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Review of U.S. Battleship Branch

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Kansas, Minnesota, and Vermont: everything you need to know in order to win!


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I wish the best of luck to the players who will try to have decent games with these ships, I honestly do.

I intend to stay away from them until WG buffs them in a way that will make them more interesting to play, maybe something along the lines of increasing the speed of reload or the speed in general.

And by the way, introducing these slow ships in a CV heavy meta, and with plans to introduce submarines makes little to no sense in my opinion.

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Slow.

that’s everything you need to know. Slow speed, slow reload, slow need to grind this line.

Edited by monpetitloup
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Hmmm...

Deal with these target barges, or spam my UU ships for the rest of the month...

Seems like an easy choice.

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Once i get the vermont i wont play them outside snowflake events...seriously the feedback given on these things has been utterly ignored.

 

The only ship ill play is the Florida.

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9 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

Once i get the vermont i wont play them outside snowflake events

Right there with you......It is tragic how great these ships could have been with just a touch more speed (say 25.1 [Tillman level]) and say 33 or so second reload...

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Boring ship line, detrimental to your team in most occasions.

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2 hours ago, MasterMarinerRa said:

I wish the best of luck to the players who will try to have decent games with these ships, I honestly do.

I intend to stay away from them until WG buffs them in a way that will make them more interesting to play, maybe something along the lines of increasing the speed of reload or the speed in general.

And by the way, introducing these slow ships in a CV heavy meta, and with plans to introduce submarines makes little to no sense in my opinion.

reload speed is fine. Ship speed is fine. Its guns have reach and are crazy accurate... its what Yamato should've been like.

This ship line should've been the one US BB line with great secondaries. Its a slow ship with slow reload..its literally easy kill for any close range ship like cruiser or DD.

They should give it 8km base secondaries (it dont have many of them).

They could also give it BB radar as an alternative to AA.

 

Also, the HE vulnerability is a bit overboard. It literally is soloe'd by a cruiser HE spamming it before it reloads. Its quite shocking.

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2 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Kansas, Minnesota, and Vermont: everything you need to know in order to win!

No offense, but the only way to win with this line -- particularly Kansas -- is not to play it. I had to laugh out loud when the article suggested the best strategy was shooting over 15km with Kansas' 1.5 (now 1.6, ooh) sigma and 12-second lead times. You want a crazy sniper battleship that's good over 15km, get a Slava. You want to get left behind (or run over) and get a fresh beer between salvos, play the faux-Tillmans.

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does that mean i can finally sell kanasa today and get that pile of crap out of my port  woooopeeeee :cap_horn::cap_like::Smile_great:

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5 minutes ago, Gaelic_knight said:

does that mean i can finally sell kanasa today and get that pile of crap out of my port  woooopeeeee :cap_horn::cap_like::Smile_great:

well, hold onto it for at least the steel snowflake event.....

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Not going to lie, I actually had fun in Minnesota before today's release, but having upgraded to Vermont now? Just wow, I was not expecting a ship this sluggish after Minnesota. Everything just felt like it needed fifteen cans of WD40. In today's HE heavy meta, there is really no chance of survival in that ship since its slow speed and low maneverability make it hard to dodge shells which you know will start fires. As for her guns, for supposedly being the same as those found on Georgia, I just find it incredibly sad. Having both ships, I find Georgia's gun handling(turret rotation, reload, ect.) far superior. At least can we get a reduction in reload times to 30 seconds? At the current moment, I'm finding this line to be a waste of experience used to research and retrain my commanders.

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51 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Kansas, Minnesota, and Vermont: everything you need to know in order to win!


Read it on the portal

tenor.gif

"If possible, you should avoid approaching the enemy. VIII Kansas and IX Minnesota lack good armor, and furthermore, all the new ships have long main battery reloading times. However, if you can't avoid a close quarters engagement, your advantage will be the weighty salvo of your numerous guns. The ships' decent anti-torpedo protection will reduce the damage they take from torpedoes."

Did whoever write this never play this game? The slowest BB in this game that isn't Kansas in the MM spread that I know of is QE at 23.5 knots. Which will GAIN on Kansas at 1km/45 seconds roughly. So even when trying to run away, from a ship with a miniscule advantage in speed, if there are 10 minutes in the match, and it's a straight chase - if the QE starts within 13.33 km it can RAM the Kansas before the match ends. Short of completely destroying the enemy propulsion - which you guys understandably disallow - it's basically IMPOSSIBLE to keep anyone at range. Telling players to 'stay at range and avoid close fighting' with this is like me giving you a battery powered fan and saying 'keep these clouds away'. This is also why, with Kansas in particular if you were going to insist on 32 mm of armour - that high RoF 152 mm guns with IFHE just chunk HP out of, that you would need to have a better version of DCP and repair party in terms of cool down because you will NEVER out run an opponent. You will CONSTANTLY be hammered by ships, many of whom are going to sling HE, and start fires, that burn away usually 13-18% of HP - unless you use the boring, generic, Mouse has made a meme of it build that you go on to suggest to get it down to 10% and only a max of 3 fires, which is still 30% of your HP gone and then some from hits potentially or even probably in 30-60 seconds. And what's the cool down on repair party? Oh, right 80. So unless you can find a rock they can't shoot over, and get behind it, and your team somehow keep them from getting a shot on you, it'll take between use time and CD 324 seconds to make up that damage. My freaking Bayern can run the damn things down, and in the case of Kansas lol pen the armour with secondary guns. Hel, and German ship with 15 cm secondary guns, or 12.8 cm guns screwing around with IFHE - can autopen Minnesota, and the sides of Vermont and news flash - most/all those ships are about 30% faster than them so they will run them down in a hurry, and Vermont is the only one that I think has any shot at overmatching them when angled. Seriously - designs that may as well been those made by a madman, some of which could at least in game if not reality slug it out with or smack around Yamato and you give us the 2 that aren't the tier 10, and are slow as hell, worse belt armour than Scharn/Gnei, KGV/DoY, and even MONARCH, a ship that out runs it by more than 3 knots WITHOUT it's engine upgrade. And so far, while I can't rule out my own need to adjust aim to a new ship - I've found the accuracy at range wanting if that's where the ship is supposed to be. You can't design a ship to me weak at short range, with no ability to keep targets at range, and trouble hitting targets at range. 12 guns where accuracy on Kansas at least seems dubious at best over 10 km, because you gave it 12 guns and added reload to it as well, making it frankly not great at range. Meanwhile everything can close in where yeah, that heavy broadside can deal damage - but has such poor protection and long reload it straight up loses due to DPS vs other BB's - that can all run it down anyway. Cripes Musashi and Yamato have better armour, faster RoF AND heavier guns, and at minimum pretty sure Musashi has better secondary range and of right - still faster to run it down. 

If the Yamato type design is 'unstoppable force' - than this needs to be 'immovable object' - which hey, your there on speed already. And I can live with bad long range accuracy and reload times IF:

  • Armour is improved and/or DCP and Repair party consumables are improved (cooldown, maybe even something between normal and UK 'Zombie' type for how much is repaired) - Kansas should have the same level of IFHE immunity at minimum of Minnesota. All need heavier belts for close range fighting. If not than DCP and Repair party need to change then to make up for the damage they take. 
  • Secondary range improved
  • Secondary RoF improved - main battery has a 40 second reload, and you gave the 5/38's that slow a reload?
  • Secondary accuracy improved - be nice if they could actually hit something. 
  • Secondary pen improved to 1/4 or flat 32. 

These things, at minimum, should basically be Massachusetts's bigger, tankier,  lumbering brothers/cousins. Stay at range where the guns aren't as accurate, but hey, neither are yours, or come in close where sure, the main battery lacks DPS - but it has secondary's that are death by 1000 cuts and heavy armour that may eat regular pens like German BB's but doesn't citadel easy and can take those hits and the fire that's raining. Especially seeing as your entire team is going to out run you, and your going to end up fighting alone. I hate to even toss the idea out there but I almost want to see a radar option to take over the DEF AA (which never should have been added in the first place) for when the damn DD's are just running circles around you where you can't see them and can't even try to get to a range to spot it yourself. 

Then again, we told you people well in advanced that these needed to either be A: absolute damage soaking tanks to make up for their speed - like, to pull from history I'm talking Bismarck's last stand taking more than 400 hits from Battleships and Heavy cruisers kind of durable (though a reasonable in game equivalent) that if and when they get in range the secondary guns can do work, or B: the guns need to be high accuracy and a better RoF than this to make up for weaker armour and slow speed - making it a matter of 'do you really want to draw the ships attentions' and if you have it - take advantage of the slow speed and weak armour and try to rush in close to win the DPS fight at close range where it's just not going to be as good due to still RoF and turret rotation along with speed. It being no secret I prefer option A. 

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17 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

tenor.gif

"If possible, you should avoid approaching the enemy. VIII Kansas and IX Minnesota lack good armor, and furthermore, all the new ships have long main battery reloading times. However, if you can't avoid a close quarters engagement, your advantage will be the weighty salvo of your numerous guns. The ships' decent anti-torpedo protection will reduce the damage they take from torpedoes."

Did whoever write this never play this game? The slowest BB in this game that isn't Kansas in the MM spread that I know of is QE at 23.5 knots. Which will GAIN on Kansas at 1km/45 seconds roughly. So even when trying to run away, from a ship with a miniscule advantage in speed, if there are 10 minutes in the match, and it's a straight chase - if the QE starts within 13.33 km it can RAM the Kansas before the match ends. Short of completely destroying the enemy propulsion - which you guys understandably disallow - it's basically IMPOSSIBLE to keep anyone at range. Telling players to 'stay at range and avoid close fighting' with this is like me giving you a battery powered fan and saying 'keep these clouds away'. This is also why, with Kansas in particular if you were going to insist on 32 mm of armour - that high RoF 152 mm guns with IFHE just chunk HP out of, that you would need to have a better version of DCP and repair party in terms of cool down because you will NEVER out run an opponent. You will CONSTANTLY be hammered by ships, many of whom are going to sling HE, and start fires, that burn away usually 13-18% of HP - unless you use the boring, generic, Mouse has made a meme of it build that you go on to suggest to get it down to 10% and only a max of 3 fires, which is still 30% of your HP gone and then some from hits potentially or even probably in 30-60 seconds. And what's the cool down on repair party? Oh, right 80. So unless you can find a rock they can't shoot over, and get behind it, and your team somehow keep them from getting a shot on you, it'll take between use time and CD 324 seconds to make up that damage. My freaking Bayern can run the damn things down, and in the case of Kansas lol pen the armour with secondary guns. Hel, and German ship with 15 cm secondary guns, or 12.8 cm guns screwing around with IFHE - can autopen Minnesota, and the sides of Vermont and news flash - most/all those ships are about 30% faster than them so they will run them down in a hurry, and Vermont is the only one that I think has any shot at overmatching them when angled. Seriously - designs that may as well been those made by a madman, some of which could at least in game if not reality slug it out with or smack around Yamato and you give us the 2 that aren't the tier 10, and are slow as hell, worse belt armour than Scharn/Gnei, KGV/DoY, and even MONARCH, a ship that out runs it by more than 3 knots WITHOUT it's engine upgrade. And so far, while I can't rule out my own need to adjust aim to a new ship - I've found the accuracy at range wanting if that's where the ship is supposed to be. You can't design a ship to me weak at short range, with no ability to keep targets at range, and trouble hitting targets at range. 12 guns where accuracy on Kansas at least seems dubious at best over 10 km, because you gave it 12 guns and added reload to it as well, making it frankly not great at range. Meanwhile everything can close in where yeah, that heavy broadside can deal damage - but has such poor protection and long reload it straight up loses due to DPS vs other BB's - that can all run it down anyway. Cripes Musashi and Yamato have better armour, faster RoF AND heavier guns, and at minimum pretty sure Musashi has better secondary range and of right - still faster to run it down. 

If the Yamato type design is 'unstoppable force' - than this needs to be 'immovable object' - which hey, your there on speed already. And I can live with bad long range accuracy and reload times IF:

  • Armour is improved and/or DCP and Repair party consumables are improved (cooldown, maybe even something between normal and UK 'Zombie' type for how much is repaired) - Kansas should have the same level of IFHE immunity at minimum of Minnesota. All need heavier belts for close range fighting. If not than DCP and Repair party need to change then to make up for the damage they take. 
  • Secondary range improved
  • Secondary RoF improved - main battery has a 40 second reload, and you gave the 5/38's that slow a reload?
  • Secondary accuracy improved - be nice if they could actually hit something. 
  • Secondary pen improved to 1/4 or flat 32. 

These things, at minimum, should basically be Massachusetts's bigger, tankier,  lumbering brothers/cousins. Stay at range where the guns aren't as accurate, but hey, neither are yours, or come in close where sure, the main battery lacks DPS - but it has secondary's that are death by 1000 cuts and heavy armour that may eat regular pens like German BB's but doesn't citadel easy and can take those hits and the fire that's raining. Especially seeing as your entire team is going to out run you, and your going to end up fighting alone. I hate to even toss the idea out there but I almost want to see a radar option to take over the DEF AA (which never should have been added in the first place) for when the damn DD's are just running circles around you where you can't see them and can't even try to get to a range to spot it yourself. 

Then again, we told you people well in advanced that these needed to either be A: absolute damage soaking tanks to make up for their speed - like, to pull from history I'm talking Bismarck's last stand taking more than 400 hits from Battleships and Heavy cruisers kind of durable (though a reasonable in game equivalent) that if and when they get in range the secondary guns can do work, or B: the guns need to be high accuracy and a better RoF than this to make up for weaker armour and slow speed - making it a matter of 'do you really want to draw the ships attentions' and if you have it - take advantage of the slow speed and weak armour and try to rush in close to win the DPS fight at close range where it's just not going to be as good due to still RoF and turret rotation along with speed. It being no secret I prefer option A. 

This. This explains perfectly. Give us an unmovvable object please.

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1 hour ago, ZaCLoNe said:

well, hold onto it for at least the steel snowflake event.....

sold for 9.5mil credits  . ill take it  . 1 less pile of scrap in my port 

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Not too bad the ship. 

Problem is, that people play for fun. 

The ship is boring as hell. 

Slow slow, slow.

Plus you can shoot a salvo, ang go get coffee while reloading...   (to the nearest coffee shop that is)

Maybe suitable for the kind of player that parks near A1 and snipes... in a BB. Or for the "reverse warriors" 

surprisingly, i´m doing good numbers on such trash.      :cap_yes:

 

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6 hours ago, sonoasailor said:

she cant handle it captain you will tear her to bits if she goes any faster . im an engineer not a miracle worker 

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A dumpster fire all around, Too slow, Too easy to burn. not even going to bother with this line at all. if I wanted to drive a slow as heck, fat box of kindling i will just fail platoon into high tiers with a Wyoming... it would be as much fun as playing these things. 

 

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The new US battleships are very disappointing to me for more than one reason. The US Battleship line split is just that, a split instead of a 2nd tech tree branch. This leaves out at least 3-4 real ships that could've been in the branch, but they aren't. Despite there being many US BB designs to pull from for a line, both real steel and proposed (I remember people mentioning back in Alpha/Beta there was enough US BBs for 3 full lines, I guess that fact has been dropped and/or ignored), the tier VIII Kansas and the tier IX Minnesota are both based off the same design, the 1920s South Dakota class, which for some reason neither use the name South Dakota despite the name not existing in game yet. Among the other historical inaccuracies for the Tier VIII and IX, the Tier X Vermont which is somewhat based off Tillman I is kit-bashed past the point of making any reasonable sense. The tier VII Florida has French style quads (which are really just two doubles in the same turret) instead of KGV style 4-gun turrets without any precedent for the US to use the French style quads. This game also once again misses the opportunity to give US ships a Great White Fleet premium camo. This line is is almost if not more poorly handled than the RN CAs were. Overall with how half baked this line split is I'd honestly rather wait another year to get a real and well done 2nd US BB line.

In respect to the video, I find it weird that the video talks about Senator Tillman, and Maximum battleships so much when only Vermont is a kit-bashed "inspired by" version of Tillman I, whereas Kansas and Minnesota are both based off the South Dakota 1920s with the wrong guns.

on a more light hearted and funny note, at 0:13 the narrator says "US Senator Benjin Tillman" instead of Benjamin Tillman.

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*Ahem*
Gentlemen.  Submarines are closer than we think.

Let that sink in with the play style of this new line.  Fun?  No.  Vulnerable to SS?  No.

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