Santa Crates ̶r̶i̶g̶g̶e̶d̶ bug

[DonCastro46]

I wish this santa crate thing is only a code bug. But don't look like one.

Neither the way this become such a bad press for WG,  so i honest and respectful recommend WG guys apologise and start to plan how compensate players.

Definitely most players know that the chances of receiving a rare tier 9 ship are much less than receiving a tier 5 or 6. And this is ok.
But the short list system its different.

I know WG was honest thinking the short list just change how the ships are randomised, but in the end the player will have a opportunity to get a ship from the list.
But this is absolute no truth, and there comes a pratical exemple:
- If a new player, with no premium ship, buy 1 santa crate. What is the chance of he get most of the ships on the list? The answer is 0%

And this make the product info wrong:

You can't find every ship from the list from a gift container. And not explaining how the system works, made it a problem.

This is feedback from a player who loves the game and wishes the best for the community and WG staff. I hope that this message can be received in a positive way.

Ps.:English it's a 2nd language for me.

[DJC_499]

23 minutes ago, DonCastro46 said:

Neither the way this become such a bad press for WG,  so i honest and respectful recommend WG guys apologise and start to plan how compensate players.

First, to be clear, I agree with your sentiment here...

The issue as I see it is that WG, being WG, will stonewall immediately and forcefully and only until seriously worried about an adverse loss of players and future purchases (and maybe possible legal action of some sort????) will they offer "something". The problem is I am unsure what that "something" might be. Clearly, it will never ever be an actual refund of real-life currency. I suppose there could be some in-game currency-based "refund" involving doubloons or game products to some level of the original purchase value. I wonder if they might consider giving "new" Super Containers (SC) for any ship that was awarded from the apparent short-list (for example, if you got a Makarov, or Duca D'Aosta, etc.) then you would get an additional SC that really indeed offered an equally honest probability of getting any of the ships on the published list. What would be done with the original shortlist ship would be a question, but I would say, just let the players keep it and try to move on with as limited damage as possible.

This might get even more interesting.... 

[paradat]

3 hours ago, DonCastro46 said:

If a new player, with no premium ship, buy 1 santa crate. What is the chance of he get most of the ships on the list? The answer is 0%

This is not true. The short list is a separate and more probable loot table it is not the same loot table. So just using approximates lets say the short list table is a 10% chance and the rest of the ships are in a loot table with 5% (It is probably closer to 3% and 1% I do not remember). So any way if you have all of the ships on the short list you are then basically upping your chance of getting on the main ship loot table via the super container mechanic. Your very first prem ship could roll as a Missouri but that is going to be very rare.

OK so watched a few hundred crate openings. You do need to have at lease 1 ship from the short list before you have a chance to move to the main list.

Welcome to loot crates!

[Darmokattenagra]

4 minutes ago, paradat said:

This is not true. The short list is a separate and more probable loot table it is not the same loot table. So just using approximates lets say the short list table is a 10% chance and the rest of the ships are in a loot table with 5% (It is probably closer to 3% and 1% I do not remember). So any way if you have all of the ships on the short list you are then basically upping your chance of getting on the main ship loot table via the super container mechanic. Your very first prem ship could roll as a Missouri but that is going to be very rare.

Welcome to loot crates!

Like the teacher says. Show your work

 Where did you get info to come to this conclusion?

[paradat]

7 minutes ago, Darmokattenagra said:

Like the teacher says. Show your work

 Where did you get info to come to this conclusion?

[Crowdsourced] Santa Crate Contents Breakdown - Google Drive

The above was some of the work from 1k plus crates last year. There was some excellent stuff on reddit if I remember correctly from previous years. Have not looked lately. 

WG had discussed this in the past as well but I do not feel like digging it up at the moment if I get bored I will do it. The mechanic is pretty much unchanged but the percentage chances per category may vary from year to year but the two loot table for ships mechanics is the same.

Cheers.

Funny I am thinking about buying a bunch of them earlyer this year since I really could use the flags. Remember your chance to get loot that is a good absolute value is 100%. The relative value "I want a ship" is what ticks people who do not understand what they are buying. Most of the results are at worse about a 50% off sale and yeah if you get lucky it is way better than that. 

 

[Darmokattenagra]

1 minute ago, paradat said:

[Crowdsourced] Santa Crate Contents Breakdown - Google Drive

This is old data. Not from this year. And I dont see how you can come to your conclusion based on this data. There is no official statement regarding that year or possible changes for this year. 

[SoothingWhaleSongEU]

8 minutes ago, paradat said:

[Crowdsourced] Santa Crate Contents Breakdown - Google Drive

This aggerate data doesn't take into account the details of how the short list works for individuals when you already have at least one ship from it.

The inferred shortlist mechanics doesn't require you to own/get all the ships on the short list before you get any others. 

I don't believe we have literally seen *anyone* confirm who *started* with no ships from the short lists get a ship one of the others first.
And for those who already own at least one then the rest of the short list are very commonly occurring.

[paradat]

1 minute ago, Darmokattenagra said:

This is old data. Not from this year. And I dont see how you can come to your conclusion based on this data. There is no official statement regarding that year or possible changes for this year. 

It is old data 2019. I have no idea what the percentages this year, I predict based on what I am seeing dropped that they are about the same and maybe exactly the same are we can tell from reports on what people have been getting the the mechanic has not changed.

If you are looking for WG to tell you the category chances they have said in the past that they will not do it. 

It is a loot box. There it is a rigged game for the house. Having said that the worse roll on the table is something like a 50% off sale in absolute value. There are no empty crates.

So manage your expectations and make your purchase decisions wisely. 

You pays your monies and you takes your chances.

Cheers.

[paradat]

6 minutes ago, SoothingWhaleSongEU said:

This aggerate data doesn't take into account the details of how the short list works for individuals when you already have at least one ship from it.

You can expect it to work just like you think it would work.  You have and x percent chance to roll the short list table. If you have 1 out of 4 of the ships you have 75% chance of getting a short list ship and a 25% chance of getting a super container that will now roll on the main ship table. 

The main thing to remember is the absolute value of the roll is a good deal and that this is a crappy way to get a ship but if you do then yeah very very cheap price. 

These basic mechanics have not altered year after year yet. I have seen no result yet that would lead me to believe that WG has changed it and I have seen results for this year that fit exactly with what you would expect based on previous years. The chances may be different (We will figure it out lol) but the mechanic is the same.

Cheers.

[DonCastro46]

29 minutes ago, DJC_499 said:

First, to be clear, I agree with your sentiment here...

The issue as I see it is that WG, being WG, will stonewall immediately and forcefully and only until seriously worried about an adverse loss of players and future purchases (and maybe possible legal action of some sort????) will they offer "something". The problem is I am unsure what that "something" might be. Clearly, it will never ever be an actual refund of real-life currency. I suppose there could be some in-game currency-based "refund" involving doubloons or game products to some level of the original purchase value. I wonder if they might consider giving "new" Super Containers (SC) for any ship that was awarded from the apparent short-list (for example, if you got a Makarov, or Duca D'Aosta, etc.) then you would get an additional SC that really indeed offered an equally honest probability of getting any of the ships on the published list. What would be done with the original shortlist ship would be a question, but I would say, just let the players keep it and try to move on with as limited damage as possible.

This might get even more interesting.... 

I think offering players who received ships from the short list the option of having the ship removed, and receiving a random ship container in place, would be the most direct way possible to solve. Some people will get good ships, other wrost.
Im not sure how easy is to implament, so maybe they come with another solution.

About money refund, i think they can do refund if you regrat and not spent or play multiple battles with game itens. Not sure about crates,  but overall they have reasonable policys compared to other companies.
 

[DonCastro46]

8 minutes ago, paradat said:

You can expect it to work just like you think it would work.  You have and x percent chance to roll the short list table. If you have 1 out of 4 of the ships you have 75% chance of getting a short list ship and a 25% chance of getting a super container that will now roll on the main ship table. 

The main thing to remember is the absolute value of the roll is a good deal and that this is a crappy way to get a ship but if you do then yeah very very cheap price. 

These basic mechanics have not altered year after year yet. I have seen no result yet that would lead me to believe that WG has changed it and I have seen results for this year that fit exactly with what you would expect based on previous years. The chances may be different (We will figure it out lol) but the mechanic is the same.

Cheers.

But if you have none, you have 0% chance to get 100 ships from the list. This make the product info wrong for every player.
The system with the short list would not be a problem if they were transparent about it before people bought.
Some people would even buy the ships on the short list before buying the containers.

[STINKWEED_]

[paradat]

2 minutes ago, DonCastro46 said:

But if you have none, you have 0% chance to get 100 ships from the list. This make the product info wrong for every player.
The system with the short list would not be a problem if they were transparent about it before people bought.
Some people would even buy the ships on the short list before buying the containers.

That may be true. It is possible that the short list is a must have 1 situation. I do not think it is true but it might be I know that what you are saying is what was the majority opinion of people. I seem to remember seeing you tube video crate openings of players getting a ship result that included a ship from the big list directly from the Santa crate and not from a super container, that would suggest that they are on a separate loot table (this is really the only open question). 

So if you have gotten a ship that is not from the blow list and you got it from the crate and not from a super container let us know. It is probably all ready out there. You can expect a bunch of CC to do videos on crate opening. I am itching to get to playing rather than foruming so I may come back to this later.

Gift Shortlist (WIP)

• Tier 6 British cruiser London

• Tier 6 French cruiser De Grasse (?)

• Tier 5 European battleship Viribus Unitis

Big Gift Shortlist

• Tier 6 Soviet cruiser Makarov (common)

• Tier 7 US battleship California

• Tier 8 European destroyer Orkan

Mega Shortlist

• Tier 6 Italian cruiser Duca D'aosta (common)

• Tier 7 Japanese destroyer Yuudachi (common)

• Tier 8 British battleship Vanguard

• Tier 8 Soviet cruiser Ochakov

[GrandAdmiral_2016]

19 minutes ago, paradat said:

That may be true. It is possible that the short list is a must have 1 situation. I do not think it is true but it might be I know that what you are saying is what was the majority opinion of people. I seem to remember seeing you tube video crate openings of players getting a ship result that included a ship from the big list directly from the Santa crate and not from a super container, that would suggest that they are on a separate loot table (this is really the only open question). 

So if you have gotten a ship that is not from the blow list and you got it from the crate and not from a super container let us know. It is probably all ready out there. You can expect a bunch of CC to do videos on crate opening. I am itching to get to playing rather than foruming so I may come back to this later.

Gift Shortlist (WIP)

• Tier 6 British cruiser London

• Tier 6 French cruiser De Grasse (?)

• Tier 5 European battleship Viribus Unitis

Big Gift Shortlist

• Tier 6 Soviet cruiser Makarov (common)

• Tier 7 US battleship California

• Tier 8 European destroyer Orkan

Mega Shortlist

• Tier 6 Italian cruiser Duca D'aosta (common)

• Tier 7 Japanese destroyer Yuudachi (common)

• Tier 8 British battleship Vanguard

• Tier 8 Soviet cruiser Ochakov

So I got Okachov and Yudachi in a single 8-crate purchase and already own Duca d'Aosta and Vanguard. In the gift shortlist I have London (a freebee) and De Grasse (an impluse purchase when she came out but a decent ship). That leaves me California, Orkan and Viribus Unitis as my potential booby prizes?  Not gonna press my luck any further. Whatever drops for free I'll take and the Devil can take the hindmost. Waiting for the Boxing Day Sale as normally a year's Premium time can be had at a 40% or 50% discount. Worth the investment if you play a lot.

[paradat]

6 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

So I got Okachov and Yudachi in a single 8-crate purchase and already own Duca d'Aosta and Vanguard. In the gift shortlist I have London (a freebee) and De Grasse (an impluse purchase when she came out but a decent ship). That leaves me California, Orkan and Viribus Unitis as my potential booby prizes?  Not gonna press my luck any further. Whatever drops for free I'll take and the Devil can take the hindmost. Waiting for the Boxing Day Sale as normally a year's Premium time can be had at a 40% or 50% discount. Worth the investment if you play a lot.

Yeah that sounds about right. For me I will very likely get Orkan and Okachov (I have all the rest) if I were to buy both crate types. I would be happy with that two more tier 8's. Will see I like to buy my Santa crates at the end of the event (for goodness sakes people open all the free ones first!) 

This years best sale again looks like it will be dockyard. Depending on the type of player you are. If you get lots or RB and Steel normally then the crates may be the best for the flags coal and prem time. I need to see if I will need the steel from the dockyard this year or not.

[Intricate_Process]

How many people would have bought those crates knowing they had zero chance to get a rare ship, until they got all the worthless ones?  I really can't believe a company would stoop this low.

Just ignore the people that cannot accept the truth.

[paradat]

Just now, Intricate_Process said:

How many people would have bought those crates knowing they had zero chance to get a rare ship, until they got all the worthless ones?  I really can't believe a company would stoop this low.

Just ignore the people that cannot accept the truth.

We are nor sure about the "zero chance" yet

[DonCastro46]

Just now, paradat said:

We are nor sure about the "zero chance" yet

Im absolute sure for the "zero chance" thing. If you take a look in the Reddit topic, dozens (almost 100 maybe) of people and videos confirm the short list.  The feel people who sayed get different ship from creates should get it from "superconteiner" and doesn't realised.

BTW crates content was pick once the crates arrive the account, so its posible buy 20 crates without own any short list ship, open a Musashi and after that a Makarov.

 

[AXELGREASE]

1 hour ago, paradat said:

This is not true. The short list is a separate and more probable loot table it is not the same loot table. So just using approximates lets say the short list table is a 10% chance and the rest of the ships are in a loot table with 5% (It is probably closer to 3% and 1% I do not remember). So any way if you have all of the ships on the short list you are then basically upping your chance of getting on the main ship loot table via the super container mechanic. Your very first prem ship could roll as a Missouri but that is going to be very rare.

Welcome to loot crates!

#1) loot crates are a gamble!  Fact! A game of chance where one could get anything and will suffer a loss of cash to take the risk.

#2) Any person purchasing said loot crates and then complaining that they did not get what they want should refer back to #1

#3) Anyone who believes that this loot crate fiasco will not happen to them,  I think of the proverb about a fool and their money!

[Col_Nasty]

11 minutes ago, paradat said:

We are nor sure about the "zero chance" yet

Yes we are.  I do not have all of them and I got 2 really good ships and one RARE ( Kamikaze ) out of my 7 ships.

So no, the people saying you have Zero chance are just parroting bad information.

[paradat]

10 minutes ago, DonCastro46 said:

Im absolute sure for the "zero chance" thing. If you take a look in the Reddit topic, dozens (almost 100 maybe) of people and videos confirm the short list.  The feel people who sayed get different ship from creates should get it from "superconteiner" and doesn't realised.

BTW crates content was pick once the crates arrive the account, so its posible buy 20 crates without own any short list ship, open a Musashi and after that a Makarov.

 

Yeah that may end up being the case. My memory may not be correct. Only need one example to find out. Also yes loot table happens on purchase, so I will rephrase,  get and open all of your free crates before you buy any of them.

[paradat]

7 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Yes we are.  I do not have all of them and I got 2 really good ships and one RARE ( Kamikaze ) out of my 7 ships.

So no, the people saying you have Zero chance are just parroting bad information.

Did you get them from the Santa crate directly or from a super container?

[Sxar12]

40 minutes ago, paradat said:

Mega Shortlist

• Tier 6 Italian cruiser Duca D'aosta (common)

• Tier 7 Japanese destroyer Yuudachi (common)

• Tier 8 British battleship Vanguard

• Tier 8 Soviet cruiser Ochakov

 

Interesting, how does the short list work?  I had all but 17 ships on the list, I only buy Mega Crates and the Ochakov was the sixth ship I received.  It was the only one that came out of the Mega Santa crate and the rest were super containers.

RNG was my friend this year as I received all 17 ships in three Mega Crate 20-packs (4 ships, 6 ships and 7 ships).

[DonCastro46]

3 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Yes we are.  I do not have all of them and I got 2 really good ships and one RARE ( Kamikaze ) out of my 7 ships.

So no, the people saying you have Zero chance are just parroting bad information.

But you have some of than, and the diferent ships you get from a "super container" right?

Its just confirmed the short list.

WG says: You can get a ship from the Santa Crate, and if you already have that ship in your port you get a Super Conteiner with other ship from the list.
Since all ships come directly from a Santa Crates was from the short list,  and only Super Conteiners droped other ships. Yeah, its confirmed.

[Col_Nasty]

1 minute ago, paradat said:

Did you get them from the Santa crate directly or from a super container?

Some of both , but the Kamikaze was a Santa Crate.