Flint coming for coal - study in ship stats

[OnociTsalk]

The Flint currently sits far atop the stat pile on the T7 cruiser list. With it about to be available for coal starting tomorrow, I think it will be interesting to see if it drops in rating. There will be another drop in ratings once the commander rework hit as it will not be able to equip AFT spec, keeping its maximum base firing range of 11.1 instead of 13.3. I wonder if WG is going to increase its stock range, if not enjoy your Flint, new and old customers as the skill rework is about to hit in 2 months from now - patch 0.10.1.

P.S. also thanks in advance to all those who gonna help increase our PR by bringing down the server stats of the ship. Will be worth visiting in a couple of months

[DuckyShot]

22 minutes ago, OnociTsalk said:

The Flint currently sits far atop the stat pile on the T7 cruiser list. With it about to be available for coal starting tomorrow, I think it will be interesting to see if it drops in rating. There will be another drop in ratings once the commander rework hit as it will not be able to equip AFT spec, keeping its maximum base firing range of 11.1 instead of 13.3. I wonder if WG is going to increase its stock range, if not enjoy your Flint, new and old customers as the skill rework is about to hit in 2 months from now - patch 0.10.1.

P.S. also thanks in advance to all those who gonna help increase our PR by bringing down the server stats of the ship. Will be worth visiting in a couple of months

I expect Flint and atlanta to get some range buff, along with some destroyers. Will we see the full 13.3? Not likely, but I would bank on 12ish. 

The problem with taking aft away, is not only does it nerf damage output somewhat, it also nerfs survivability. So they can't say that one of the junk skills they are putting into this rebork will compensate fully. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

15 minutes ago, DuckyShot said:

So they can't say that one of the junk skills they are putting into this rebork will compensate fully.

They can SAY anything...but that doesnt mean we have to buy what they say.

;)

[DrHolmes52]

16 minutes ago, DuckyShot said:

So they can't say 

I see you are new around here.

And I am slow on the draw.

[warheart1992]

If Flint were to come out tomorrow and  Operation earnings weren't nerfed this would have been an instant buy. Now not so much. Still, a better ship than Atlanta will ever be.

I remember when one of the scariest things to ever face at tier VII was a Flint/Atlanta/Belfast division....

[Wye_So_Serious]

In lieu of a range buff CLs with gun caliber less than 130 don’t have citadels.

On second thought. Colbert and Austin waiting in the wings may be filthy sans citadel.

[Wye_So_Serious]

4 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

If Flint were to come out tomorrow and  Operation earnings weren't nerfed this would have been an instant buy. Now not so much. Still, a better ship than Atlanta will ever be.

I remember when one of the scariest things to ever face at tier VII was a Flint/Atlanta/Belfast division....

Had a lot of fun doing one of those. At least we had fun, not so much for the other side. Had a smart DD just spot for us, give extra smoke and chuck torps at them out too.

[OnociTsalk]

1 hour ago, DuckyShot said:

I expect Flint and atlanta to get some range buff, along with some destroyers. Will we see the full 13.3? Not likely, but I would bank on 12ish. 

The problem with taking aft away, is not only does it nerf damage output somewhat, it also nerfs survivability. So they can't say that one of the junk skills they are putting into this rebork will compensate fully. 

Agree. Hopefully the Colbert too receives a similar baked in buff. I wouldn't mind if the Smolensk didn't get one, it already is infamous for being OP.

[OnociTsalk]

33 minutes ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

In lieu of a range buff CLs with gun caliber less than 130 don’t have citadels.

On second thought. Colbert and Austin waiting in the wings may be filthy sans citadel.

Not sure I understood what you mean. Are they going to remove citadels from ships having <130mm caliber or is it going to be a captain skill, or did I completely miss the point?

[ramp4ge]

8 minutes ago, OnociTsalk said:

Not sure I understood what you mean. Are they going to remove citadels from ships having <130mm caliber or is it going to be a captain skill, or did I completely miss the point?

 

He's suggesting that if they aren't going to buff the range on small gun cruisers they should remove the citadels.

 

Which is something I can get behind to an extent. Honestly though I think citadel chunking is poor game design no matter what ships they're on. 

 

 

[Captain_Rawhide]

Aren't most of these Flint numbers from before the HE and armor changes.  People are going to read this and think that Flint is a great ship.  Not anymore.  The HE/armor changes hurt this badly and the 'new and improved' commanders skills will be the nail in the coffin. 

[Princess_Daystar]

5 minutes ago, ramp4ge said:

 

He's suggesting that if they aren't going to buff the range on small gun cruisers they should remove the citadels.

 

Which is something I can get behind to an extent. Honestly though I think citadel chunking is poor game design no matter what ships they're on. 

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

In lieu of a range buff CLs with gun caliber less than 130 don’t have citadels.

On second thought. Colbert and Austin waiting in the wings may be filthy sans citadel.

 

If they made the Atlanta/Flint not be able to take citadels id die happy, but they still need to have at least a 1km range increase..i have DDs with longer ranges than the Atlanta, They are basically large DDs anyways especially with the 13MM of armor they have.

 

CLs that have effective armor, effective gun ranges or decent guns wouldnt need many buffs..some yes, but not all.

[Gemlin]

Unless they do something for the removal of BFT and AFT, you're gonna get disappointed with the Atlanta and Flint. Both these boats took a HUGE hit with the IFHE NERF.

SO much of a hit, the Atlanta is now a port queen in my port. Not worth playing. Ships she played against got a armor buff and now she has a huge problem of penning them. If you get IFHE, you don't start fires like you did in the past. With the AFT removal of the captains skill, you have to get even closer to do damage. Also your rate of fire will not be the same anymore with the lack of BFT, again removal with captain skill rework.

[ramp4ge]

12 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

 

 

If they made the Atlanta/Flint not be able to take citadels id die happy, but they still need to have at least a 1km range increase..i have DDs with longer ranges than the Atlanta, They are basically large DDs anyways especially with the 13MM of armor they have.

 

CLs that have effective armor, effective gun ranges or decent guns wouldnt need many buffs..some yes, but not all.

 

And DDs still get AFT. Lol.

 

It's amazing, isn't it?

 

By their own logic, why do DDs need AFT when not all DDs are gunboats?

[IfYouSeeKhaos]

Flint & Atlanta also got the rebork nerf in AA effectiveness loss along w/the IFHE nerf.

Taking away AFT (not only for range nerf but also as Ducky pointed out the minimal survivability nerf from the effects AFT has on AA) w/out some sort of compensation will be harsh to say the least.

Expecting something to balance it out...but expecting Flint to be pulled from armory (& Atlanta from premium shop...due to lack of sales of course) temporarily right before the announcement of those buffs so the "players that showed faith in WG to compensate by buying the Flint (or Atlanta) while it (they) was (were) available" will get the benefits & those that don't grab it while they can will just be left wanting until it (they) is (are) reintroed at a later time...to build up demand.

[vak_]

Flint is not a good ship now. Avoid. 

[EyE_dYe_QuIck]

8 minutes ago, vak_ said:

Flint is not a good ship now. Avoid. 

weegee failed experiment of HE rework nerfed a lot of t7's cruisers they became bad. Actually i dont know why you'd buy a t7 cruiser . drop $26 for the ATL B . bottom tier or mid tier get [edited] , top tier ...eh 

 

* even knowing this i did buy the ATL B cause Atlanta dammit 

[Slimeball91]

51 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Aren't most of these Flint numbers from before the HE and armor changes. 

You're right, the numbers are largely from when this ship was a reward that generally only highly skilled/experienced players earned.  I'm sure the numbers took a hit when it was made a steel ship, and then again when steel became easier to attain.  Let's look at some of the numbers for T7 cruisers from last week.  Flint is second best behind Belfast.  The Belfast is played almost twice as much as the Flint and it's still a strong enough ship to put much better numbers. http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20201128/na_week/average_ship_u.html

Myoko	34,314
Yorck	33,929
Muenchen	38,210
Algerie	37,806
Fiji	39,843
Surrey	38,603
Belfast	51,924
Shchors	37,996
Lazo	39,765
Helena	33,497
New Orleans	30,855
Atlanta	30,175
Boise	35,413
Flint	45,866

[Wye_So_Serious]

1 hour ago, OnociTsalk said:

Not sure I understood what you mean. Are they going to remove citadels from ships having <130mm caliber or is it going to be a captain skill, or did I completely miss the point?

DevBlog FAQ said they would monitor CLs that used to use AFT/BFT and buff accordingly.

I was simply suggesting not buffing the range, just make them into big destroyers by removing the citadel on said CLs

[Wye_So_Serious]

58 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

 

 

If they made the Atlanta/Flint not be able to take citadels id die happy, but they still need to have at least a 1km range increase..i have DDs with longer ranges than the Atlanta, They are basically large DDs anyways especially with the 13MM of armor they have.

 

CLs that have effective armor, effective gun ranges or decent guns wouldnt need many buffs..some yes, but not all.

Agreed, but at least we'd get longer to spam HE at sub-4 seconds once AR kicks in, with or without the additional range.

OR reduce detection to 8km. That could be nasty.

[Slimeball91]

2 hours ago, DuckyShot said:

I expect Flint and atlanta to get some range buff, along with some destroyers. Will we see the full 13.3? Not likely, but I would bank on 12ish.

I hope you're right, but I fear this won't happen.  I think WG has an ax to grind with these small caliber gun cruisers.  Too much HE spam and it causes server lag.  Nothing a few nerfs won't fix though. 

[Princess_Daystar]

7 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

I hope you're right, but I fear this won't happen.  I think WG has an ax to grind with these small caliber gun cruisers.  Too much HE spam and it causes server lag.  Nothing a few nerfs won't fix though. 

If they really wanted to change them there are sooo many other ways that wouldnt upset people or ruin premium ships though :(

[HamAndCheez]

9 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

You're right, the numbers are largely from when this ship was a reward that generally only highly skilled/experienced players earned.  I'm sure the numbers took a hit when it was made a steel ship, and then again when steel became easier to attain.  Let's look at some of the numbers for T7 cruisers from last week.  Flint is second best behind Belfast.  The Belfast is played almost twice as much as the Flint and it's still a strong enough ship to put much better numbers. http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20201128/na_week/average_ship_u.html

Myoko	34,314
Yorck	33,929
Muenchen	38,210
Algerie	37,806
Fiji	39,843
Surrey	38,603
Belfast	51,924
Shchors	37,996
Lazo	39,765
Helena	33,497
New Orleans	30,855
Atlanta	30,175
Boise	35,413
Flint	45,866

Hilariously, Surrey is in 5th place there, out of 14 ships.

[ramp4ge]

9 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

I hope you're right, but I fear this won't happen.  I think WG has an ax to grind with these small caliber gun cruisers.  Too much HE spam and it causes server lag.  Nothing a few nerfs won't fix though. 

 

If that were true they wouldn't keep adding them.

 

We've got another one right over the horizon. 

 

I think it's more that Atlanta's an old ship and she was balanced back when they were still using the "The range is dictated by the height of the primary firecontrol director above the waterline" metric to determine range. Something they haven't even pretended to do in a long time. Most ships that were balanced this way (IE, the low-tier USN battleships) had their ranges normalized. Atlanta's just been ignored.

[Slimeball91]

38 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

If they really wanted to change them there are sooo many other ways that wouldnt upset people or ruin premium ships though :(

And what other way would there be that wouldn't upset people?  Look at the changes that will exclude fire prevention build for super cruisers.  You tell me if that isn't a nerf specifically aimed at super cruisers.  People don't like but WG is doing it anyway.

35 minutes ago, ramp4ge said:

If that were true they wouldn't keep adding them.

The Austin will be more balanced so it won't be overpopulated.  A T10 with 30k HP, fewer guns and longer reload than the Atlanta with the same 16mm paper armor.  To be fair, the Austin does have a vicious reload booster.  Even with the reload booster this ship won't be the next Smolensk.