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Efros

19pt Captains no more...

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Just to make it clear the devblog categorically states in the FAQ that any 19pt capts you have will remain as 19 pt captains after the rework and you will have to regrind them to 21 pts. This is utter, utter B$ emphasis on the $. The skill rework itself was not asked for and the general feeling I'm seeing is that it is not wanted in this current form. Every change seems to be rigged in such a way as you either grind or pay, and not in credits, but in doubloons. It is just a cash grab. With 30 19pt captains I'm looking at a regrind of something like 40 million ECXP just to maintain my current position, this with the immediate loss of the majority of my EXCP earners. Camel... straw... back... you do the sentence construction because I am beyond irritated.

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Yes, it is cash grab. 

If it was a cash grab that made positive changes to the game, it would be bad, but it could be fun in the end. But it is simply a cash grab derived from pure greed and stubbornness, combined with a few lames excuses that convinced no one, that will crap in a lot of ships, including premium ones. 

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1 hour ago, Efros said:

Just to make it clear the devblog categorically states in the FAQ that any 19pt capts you have will remain as 19 pt captains after the rework and you will have to regrind them to 21 pts. This is utter, utter B$ emphasis on the $. The skill rework itself was not asked for and the general feeling I'm seeing is that it is not wanted in this current form. Every change seems to be rigged in such a way as you either grind or pay, and not in credits, but in doubloons. It is just a cash grab. With 30 19pt captains I'm looking at a regrind of something like 40 million ECXP just to maintain my current position, this with the immediate loss of the majority of my EXCP earners. Camel... straw... back... you do the sentence construction because I am beyond irritated.

Yup. This is flat out nothing but increase the grind for the players and increase $$$ for WG; period. It has nothing really to do with improving Capt's for the players (in reality I think these new skills mainly suck and overall the Capt's will be MUCH worse because of this change). I have 54 19pt Capt's so I feel your pain.

I was hoarding ECXP in preparation for this change but stopped and said why am I using all these flags and camos and going crazy grinding? That is exactly what they want. Screw them. I am saving those valuable flags and camos for missions and such and just playing. I no longer even care about the Capt aspect. They flat out are ruining the best working and most balanced aspect of the game = the current Capt System.

You know WG's motto though...

"If it ain't broke we are gonna fix it"

I am so far beyond irritated at them it has turned to apathy. Just don't care anymore. What is the point? They don't care and will do anything they want in their quest for more and more $$$. Sure wish someone there had enough sense to realize they are killing their game in the process.

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1 hour ago, Efros said:

Just to make it clear the devblog categorically states in the FAQ that any 19pt capts you have will remain as 19 pt captains after the rework and you will have to regrind them to 21 pts. This is utter, utter B$ emphasis on the $. The skill rework itself was not asked for and the general feeling I'm seeing is that it is not wanted in this current form. Every change seems to be rigged in such a way as you either grind or pay, and not in credits, but in doubloons. It is just a cash grab. With 30 19pt captains I'm looking at a regrind of something like 40 million ECXP just to maintain my current position, this with the immediate loss of the majority of my EXCP earners. Camel... straw... back... you do the sentence construction because I am beyond irritated.

What am I missing? You said that your 19 point captains will remain 19 point captains after the rework, so you wouldn't have to "regrind something like 40 million ECXP just to main my current position", you'll still have your "current position" (30 19 point captains) after the rework and would have to get that additional 40 million ECXP to promote all your 19 point captains to 21 point captains, correct?

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21 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Screw them. I am saving those valuable flags and camos for missions and such and just playing. I no longer even care about the Capt aspect.

This is the right way to play, right here. Always has been.

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8 minutes ago, WaywardVariable said:

What am I missing? You said that your 19 point captains will remain 19 point captains after the rework, so you wouldn't have to "regrind something like 40 million ECXP just to main my current position", you'll still have your "current position" (30 19 point captains) after the rework and would have to get that additional 40 million ECXP to promote all your 19 point captains to 21 point captains, correct?

You are missing that currently his 30 19pt Capt's are elite and the CXP earned is elite and thus can be used on any Capt he wishes (not already 19 of course).

WG is taking that away now. Now we need to grind these Capt's again to a new level, 21, for them to be elite and thus earn elite CXP. It is moving the goal post on something we already did and taking away a very tangible reward/perk for the effort. It is like making players go back and grind an extra 100K XP on the T9 ship before you can play the T10 ship you have again. It is asinine.

And before anyone jumps in to tell me but WG is making all Capt's 20 and below generate 5% ECXP now; STOP! That is a freaking joke and will be a pitiful amount compared to what Efros's (and mine and every other player's) 19pt Capt's earn currently.

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1 hour ago, Efros said:

The skill rework itself was not asked for and the general feeling I'm seeing is that it is not wanted in this current form.

WG shouldn't be changing things based on what is the most complained about - they should be changing what they think is best for the game.

As for the skill rework, WG are in a quandary, this rework has pretty much been forced on them. They had to do an entire rework with IFHE - a massive change to the game, in both balance terms and the sheer amount of work they had to do - all because one captain skill was unbalanced. That skill had significantly different levels of effectiveness depending on which ship type was using it, and it would have been a relatively simple change for WG if they only had to worry about cruisers when changing the skill. This likely got them extremely motivated to separate out the skill trees into different ship types, given the huge amount of work they had to put into the IFHE rework.

This will make it far easier for them to balance out any individual problem skills in the future.

Also, they will be introducing subs next year, and that poses a huge problem for the current skill tree. There are very few relevant sub skills in the tree, so they would have to try and wedge them in while keeping the existing skills balanced for all classes. This would have been extremely difficult, with little likelihood of a good result. Now that they are separating out each ship type to have their own tree, that huge problem simply vanishes.

So you see, despite the fact that no one was asking for it, WG really had no choice in the matter, as the current tree was causing bigger and bigger problems for them. They are currently future proofing the system. It's smart game development really.

1 hour ago, Efros said:

With 30 19pt captains I'm looking at a regrind of something like 40 million ECXP just to maintain my current position

Well they haven't actually told us what the extra points will cost.  Last time they did a skill rework, where they went from 18 to 19 pts available, they made 18 pts cost less than the previous 18 pt captain, and then a 19 pt captain cost more than the previous 18 pt.  They may well choose to reduce the XP required again.  Even if they keep it the same, it will be about 750k CXP for the final two points.  For thirty 19 pt captains that is 22.5m CXP, which is an awful lot less than 40m.

Also, you're not actually losing any points, you're only gaining new ones.  They aren't taking anything off you.

I can't believe you're actually suggesting that they should just give you 21 pt captains in exchange for your 19 pters.  It's like an RPG where you level up, and they release a new expansion and you start complaining that they don't automatically make your characters the new max level.  It's just a bizarre mindset by you here.  Although sometimes WG will give you free stuff, you most definitely aren't entitled to free stuff, yet you seem to think you are.  Grind it out, that's the point.

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4 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

I can't believe you're actually suggesting that they should just give you 21 pt captains in exchange for your 19 pters.  It's like an RPG where you level up, and they release a new expansion and you start complaining that they don't automatically make your characters the new max level.  It's just a bizarre mindset by you here.  Although sometimes WG will give you free stuff, you most definitely aren't entitled to free stuff, yet you seem to think you are.  Grind it out, that's the point.

You can believe anything you like, but I would like my hard earned elite captains to remain so and not be arbitrarily demoted. Now if they had been fiddling with the mess boy fair enough...

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11 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

You are missing that currently his 30 19pt Capt's are elite and the CXP earned is elite and thus can be used on any Capt he wishes (not already 19 of course).

WG is taking that away now. Now we need to grind these Capt's again to a new level, 21, for them to be elite and thus earn elite CXP. It is moving the goal post on something we already did and taking away a very tangible reward/perk for the effort. It is like making players go back and grind an extra 100K XP on the T9 ship before you can play the T10 ship you have again. It is asinine.

And before anyone jumps in to tell me but WG is making all Capt's 20 and below generate 5% ECXP now; STOP! That is a freaking joke and will be a pitiful amount compared to what Efros's (and mine and every other player's) 19pt Capt's earn currently.

Thanks for clarifying that, much appreciated.

So in order to make this right with all those  that have 19 point captains all WG would have to do is to keep the current elite status for 19 point captains (and above), is that correct? 

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11 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

WG shouldn't be changing things based on what is the most complained about - they should be changing what they think is best for the game.

As for the skill rework, WG are in a quandary, this rework has pretty much been forced on them. They had to do an entire rework with IFHE - a massive change to the game, in both balance terms and the sheer amount of work they had to do - all because one captain skill was unbalanced. That skill had significantly different levels of effectiveness depending on which ship type was using it, and it would have been a relatively simple change for WG if they only had to worry about cruisers when changing the skill. This likely got them extremely motivated to separate out the skill trees into different ship types, given the huge amount of work they had to put into the IFHE rework.

This will make it far easier for them to balance out any individual problem skills in the future.

Also, they will be introducing subs next year, and that poses a huge problem for the current skill tree. There are very few relevant sub skills in the tree, so they would have to try and wedge them in while keeping the existing skills balanced for all classes. This would have been extremely difficult, with little likelihood of a good result. Now that they are separating out each ship type to have their own tree, that huge problem simply vanishes.

So you see, despite the fact that no one was asking for it, WG really had no choice in the matter, as the current tree was causing bigger and bigger problems for them. They are currently future proofing the system. It's smart game development really.

Well they haven't actually told us what the extra points will cost.  Last time they did a skill rework, where they went from 18 to 19 pts available, they made 18 pts cost less than the previous 18 pt captain, and then a 19 pt captain cost more than the previous 18 pt.  They may well choose to reduce the XP required again.  Even if they keep it the same, it will be about 750k CXP for the final two points.  For thirty 19 pt captains that is 22.5m CXP, which is an awful lot less than 40m.

Also, you're not actually losing any points, you're only gaining new ones.  They aren't taking anything off you.

I can't believe you're actually suggesting that they should just give you 21 pt captains in exchange for your 19 pters.  It's like an RPG where you level up, and they release a new expansion and you start complaining that they don't automatically make your characters the new max level.  It's just a bizarre mindset by you here.  Although sometimes WG will give you free stuff, you most definitely aren't entitled to free stuff, yet you seem to think you are.  Grind it out, that's the point.

 

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I'm so disappointed with the skill re-set and the fate of 19pt. Commanders,if WOWS wants our XP so bad there's so many better ways to to attain it with out stooping to robbery 

Edited by commando_brian
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1 hour ago, WaywardVariable said:

Thanks for clarifying that, much appreciated.

So in order to make this right with all those  that have 19 point captains all WG would have to do is to keep the current elite status for 19 point captains (and above), is that correct? 

or auto promote them to rank 21. maxed out commander before the update, becomes a maxed out commander after the update. For players like me nothing changes..the goal post gets moved -alot- further down the road but for players like Admiral and Efros it would keep them in the same spot they are now with the frustration of just having to reassign skills to so many captains.

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5 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

or auto promote them to rank 21. maxed out commander before the update, becomes a maxed out commander after the update. For players like me nothing changes..the goal post gets moved -alot- further down the road but for players like Admiral and Efros it would keep them in the same spot they are now with the frustration of just having to reassign skills to so many captains.

That sounds like a very good idea.

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2 minutes ago, WaywardVariable said:

That sounds like a very good idea.

Which is why it wont ever happen.

Wargaming sees $$$$$$$$, but they dont realize alot of players who have been here awhile are frustrated. Hell i just got back into the game and im frustrated.

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2 hours ago, WaywardVariable said:

What am I missing? You said that your 19 point captains will remain 19 point captains after the rework, so you wouldn't have to "regrind something like 40 million ECXP just to main my current position", you'll still have your "current position" (30 19 point captains) after the rework and would have to get that additional 40 million ECXP to promote all your 19 point captains to 21 point captains, correct?

I responded to a post yesterday regarding a secondary build captain under the new 21 point system.  

Basically, it took 21 points to do THE EXACT SAME build as your current 19 point captain.  The new AR is a 3 point skill instead of a 2 point skill.  The new SI is a 4 point skill instead of a 3 point skill.  

Nobody is going to want to grind 750K captain XP to have the same skills and gameplay.

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29 minutes ago, Glamorboy said:

I responded to a post yesterday regarding a secondary build captain under the new 21 point system.  

Basically, it took 21 points to do THE EXACT SAME build as your current 19 point captain.  The new AR is a 3 point skill instead of a 2 point skill.  The new SI is a 4 point skill instead of a 3 point skill.  

Nobody is going to want to grind 750K captain XP to have the same skills and gameplay.

Interesting, If that's the case then this "rework" makes no sense. Normally one would expect that moving the goal posts would give players something *more* to shoot for, not try to keep them running in place.

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Fellas...the best place to complain about this isn't here...where WG will just ignore us.

The BEST place to complain about this is with your friends that don't play this game yet.

The point to make here is to ask WG why we should recruit new players into this mess?

How are they going to incentivize churn when we are just going to word of mouth / social media communicate the facts about what is happening?

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Remember how hard it was to get your first 19 point captain, before the game got easier with a prem camo and a 19 pointers?

Now think about how hard it will be for new players.

Oh wait, if the dev is actually considerate of new player and churn it would have better tutorials, no double cv games at low tiers, and def. didn't need to add bots to lower tier battles.

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2 minutes ago, mixmkz said:

Remember how hard it was to get your first 19 point captain, before the game got easier with a prem camo and a 19 pointers?

Now think about how hard it will be for new players.

Oh wait, if the dev is actually considerate of new player and churn it would have better tutorials, no double cv games at low tiers, and def. didn't need to add bots to lower tier battles.

The average new player probably doesn't even get close to a 19 point captain.  

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3 hours ago, WaywardVariable said:

What am I missing? You said that your 19 point captains will remain 19 point captains after the rework, so you wouldn't have to "regrind something like 40 million ECXP just to main my current position", you'll still have your "current position" (30 19 point captains) after the rework and would have to get that additional 40 million ECXP to promote all your 19 point captains to 21 point captains, correct?

A couple of popular skills are increasing in cost (PT and AR).  The day this goes live, you will lose one or more skills to keep those, are you just don’t run PT or AR.  Thus, the day this patch goes live, many commanders will be weaker until they grind to 21.

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6 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

The average new player probably doesn't even get close to a 19 point captain.  

And now their chance of ever "accumulating" ecxp is 0% and the goal to make this game more fair and balanced between skill level, long term vs. short term players (as stated by cv rework) is further away than we began the year with

Edited by mixmkz
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Just now, mixmkz said:

And now their chance of ever "accumulating" ecxp is 0% and the goal to make this game more fair and balanced between skill level, long term vs. short term players (as stated by cv rework) is further away than we began the year with

Oh sure, it's terrible for the game.  But, I'm not sure how much that really matters.  Unfortunately.   

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5 hours ago, Efros said:

Just to make it clear the devblog categorically states in the FAQ that any 19pt capts you have will remain as 19 pt captains after the rework and you will have to regrind them to 21 pts

I really don't think that this is a huge surprise and that part of it is fair. Otherwise if your bumping 19 pt captains by 2 points then you gotta bump all captains by two points.  Also if you have 19 pointers now you can always bank ECXP to boost yourself when the new skills hit.  I have saved up enough ECXP in the last month to bump 2 captains straight to 21 points and should have enough for 3 or 4 by the time the patch hits. 

 

What I do not like is that some skills that are foundations of play styles like  AFT is going away and there does not seem to be a single word from WG how DDs and CLs are supposed to deal with this.   Atleast on the BB part WG orginally stated that secondary ranges on all BBs are supposed to increase.  Something which was absent from the latest work sheet.   

Also that there has not been any extensive testing of the new tree. 

Edited by eviltane

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