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Retnav54

Change In Manual Secondary Skill

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Looking at the General Section of the forum, it's pretty obvious everyone and their dog has heard about the Captain Skill Rework, and most of the particulars. I'll just say I agree with Admiral Thunder's overall assessment of it.

As you might have gathered by the title, I want to address one skill in particular, that someone who has a fondness for secondary build BB's (and using them in co-op) took particular note of - Manual Secondarys.

If you haven't heard as of yet, Manual Secondarys will change - instead of a 15% dispersion buff for Tier 6 and below, and a 60% dispersion buff for Tier 7 and up - it will be a flat 35% dispersion buff regardless of tier.

While I'm quite happy to see what, IMO, is a long overdue buff to many of my favorite lower tier BB's ( and what a buff, 15% to 35% is a 130% increase), I was also quite concerned about the effect on high tier secondary BB's like the Mass and Georgia, also favorites of mine - because going from 60% down to 35% is a 42% nerf (and that's quite a nerf).

The question of course is, just what effect would this have on the higher tier ships - would they still be effective in all game modes, good only in co-op, or would putting a full-on secondary build on them now be a waste of time?

So, like I did back in January, when I made the thread comparing the Graf Zep's secondarys, I took to the training room to do some testing, and used what is arguably the gold standard for secondary BB's - the Massachusetts.

To keep it short, I'll skip to the results - without Man Sec and no dispersion buff, Mass averaged 28% accuracy - with Man Sec and the 60% dispersion buff, Mass averaged 53% accuracy. So the question is, what will Mass be capable of with only a 35% buff?

I used some guesstimate math - 28% to 53% is a 25 point spread. And a 35% buff is 58% of a 60% buff. So I multiplied the 25 point spread by 0.58, and came up with 14 and change, which I just called 14 to keep it simple.

My logic being, if a 60% buff gave a 25 point improvement, then a 35% buff should give a 14 point improvement - therefore, a 35% Man Sec buff should improve the accuracy from 28% to 42%.

So by my rough guesstimate, after the skill rework, Mass will go from having 53% secondary accuracy, to dropping down to 42% accuracy. Yeah, that's painful, but if my figuring is right, Mass will still be quite effective with a secondary build - 42% accuracy is still a hell of a lot better than nearly all other high tier BB's have even now with the current 60% buff. And by extension, Georgia (and perhaps Ohio) will still have similar levels of secondary accuracy.

Disclaimer - I'm by no means a mathematician or an expert in this game's mechanics, so feel free to poke holes in my guesstimates if I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

The big high tier losers here may well be the German BB's. Back in January, I tested the Tirpitz with Man Sec, and it achieved 35% accuracy, with the current 60% buff. When that buff drops down to 35%..... well..... oof.... I'd have to test Tirpitz without Man Sec to see just how bad it would end up being.

On the flip side, there are some Tier 6 and lower BB's that could end up being big winners here, as far as a secondary build. I tested my Ark Beta with the same build and same captain as on the Mass, with Man Sec, Even with just the current 15% buff, it was hitting 37% to 40% secondary accuracy. I have to admit, I had an evil grin on my face, contemplating what it could do, if that buff goes from 15% to 35%. And wondering what other old favorites like Warspite and Bayern might be capable of. I saw in the Oklahoma thread, one poster saying that as is, the secondarys were only 25% accurate - with that 35% buff, even Oklahoma might become a contender.

 

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Take into account that the 2nds on the other side of the ship will be firing at the closest target on that side also...not w/any dispersion buff but they will fire whereas they do not presently w/the skill.

Also they will all fire even if no ship is targeted which now they stay dormant until you lock on a single target...which is all they have ever attacked w/the skill...1 single target...& only if you remember to use them.

The new skill (like now w/out the skill) can allow for advanced warning when they start firing on newly detected ships if no others were in range.

Early detection warnings when in binocular mode can be very convenient.

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2 hours ago, Retnav54 said:

secondaries

 

Massachusetts

60% reduction

shot-19_08.20_12_39.16-0005.jpg.6514ee61

No reduction

shot-19_08.20_12_04.42-0904.thumb.jpg.99

35% should still get most shells on target at 10 km, at least with a cruiser or BB. It's going to put a damper on DD kills though.

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2 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

It's going to put a damper on DD kills though.

Exactly!

I believe that this is WG intent to provide a buff to DDs and to the forthcoming subs.

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19 minutes ago, DJC_499 said:

I believe that this is WG intent to provide a buff to DDs and to the forthcoming subs.

edBQBeJ.gif

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The ability to fire from both sides might help Co-op.  But if your secondaries are firing off both sides in randoms, you're pretty much just about to die anyway.  

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2 hours ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

The ability to fire from both sides might help Co-op.  But if your secondaries are firing off both sides in randoms, you're pretty much just about to die anyway.  

Once, just once, I sailed through a narrow straight into a cap with my ARP Takao, thinking there was only a DD there. My secondaries immediately started going off and, to my great consternation, I saw a Yamato to my right and a Conqueror to my Left. I let lose all the torpedoes I had from both sides... Double Strike. I really wish I'd known how to make videos back then so I could have captured that. 

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As everything I have with a secondary spec is used in co-op, this change to the skill is tempting (as long as I can eventually afford it in terms of skill points) as I currently don't run manual secondaries, mostly because I like them opening up automatically and on both sides (FAR more common in co-op for this to happen as you already know), so I certainly don't mind at all this new change, but I do 100% get why some people don't like this change.

I can see this skill change not being too bad for the US secondary ships because they have better accuracy to begin with, but it not being good for german ships, and I think Lert and DJC have it right that this change will help out DDs and (eventually) subs.

It will also be nice to consider this new skill because I do have a few lower than tier 7 ships are secondary spec (Bayern, and two new ones: Oklahoma, Mikasa) and this skill change is an improvement for anything tier 6 or lower, the question becomes what sacrifices need to be made with regards to other skills.

One note: it sure looks like wargaming is moving forward with the skill rework pretty much as is described now, come heck or high water, so we need to adapt accordingly if we want to keep playing.

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6 hours ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

The ability to fire from both sides might help Co-op.  But if your secondaries are firing off both sides in randoms, you're pretty much just about to die anyway.  

In some instances yes but when your 2nds have 10k+ range not necessarily...especially if it's only 1 ship on 1 of the flanks to worry about...

& in a torp BB w/turtleback armor at close brawling range it's an ideal scenario :-)

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On 12/2/2020 at 5:06 AM, DJC_499 said:

I believe that this is WG intent to provide a buff to DDs and to the forthcoming subs.

Ooh the vocal minority.

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At least Massy has an improved accuracy on her secondaries by default. Poor German BB's have even worse accuracy by default, and needed the 60% reduction on dispersion of the current skill to actually make the secondaries worthwhile. After the rework, with only 35% reduction, I believe it would become quite painful to use. :Smile_sad:

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Secondary build BBs are one of my great joys in this game.  I have a ton of KM BBs (tech and prem) as secondary builds plus the Mass, GA and soon to be bought Ohio.  If these guys are greatly nerfed, this game is going to go downhill real fast for me.

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Although I do not play her much anymore I am looking forward to seeing how the Konig Albert does with this improved secondary accuracy....she will be even more brutal than she is now...

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