, anyone that does a little bit of research can see that we HAVE NOT CHANGED our mechanics.

I also understand that people won't believe me, but all I can do, is continue to be straight forward and honest with what I say.

At the end of the day, if you don't like a mechanic or something specifically, it is YOUR CHOICE what to do with your money.

-Hapa

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10 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

^^^^^Thank you for recognizing this. This is true, we have NOT changed the mechanics in the crates for YEARS! And I know for a fact that we mentioned this during streams and in posts back then, because as a player back then, I agreed if I spent $1, $3 or $5 I should know that my odds of winning a $50 or higher item are going to be low.

Nothing about our Santa Crates this year is NEW except that we added some of the new premium items.

-Hapa

lol

You make it seem that awful excuse is somewhat acceptable, which is not, as what happened in previous years are irrelevant. Not only that doesn't not excuse the fact that you falsely advertised the containers THIS YEAR, you are also not taking into account new players.

What a shame.

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2 minutes ago, WarStore said:

lol

You make it seem that awful excuse is somewhat acceptable, which is not, as what happened in previous years are irrelevant. Not only that doesn't not excuse the fact that you falsely advertised the containers THIS YEAR, you are also not taking into account new players.

What a shame.

Explain how we have "falsely advertised the containers THIS YEAR" just curious.

-Hapa

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9 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Though I would agree that the wording could be better, it was not intentional, if you look at the size of those articles they are pretty long.

We have to always walk a fine line of an article being TOO LONG and an article being too short. As it seems it's a human trait that reading is OP, we tend to try to cut down the size.

We can literally put EVERY SINGLE little nuance of everything in a mechanic into an article and we will still be told that "we never said something" or we "hid" something or we "lied" about something.

-Hapa

I'm afraid that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. 
The start of the article very clearly spends time repeating the choicest gifts which are then repeated in the later very long list.

The 2016 and 2017 news articles managed to frame the reality of what ships are the intended prizes and then lists the remote chance later. 
The 2020 news article starts with the most unlikely gifts and buries the likely ones (esp. for the players without ports full of premium ships) in amongst a list of 107.
The outcome is deceptive and I find it highly unlikely that someone in the chain was not aware of the actual mechanics.

Please provide a list clearly demonstrating the chance of each drop in future articles, even a link to a spreadsheet would suffice if it's that complex.

Edited by SoothingWhaleSongEU

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5 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

I am being honest, 100% with my opinion. I'm sorry, Flamu's video directly is just inflammatory, anyone that does a little bit of research can see that we HAVE NOT CHANGED our mechanics.

No one is saying the crate mechanics have changed, and you know that.  People are rightfully upset because the marketing is deliberately misleading.

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2 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Explain how we have "falsely advertised the containers THIS YEAR" just curious.

-Hapa

You mean how you stated that the GIFT containers had all these ships and you hid the short list among all of them, which is a flat out lie?
I wonder what could possibly be wrong with this.

scam.png

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1 minute ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

I'm afraid that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. 
The start of the article very clearly spends time repeating the choicest gifts which are then repeated in the later very long list.

The 2016 and 2017 news articles managed to frame the reality of what ships are the intended prizes and then lists the remote chance later. 
The 2020 news article starts with the most unlikely gifts and buries the likely ones (esp. for the players without ports full of premium ships) in amongst a list of 107.
The outcome is deceptive and I find it highly unlikely that someone in the chain was not aware of the actual mechanics.

Please provide a list clearly demonstrating the chance of each drop in future articles, even a link to a spreadsheet would suffice if it's that complex.

And as I stated above, every single year, we publicly state (not necessarily in articles, but on streams, forum posts, social media etc) that the chances ARE lower for more expensive items.

The reason for this is even when we disclosed as much as we could, people still complained and stated, as they are this year.

-Hapa

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ok @Hapa_Fodder. No worries man. I, like many people are leaving the game period. It was fun while it lasted but the run for me is done. You are right though. They haven't changed in years. There has always been a short list for mega and small gifts, and mega. So they have been screwing people for years. That is one of the honest things you have said on here. You are right I will be going else ware with my money. Have fun at the company for the few years you will be there and then bounce. I hope it will be fun and educational and you learn a lot. Mostly what NOT to do as a game developer and as a company period. Like I said you seem like a good dude, just don't let WG eat you up and spit you out like they have done to many. Good luck, as a fellow vet I wish you the best in you endeavors. GO ARMY BEAT NAVY lol. cheers mate!! 

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