Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Captain_Rawhide

Duke of York - Garbage?

37 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

578
[WOLFG]
Members
1,006 posts

Little White Mouse has this listed as 'Garbage' in her reviews.  Something about 'what we lost', but I have no idea what that means.  So is the ship trash or is it worth the coal it is being offered for now?

Thanks.

Edited by Captain_Rawhide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[-HEL-]
Beta Testers
53 posts
7,089 battles

dont listen to reviewers m8 the DoY is an amazing tier 7 BB. make your own judgement. dont be a sheep that worships every review, like some do.

  • Cool 3
  • Haha 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
203
[CRUEL]
Members
496 posts
8,486 battles

I have less than 100 matches in her but my wr is high. It's a great ship, use he more than ap and go after cruisers and dds. It does have trouble in ranked tier 7 vs sinop/nelson due to overmatch issues. Have fun!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
578
[WOLFG]
Members
1,006 posts
2 minutes ago, Copperhead550 said:

dont listen to reviewers m8 the DoY is an amazing tier 7 BB. make your own judgement. dont be a sheep that worships every review, like some do.

I understand what you mean, but I have to start somewhere.  It's not like WG has a return policy.  I don't have enough resources to throw away on ships that are going to sit in port.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,071
[FRR]
Members
820 posts
7 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Little White Mouse has this listed as 'Garbage' in her reviews.  Something about 'what we lost', but I have no idea what that means.  So is the ship trash or is it worth the coal it is being offered for now?

Thanks.

2 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

I understand what you mean, but I have to start somewhere.  It's not like WG has a return policy.  I don't have enough resources to throw away on ships that are going to sit in port.  

I check other sources to compare their findings with LWM's. 

And then I check videos of the reviewed ship in actual combat.

 

 

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,683
[WORX]
Members
11,964 posts
19,495 battles
9 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

o is the ship trash or is it worth the coal it is being offered for now?

The Puke of York are only for BB masters or players who are dedicated to the BB class. For those who are not in this category, its not a forgiving ship.

Use her at your own risk.

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Meh 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,663
[KWF]
Members
5,239 posts
6,659 battles

Duke of York as far as I know isn't bad in the sense the KGV isn't bad either. You get the Hydro but sacrifice some reload time etc. That said Duke has improved AP penetration angles which is little known.

What Whitemouse talked about was about one of the test versions of Duke of York that didn't have a Repair Party if I remember correctly, but had cruiser accuracy. Among BBs at the time this was very unique, but instead WG considered it too alien to implement as reactions among testers were either complete love, or absolute hate.

Personally I would keep my coal for now, and if I really wanted a tier VII RN BB I would go for Nelson. That's not to say DoY is bad.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
65
[_BDA_]
Members
119 posts
3,523 battles
18 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Little White Mouse has this listed as 'Garbage' in her reviews.  Something about 'what we lost', but I have no idea what that means.  So is the ship trash or is it worth the coal it is being offered for now?

Thanks.

Honestly, that "Garbage" label doesn't really tell the hole picture and you should really read the full review. However, she does have a point as Duke of York is arguably worse than her tech-tree counterpart King George V. The reason for this is that Duke of York Trades 4.5 seconds of reload on her main batter guns, worse rudder shift, and access to the spotter plane for Hydrocustic Search and slightly better AA. This is most people's books a terrible trade, LWM's included. It isn't helped by the fact "we lost" what was arguably a more interesting ship that was Duke of York's original configuration. She lost access to a Repair Party but gained cruiser parameters such as the Cruiser version of the DCP and 30 fire duration along with other things such as 25 second reload and and 2.05 sigma. 

However, with that being said, that does not make Duke of York a bad ship and she can still perform well and be fun to play, its just that an arguably better version of her can be found in the tech tree for free, though you can now get Duke of York for free as well. It is also important to note that Changes have been made to Duke of York ever since that review was written, She got an extra charge on her Repair Party and the cooldown on it was lowered but her citadel was raised above the water line making her much more vulnerable.

Edited by cheekywarship2018
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[-HEL-]
Beta Testers
53 posts
7,089 battles

@Hukom

thats a great idea to do! homework on ships you want. just you have to be careful with reviews. look how old this 1 is the review is from when it was in testing so its completely different from the one we have ingame.

As for me if i think its a pretty ship and has decent stats i'll try her out if i hate it, she goes in the mothball fleet.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14,233
[ARGSY]
Members
22,374 posts
16,264 battles
4 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

So is the ship trash or is it worth the coal it is being offered for now?

DISCLOSURE: The 2017 event which gave her out as the final prize was my introduction to Christmas events after just a few months in the game. I played for her and failed because I had too narrow a selection of ships and wasn't skilled enough to get past a certain bottleneck with the eligible ships I actually had. When this patch dropped, I had more coal than I knew what to do with and I picked her up out of an impulse that might have been called revenge ("Ha Ha, I got her without paying after all, so there!").

I got her because I wanted her and had more than enough coal for her, not because I needed her as badly as I did in December 2017.

 

With that out of the way...

 

I'm having great fun in co-op with mine; haven't taken it out in Randoms yet (when I have the time and energy to do Random battles, I am using that time and energy to grind Kansas toward Minnesota. 

If you have played and liked the KGV and you want a premium version with a few changes that you can drop a 19 point captain into without having to retrain, she might be your go-to.

If you want to climb the UK battleship line and you want a free premium to retrain captains on without spending FXP to get the Nelson (e.g. because you're desperately clawing your way toward the Alaska before she goes away or because you would rather spend it on any other FXP ship) and you'll never get enough coal for the Thunderer before she's pulled, she's worth a look. She's a few knots faster than the Nelson, and her hydro lets you consider risks you might not otherwise take in a battleship that isn't German and Tier 8 plus.

If you haven't yet climbed the UK BB tech tree, wait until the next Public Test then sign up for that, get on it, get the KGV (she's not hard to get there) and play her to see if you like the hull and the guns. DOY reloads somewhat slower, but 29 seconds is still acceptable for the tier. That gives you sort of a window into what you'd be letting yourself in for. 

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,354 posts
17,100 battles

DOY is not bad. It's not great and if I were you I would spend the coal elsewhere. I have both ships and KG5 is superior. Get yourself a KG5 and you'll be much happier. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
342
[SALTY]
Beta Testers
608 posts
7,569 battles

I've already replied about this in a past DoY thread.

She's the worst tier 7 RN BB in almost every category, as per server stats. She does even worse than Hood in most things, which is...impressive.

Garbage is being generous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
323 posts
25 battles

I am in the very odd position of having over 337000 coal and nothing I want to spend it on more that DoY. To my surprise I very much enjoyed playing KGV

Firstly

So LWM did, and for many good reasons listed in the review, but it has got at least a bit buffed since the "lost" use of Repair Party was returned.

Her more recent commentary on the Battleship thread.
 

Spoiler

Summary:  A King George V-class battleship that trades a significant loss in rate of fire for improved auto-bounce angles on her AP shells, a Hydroacoustic Search consumable and large increase to her AA firepower.
Release History: First sold December 20th, 2017 til January 17th, 2018.  Returned to the online store on June 8th, 2018.  Became available for doubloons on September 18th, 2018. Added to the Armory for doubloons with patch 0.8.2 in April of 2019.
Angry YouTuber Review:  GARBAGE
Mouse's Notes:  Duke of York is a good ship.  I just hate what we lost access to in order to get her in the game.

Also Mouse does explicitly *does say* to always take her angry Youtube rating with a grain of salt and read the full review. She's stopped doing them recently because people just read a single word rather than the review.

Quote

These older reviews should be taken as snap-shots of the ships as they existed at the time they were published.  The meta and even the core mechanics of World of Warships has changed very significantly over time, so think of anything more than a 18 months old as a snapshot of how these ships played, once upon a time.

(I probably shouldn't treat her words as Sacred Divine Ship truth, she tells us all not to but...)

The thing about DoY is I think you effectively get a KGV with slower reload, less DPM for the AP angle and hydro gimmicks, so mostly the KGV has it where it matters and that is in the tech tree for free.

For the Premium economy and captain skill benefits? Sure.

I actually think this is a far better design for what Premium Ships *should be* rather than often just better than tech tree ships... but those ships sailed long, long ago.

Edited by SoothingWhaleSongEU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,704
[SIM]
Members
5,587 posts
9,012 battles

Duke of York is a very good battleship with a lot of strengths. She loses some RoF and a charge of Repair Party compared to King George V, but has an improved AP penetration formula against angles and hydro consumable to compensate.

When DoY was in testing she was a completely different ship, with no heal but cruiser accuracy. WG changed her just before release, testers that liked the original version had a tantrum over it, and roundly assassinated the ship’s reputation as a result. LWM even admitted that her “Garbage” rating was unfair, and says that it’s a decent ship. You can ignore the haters, there’s nothing wrong with the Duke of York.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
3,281 posts
26,944 battles
34 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Little White Mouse has this listed as 'Garbage' in her reviews.  Something about 'what we lost', but I have no idea what that means.  So is the ship trash or is it worth the coal it is being offered for now?

Thanks.

This Battleship is good I destroyed two Enemy Battleships with her the other day , two against one I sank the North Carolina with shells and proceeded shelling the Georgia and when I got close enough Rammed and sunk her also and we then Won.....................   A tier 8 and 9 against my tier 7 BB..............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14,233
[ARGSY]
Members
22,374 posts
16,264 battles
3 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

WG changed her just before release, testers that liked the original version had a tantrum over it, and roundly assassinated the ship’s reputation as a result.

Part of me would like to see the original version ("proto-DOY") brought back, but perhaps as Howe or Anson so there will be no major ructions if a historical battleship with a significant combat record (specifically DOY, KGV, POW) winds up being a faceplant.

Part of me thinks there are too many HE-spewing terrors currently existing within any possible KGV-class ship's matchmaking spread for a no-heal battleship to be viable. Even if you downtiered the unreleased proto-DOY and put her at Tier 6 (where, quite frankly, she wouldn't necessarily be overpowered; even Fuso has more guns of the same calibre), she'd still see things like Akizuki, Boise, Helena and NDJ that would burn her down in a hurry. And given Tier 7's propensity to see Tier 9 a lot more than it used to, she'd see a lot of Kitakaze too.

Unless you gave her a very quick-cycling DCP with long duration, short downtime and infinite charges, proto-DOY is an XP piñata in the current meta.

 

In co-op, the reload is pretty standard for tier even if it is slower than KGV's, while the hydro gives me the confidence to take risks in the presence of destroyers and other torpedo ships that I might be more nervous of in the lead-of-class ship. In addition, what she can do to bot Sinops that give broadside is sickening, but the 16 inch gunned (and higher) ships that you can meet WILL smack your cit through the nose, so be aware of that. Proper angling to take it on the belt instead is essential.

Given that co-op quite often gets fairly brawly anyway, DOY's set of tradeoffs can be seen as a POSITIVE ASSET - but one has to interpret that in the context of one's own intended use of the ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
485
[WOLFG]
Members
662 posts
14,096 battles

I think some people get in their heads that a ship is bad even though they have never played it because they seen a review online, which is silly in my opinion.

I've got over 250 Random games in my Duke of York, and I thinks it's a decent ship, worth the coal. Mind you, she isn't the best tier 7 BB, but she's definitely not the worst.

I really haven't played it much since I got into the higher tiers, but A couple things is I always thought I made decent credits with it. And I remember the hydro saving my butt from DDs numerous times.

I think it is the best new ship of the lot they just added for coal and I don't think you will be disappointed with it.

Edited by Colonel_Potter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
342
[SALTY]
Beta Testers
608 posts
7,569 battles
23 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

You can ignore the haters, there’s nothing wrong with the Duke of York.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it.

Except that it's worse than KGV, worse than Nelson, worse than Hood.

Other than that, it's awesome!!!111!!

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,704
[SIM]
Members
5,587 posts
9,012 battles

@Ensign_Cthulhu Oh, I’d definitely like to see the original test version in the game. I don’t know that it would be a good ship for a free ship event (which Duke of York was), but it’s an interesting concept. Perhaps as a UK coal battleship? Attainable, but not pushed out to most everyone. I think that a lot of players would struggle to play it well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,545
[WOLF3]
Members
28,797 posts
25,049 battles

What LWM mentioned in what we lost with Duke of York was the earlier test versions where DOY had no Repair Party but had Cruiser accuracy.  I actually wanted that to go Live.

Edit:  Siegfried shows what happens when you give BATTLESHIP GUNS with actual, true CRUISER ACCURACY.  But too many people were too scared of the concept and demanded DOY be a regular BB, and the one we have now is the result.

A mediocre ship.

 

In terms of Tier VII Battleship performance, King George V has always been one of the best in tier.  Duke of York numbers are poor even for a Premium Ship.  You can put that squarely on DOY's worse reload for the small 356mm gun size in the tier.

KGV reload is 25 seconds.

DOY reload is 29.5 seconds.

 

If you refuse to believe in the reviews then let me slap ya guys with some statistics.  I'll use EU Server this time because it's a larger server than NA.  Tier VII is a place of some very strong Tech Tree BBs for the tier.

EU Server 3rd Quarter 2020 Stats (2020/06/27 thru 2020/09/26)

Nagato 321,171 Battles / 48.29% WR / 49,389 Dmg Avg

Gneisenau 669,661 / 49.12% / 41,224

Lyon 246,771 / 50.34% / 53,504

King George V 228,687 / 50.72% / 55,683

Sinop 262,770 / 52.03% / 54,995 - The Beast of Sinop

Colorado 328,990 / 48.40% / 48,691

 

And the Premium BBs

Ashitaka 32,811 Battles / 48.01% WR / 47,746 Dmg Avg

Scharnhorst 231,747 / 50.78% / 47,074

Duke of York 50,981 / 48.84% / 45,776

Hood 35,331 / 51.90% / 50,079

Nelson 111,294 / 54.18% / 61,624

Poltava 4,403 / 53.78% / 54,762 - Don't put too much stock in Poltava's stats.  Very few people ever got her and the numbers are super inflated.

California 20,224 / 52.84% / 56,340

 

Considering that the Tech Tree Ships are straddled with the following:

- Stock Module Grinds

- Captain Retraining

... Which the Premium Ships don't have to deal with, Lyon, KGV, Sinop look really good despite having to deal with these issues.

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,704
[SIM]
Members
5,587 posts
9,012 battles
6 minutes ago, Kartaugh said:

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it.

Except that it's worse than KGV, worse than Nelson, worse than Hood.

Other than that, it's awesome!!!111!!

Considering that it has better AP angles than all of those ships, and a hydroaccoustic search consumable that enables it to play a bit more aggressively against DDs and other torpedo slingers, I think that the term that you’re looking for is “different from,” not “worse.”

Have fun on the Island of Unwanted Toys. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14,233
[ARGSY]
Members
22,374 posts
16,264 battles
4 minutes ago, Kartaugh said:

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it.

Except that it's worse than KGV, worse than Nelson, worse than Hood.

Other than that, it's awesome!!!111!!

You don't understand what statistical outliers are, do you?

If you have the ship and want to talk about how terribly she does and where her glaring flaws are, from experience, go right on talking.

If you don't have her and you're just going to sit here and trash her on the basis of stats, I think your opinion is skating on very thin ice.

1 minute ago, SkaerKrow said:

@Ensign_Cthulhu Oh, I’d definitely like to see the original test version in the game. I don’t know that it would be a good ship for a free ship event (which Duke of York was), but it’s an interesting concept. Perhaps as a UK coal battleship? Attainable, but not pushed out to most everyone. I think that a lot of players would struggle to play it well. 

*nods* Strong, the salt would be with that one. Much regret, would many buyers have. :Smile_veryhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,545
[WOLF3]
Members
28,797 posts
25,049 battles
1 minute ago, SkaerKrow said:

Considering that it has better AP angles than all of those ships, and a hydroaccoustic search consumable that enables it to play a bit more aggressively against DDs and other torpedo slingers, I think that the term that you’re looking for is “different from,” not “worse.”

Have fun on the Island of Unwanted Toys. 

It hasn't panned out for even passable performance for a Tier VII Battleship.  DOY is actually one of the worst performance Battleships, Premium or otherwise, in Tier VII.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,704
[SIM]
Members
5,587 posts
9,012 battles
Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It hasn't panned out for even passable performance for a Tier VII Battleship.  DOY is actually one of the worst performance Battleships, Premium or otherwise, in Tier VII.

“Passable” is not a quantifiable metric. She’s within a small margin of difference for every statistic of the vaunted Scharnhorst, except for damage, where she leads that ship. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×