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LunchCutter

Can this game some how coach bad players into playing better?

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Watching a few games pan out with bad results after my teammates made some truly awful tactical blunders

 One particular player in a Benson who died very early in both games (late at night so not many on) seemed to like rushing caps with no support, getting lit by planes, using his AA, then murdered by cruisers/planes. This happened 2 games in a row and I looked at his stats afterwards. 1300 games, 42% WR and 600 XP per game. This guy was really bad despite been in a fairly well known clan. Also watching my teams top tier Georgia try and rush with no support into a hail of torpedoes and then complain about the team been cowards.. He also had horrendous stats. Another slow witted player broke cover in his Cleveland and tried to duel it out in open water with a damaged Tirpitz, needless to say it didn't end well for him.

 

 Makes me think should this game try and do something about awful players? Not like confine them to co-op mode or other extreme measures but have like a simple AI bot that can give pointers during a game when a players stats start becoming really really bad. A small option that the player can enable once their win rate drops below 46%. Like telling a New Orleans that's about to go sideon and start dueling with a Iowa at close range that is a unwise tactic, seek cover and attempt to 'kite hit' the target. Or tell that tier 5 Japanese DD with 2 light machineguns for air defence to turn his AA off as its attracting the planes, not scaring them off..

 

It's a easy game to play but a extremely hard game to get good at. Often taking 500+ games to get a basic understanding of the mechanics. A few friends I convinced to try it gave up after 30 games because they were struggling with the stealth and cover concepts. The training rooms only teach the basics. 

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If you think it's bad now, wait till after the new skills tree is implemented.  I think a large number of current experienced players are going to simply walk away from the game because of this nonsense, leaving the game with an even smaller group of average+ players.  But the matches will be over faster, which is what the devs want.

Edited by ElAurens
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When you see people who punch the hydro button on their Kurfurst, three seconds into the game, in a rear spawn, when no torpedo threat or enemy ship could possibly be near them, you know there is nothing that will fix some players.

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Well ever since the great rework WG has decided it would rather have bad players not good players playing this game.  Fruits of their labor are on display!

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6 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

When you see people who punch the hydro button on their Kurfurst, three seconds into the game, in a rear spawn, when no torpedo threat or enemy ship could possibly be near them, you know there is nothing that will fix some players.

What I like is the player who starts screaming "I need intelligence data," "Requesting AA support," and "Set a Smoke Screen"  two seconds after the match has started. I've been known to tell such players that if they don't shut up that I'm going to torp them myself.

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2 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

"Requesting AA support,"

If it's a DD that spawned near a cap that they're moving straight in to contest, and there are carriers, I'll take them seriously; and if I spawned near them in an AA-capable cruiser I'll move to support them. Otherwise, yeah.

The depressingly funny ones are the ones who do it with no CV in the game - or the ones who scream "I need your support!" in their back-line BB.

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17 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

When you see people who punch the hydro button on their Kurfurst, three seconds into the game, in a rear spawn, when no torpedo threat or enemy ship could possibly be near them, you know there is nothing that will fix some players.

Obviously those individuals don't understand how Hydro works, how would a new player know this? There's nothing that really tells them what the range of their hydro is and what exactly it does; if you want to *fix* that player then maybe mention it to them in chat or point them to the Wiki.

The way I found out how hydro works was by stumbling across the WoWs Wiki but I suspect that a lot of players are just pressing buttons trying to figure out what everything does.

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11 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

or the ones who scream "I need your support!" in their back-line BB.

Then, you have situations like this...

image.png.0ae04d5490135b14c7ff126b02f8de05.png

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8 minutes ago, WaywardVariable said:

Obviously those individuals don't understand how Hydro works, how would a new player know this?

This isn't someone new - this is someone who has managed to progress all the way to Tier 10 in the German BB line without figuring out how hydroacoustic search works or what its limitations are.

To take an extreme example, you can't get from Hermelin to Kurfurst on day one, except by the most exorbitant and deliberate crate spending and free XP-ing (Dunkirk premium containers, for example, CAN give you 4000 FXP a pop although they don't always do so).

If it were a Pommern I'd have given them the benefit of the doubt that they were a noob who whaled it in the shop and were taking it out for a spin. But not the Kurfurst. 

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Let's say you're a newb and you wanna try to get all the passive players on your team to do something.  You've now become a lone wolf and are fair game for the lone wolf police.  So the lesson is to play more passive.  

But that's not exactly a helpful lesson.  It's a quandary.

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This isn't someone new - this is someone who has managed to progress all the way to Tier 10 in the German BB line without figuring out how hydroacoustic search works or what its limitations are.

To take an extreme example, you can't get from Hermelin to Kurfurst on day one, except by the most exorbitant and deliberate crate spending and free XP-ing (Dunkirk premium containers, for example, CAN give you 4000 FXP a pop although they don't always do so).

If it were a Pommern I'd have given them the benefit of the doubt that they were a noob who whaled it in the shop and were taking it out for a spin. But not the Kurfurst. 

I see your point but honestly I think for a lot of players that is a difference without a distinction, in other words they may be in a Tier 10 but IMHO they're still for all intents and purposes a "new" player since they don't understand basics and don't  realize what they don't know.

Of course there are those that just don't care and will give you grief just for pointing out the error but you've got to take the good with the bad I suppose.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

When you see people who punch the hydro button on their Kurfurst, three seconds into the game, in a rear spawn, when no torpedo threat or enemy ship could possibly be near them, you know there is nothing that will fix some players.

The same thing is true for players just after the battle starts who launch a spotter plane with no enemy ships spotted or cat fighter with no enemy planes to defend against.

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13 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

You know what they say about leading a horse to water . . .

You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think....

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49 minutes ago, WaywardVariable said:

Obviously those individuals don't understand how Hydro works, how would a new player know this? There's nothing that really tells them what the range of their hydro is and what exactly it does; if you want to *fix* that player then maybe mention it to them in chat or point them to the Wiki.

The way I found out how hydro works was by stumbling across the WoWs Wiki but I suspect that a lot of players are just pressing buttons trying to figure out what everything does.

Just hover your cursor over the hydro button while in battle.  And that will tell you what you need to know.

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The same thing is true for players just after the battle starts who launch a spotter plane with no enemy ships spotted or cat fighter with no enemy planes to defend against.

If I'm not mistaken both spotter planes and catapult fighters can be useful in spotting nearby enemy ships that come within the plane's spotting range, so that could explain why some players launch them without any apparent reason given that the spotting range of those planes is rather vague.

Personally I assume it's just a couple of KM but I really don't know for sure.

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I had a captain in a Kaga B two days ago with 26 battles played. Not 26 battles in the Kaga B, 26 total battles overall. What can we possibly teach him in one match? I like the concept but people always skip through tutorials in games anyway.

Even if War Gaming made tutorials mandatory for new players they'd still give them the option to skip it if they pay doubloons.

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1 minute ago, WaywardVariable said:

If I'm not mistaken both spotter planes and catapult fighters can be useful in spotting nearby enemy ships that come within the plane's spotting range, so that could explain why some players launch them without any apparent reason given that the spotting range of those planes is rather vague.

Personally I assume it's just a couple of KM but I really don't know for sure.

Did the part where I said "just after the battle starts" not register?

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Just now, Crucis said:

Did the part where I said "just after the battle starts" not register?

Yeah, I got that.

I was pointing out why someone might do that because he/she doesn't understand how spotting with those planes works (i.e. the range limitations) since the information on those limitations isn't readily apparent.

 

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1 minute ago, WaywardVariable said:

Yeah, I got that.

I was pointing out why someone might do that because he/she doesn't understand how spotting with those planes works (i.e. the range limitations) since the information on those limitations isn't readily apparent.

 

Then I guess that I must be some sort of gaming genius (I'm not) because I had this stuff figured out almost instantly. 

Of course, I suppose 3,000+ games of WoT may have helped a little.  :Smile_hiding:

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1 hour ago, LunchCutter said:

Watching a few games pan out with bad results after my teammates made some truly awful tactical blunders

 One particular player in a Benson who died very early in both games (late at night so not many on) seemed to like rushing caps with no support, getting lit by planes, using his AA, then murdered by cruisers/planes. This happened 2 games in a row and I looked at his stats afterwards. 1300 games, 42% WR and 600 XP per game. This guy was really bad despite been in a fairly well known clan. Also watching my teams top tier Georgia try and rush with no support into a hail of torpedoes and then complain about the team been cowards.. He also had horrendous stats. Another slow witted player broke cover in his Cleveland and tried to duel it out in open water with a damaged Tirpitz, needless to say it didn't end well for him.

 Makes me think should this game try and do something about awful players? Not like confine them to co-op mode or other extreme measures but have like a simple AI bot that can give pointers during a game when a players stats start becoming really really bad. A small option that the player can enable once their win rate drops below 46%. Like telling a New Orleans that's about to go sideon and start dueling with a Iowa at close range that is a unwise tactic, seek cover and attempt to 'kite hit' the target. Or tell that tier 5 Japanese DD with 2 light machineguns for air defence to turn his AA off as its attracting the planes, not scaring them off..

It's a easy game to play but a extremely hard game to get good at. Often taking 500+ games to get a basic understanding of the mechanics. A few friends I convinced to try it gave up after 30 games because they were struggling with the stealth and cover concepts. The training rooms only teach the basics.

Many games have "learning and hint" screens that encourage new players to............take a hint or accept some advice.  Did they work>?  No, sadly.......because a lot of people "try out" a game to see if they like the content and pace.

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

When you see people who punch the hydro button on their Kurfurst, three seconds into the game, in a rear spawn, when no torpedo threat or enemy ship could possibly be near them, you know there is nothing that will fix some players.

Well, I've bumped the smoke button a few times at the spawn......  "Ooops !  Did I do that?"   The old "one handed oooops trick."   Simply missed what I really wanted to hit.....

What is going to "get worse" will be in influx of ESRB T young adults that are now, not formally going back to school till............maybe, the fall of 2021.   I was told yesterday that a lot of parents taking the youngsters to Video Game shops and eSports meetings are looking for "more acceptable" videogames for their children to play..........  Some are looking for historical or history based games.....  This game is being recommended because it fits both of those categories.  And, that means locally, a lot of young adults might just swarm in and they are wanting PVP.......not, PVE according to what I heard yesterday.....  I got the call to wander back in and talk about building a POI for a history over view parents can use to apply for History credits for home school youngsters based on WoWs.....  We'll see where this goes over the holidays......

48 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This isn't someone new - this is someone who has managed to progress all the way to Tier 10 in the German BB line without figuring out how hydroacoustic search works or what its limitations are.

Ah, they are buying only premium ships after reading this forum for advice.  Grandparents are spending the money it seems.  I have a personal experience with this as I have reported months ago.......  Those accounts were never closed with that posse of youngsters as of yesterday; when, I asked my daughter.  So, a large influx of brand new players "may be" in the near future.  And, they are PVP aimed.  The parents of those who are interested know about NACE and like that their children are playing a game that is competitive with real money.  Now, we are as well.   If the Universities were operating pre-plague, those eSports programs would be packed !!  They hired NACE FT coaches....!!!  I posted a job description a few months ago as well. 

1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

What I like is the player who starts screaming "I need intelligence data," "Requesting AA support," and "Set a Smoke Screen"  two seconds after the match has started. I've been known to tell such players that if they don't shut up that I'm going to torp them myself.

Get ready, it's gonna be a bumpy ride these next few months.........  The CPT respec scare me a lot more than young adults.  I only play COOP for a reason !

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6 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

Is that a digital threat?  Oh my!

Randoms players are like that with CVs. Instant threat. Even if a Potato 🥔, they can spot red to death and team just has to keep firing.

In my experience, red never liked me in a CV. One bomb drop or torpedo drop and they immediately curse my name.

I am not the best. But I do know how to get a ship if I want to. Even if he had the other 10 surrounding him like Madonna in the "Material Girl" video, I will still get in.

I will just sink a few in the way. LOL

The fun part is that nobody on red will volunteer and die for a designated target. 

Would you?

 

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