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Herr_Reitz

Camel back breaker Mister Optimistic

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So if this skill redo goes kablooey into a big blob of nasty green stuff that looks like a gorilla sneezed, there's an upside. Always has to be an upside. 

Imagine players get so disgusted about it they just stopped playing. Maybe a week, we'll say.

At the end of a week they might be jones'n for some WoWS but they think no! I've done a week, by golly I can do two! So they reach for some old games they haven't played for a long while because, well reasons. But primarily their old favorite was parked in favor of the WoWS game they are just sitting aside for one more week. 

Meanwhile, spreadsheets start tripping alarms as others like this one player do something similar. Maybe they spend more time with friends, with family, get some stuff done around the home, you know... actually do things in the physical world. Or they still need that dopa fix so they do indeed go back to their old game - or find a new one that delivers so much more of that sweet dopa.

Upside being we all have so many options available to us. Maybe, instead of just getting all cranked up about changes, it would seem, the majority of us did not want, we instead start looking for the upside. 

So I'm going to start the ball rolling for myself tonight. Hopefully you guys see less of me around here until things get really, really sorted out. In the picture of life, I have so much more to do that will bring more joy in the short and long run. Way too much time, too much time spent playing this game. 

May I suggest this might be a good time to take a look at your gaming habit as well. Maybe there's room for a bit of adjustment in your life too. 

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True. What WG is doing seems to be purely based on greed. If it turns out trash, as expected, it will be time to say goodbye.

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I haven't heard of how the monetization will take effect.

Right now, it's 500 Doubs to move a captain, and 475 to reset a 19 pointer.

Will that 475 be x 4 for a complete reset?  Is it 500 per ship move x 4?

So I have 4) 19 point US captains.  For grinders, that would cover all 4 CVs, 4 BBs, 4 CAs, and 4 DDs with captain skills. 

What about Submarines?  Will there be a 5th set of points for them?

Edited by AVR_Project

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Dammit @Herr_Reitz, I am trying to maintain a positive attitude that this isn't just another middle finger to the player base like the Rework....

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34 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

I haven't heard of how the monetization will take effect.

Right now, it's 500 Doubs to move a captain, and 475 to reset a 19 pointer.

Will that 475 be x 4 for a complete reset?  Is it 500 per ship move x 4?

So I have 4) 19 point US captains.  For grinders, that would cover all 4 CVs, 4 BBs, 4 CAs, and 4 DDs with captain skills. 

What about Submarines?  Will there be a 5th set of points for them?

Info is in Monday's Dev Blog. Retraining remains the same.

No one knows on subs.

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33 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Dammit @Herr_Reitz, I am trying to maintain a positive attitude that this isn't just another middle finger to the player base like the Rework....

Of course it is.

The 'Blah blah blah we listened to (ignored) the comments of the testers...' sounds just like it did two years ago.

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55 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

What about Submarines?  Will there be a 5th set of points for them?

Fair question, AVR.  I half expect that subs might have their own separate skill tree that may be completely unlinked from the normal skill trees.  Or they could just add a 5th ship type to the standard skill tree.  If they do that latter, you'd be free to create your own new sub captain, though you'd have to pay doubloons to switch an old captain from an existing tech tree surface ship to a tech tree sub.  Only time will tell.

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

So if this skill redo goes kablooey into a big blob of nasty green stuff that looks like a gorilla sneezed, there's an upside. Always has to be an upside. 

Imagine players get so disgusted about it they just stopped playing. Maybe a week, we'll say.

At the end of a week they might be jones'n for some WoWS but they think no! I've done a week, by golly I can do two! So they reach for some old games they haven't played for a long while because, well reasons. But primarily their old favorite was parked in favor of the WoWS game they are just sitting aside for one more week. 

Meanwhile, spreadsheets start tripping alarms as others like this one player do something similar. Maybe they spend more time with friends, with family, get some stuff done around the home, you know... actually do things in the physical world. Or they still need that dopa fix so they do indeed go back to their old game - or find a new one that delivers so much more of that sweet dopa.

Upside being we all have so many options available to us. Maybe, instead of just getting all cranked up about changes, it would seem, the majority of us did not want, we instead start looking for the upside. 

So I'm going to start the ball rolling for myself tonight. Hopefully you guys see less of me around here until things get really, really sorted out. In the picture of life, I have so much more to do that will bring more joy in the short and long run. Way too much time, too much time spent playing this game. 

May I suggest this might be a good time to take a look at your gaming habit as well. Maybe there's room for a bit of adjustment in your life too. 

Pretty good point I say.  Actually have Baldur's Gate 3 to work on, as well as new characters in Skyrim and Fallout 4.  The current grind to get the BF crates, which seem to run mostly 2 x camo's and 6000 FXP is getting tiresome.  Patch 9.11 looks pretty meh, so nothing really to do there.

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19 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Of course it is.

The 'Blah blah blah we listened to (ignored) the comments of the testers...' sounds just like it did two years ago.

Why do people think that they have some right to expect that a game company will kowtow to every feedback comment from their players?  Mind you, occasionally they do.  But remember that this community only represents a tiny fraction of the overall player base. 

Furthermore, caving in to testers who wanted to keep the RTS type CVs would have gone against one of the primary goals of the CV rework, i.e. to increase the number of players playing carriers.  A goal that has clearly been attained.  It would have been very unwise for them to have kept RTS carriers given that so few people played them because a) they required too much multitasking for most to play effectively and b) highly skill CV mains pretty much drove anyone not on their level out of randoms.  It would have been unwise to kowtow to an even tinier fraction of the player base, i.e. the unicum CV mains, rather than attempting to make carriers more popular for the wider player base (well, at least as long as they intended to keep CVs in the game, I suppose).

As for the skills rework, while I haven't done a close analysis of the various skills, I don't see anything major that bothers me.  Oh, I don't like a fair number of the new skill names.  The skill names that I don't like look like something a non-English speaker would call skills and appear completely dorky to me.

 

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13 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Why do people think that they have some right to expect that a game company will kowtow to every feedback comment from their players?  Mind you, occasionally they do.  But remember that this community only represents a tiny fraction of the overall player base.

I don't even neccessarily mean they should kowtow to every frivolus request.

As far as this conversation relates to such, however, pretty much everything that became an issue two years ago was pointed out by the testers beforehand, seemingly to no good effect.

17 minutes ago, Crucis said:

As for the skills rework, while I haven't done a close analysis of the various skills, I don't see anything major that bothers me.  Oh, I don't like a fair number of the new skill names.  The skill names that I don't like look like something a non-English speaker would call skills and appear completely dorky to me.

I displike change for its own sake; as well as needless complication. This change smacks of both.

20 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Furthermore, caving in to testers who wanted to keep the RTS type CVs would have gone against one of the primary goals of the CV rework, i.e. to increase the number of players playing carriers.  A goal that has clearly been attained.

Pretty much the only thing it did get right.

I honestly don't know what to say obout the skill gap issue with RTS.

Apparently, like my liking Emerald and hating Leander and et al; I'm a wierdo who wasn't screaminly good with RTS, but still prefer it over what we have now. (Probably in part because I sucked wind with manual attacks under RTS, and what we have now is pretty much 100% manual attacks.)

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20 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

I don't even necessarily mean they should kowtow to every frivolus request.

As far as this conversation relates to such, however, pretty much everything that became an issue two years ago was pointed out by the testers beforehand, seemingly to no good effect.

 

I dislike change for its own sake; as well as needless complication. This change smacks of both.

 

Pretty much the only thing it did get right.

I honestly don't know what to say about the skill gap issue with RTS.

Apparently, like my liking Emerald and hating Leander and et al; I'm a wierdo who wasn't screamingly good with RTS, but still prefer it over what we have now. (Probably in part because I sucked wind with manual attacks under RTS, and what we have now is pretty much 100% manual attacks.)

Regarding the skill gap, while there is and always would be a skill gap, skilled players don't have the ability to completely remove the enemy CV from the  game by strafing every attempted attack.  In theory, they could still attempt to remove enemy CVs from a battle by CV sniping, but that's usually more painful than it's worth with most CVs.  I will say that it is possible on some maps at high tiers, if you have the right BBs, for a CV to spot an enemy CV and for those BBs to long range snipe him to death.  (I did it with my Minnesota on Hotspot a little while back.  It was very amusing.)

I think that you and I have discussed this before.  I think that there were some (for lack of a better word) compromises to RTS CVs that the Devs could have tried to mitigate the identified issues.  Removing all manual attacks, i.e. strafing, torp, and dive bomb attacks would have been the most important thing they could have done.  But they didn't seem interested in a compromise rework, and just decided to dive straight into the deep end of the rework pool.

 

Regarding the RN CL line, I'm not a fan of the entire line.  I don't like the lack of HE.  I was grinding my Minotaur's UU over the past few weeks, and it was frustrating as hell to bounce so damned many shots, just because I didn't have a perfect broadside.  Heck, I'm honestly not a big fan of the Italian CA line either because I am very hit or miss when it comes to doing decent amounts of damage with their SAP.  I guess that I just prefer more traditional HE/AP ammo options on cruisers.

 

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1 hour ago, syraku said:

I'll take that Mikasa buff though.

Mikasa needs better accuracy for its ‘secondary’ battery! (coughthe12”gunscough.)

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5 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

I haven't heard of how the monetization will take effect.

Right now, it's 500 Doubs to move a captain, and 475 to reset a 19 pointer.

Will that 475 be x 4 for a complete reset?  Is it 500 per ship move x 4?

So I have 4) 19 point US captains.  For grinders, that would cover all 4 CVs, 4 BBs, 4 CAs, and 4 DDs with captain skills. 

What about Submarines?  Will there be a 5th set of points for them?

The real monetization is over exchanging ship xp to elite xp.

Since they added Admiral packs and the Missouri for free XP / Jean Bart for cash, they started testing how much whales will pay.

Then came the loot boxes for eveery event.

The last step was the Puerto Rico and ARP Yamato.

And the result: whales are going to pay a lot of stuff for convinience or getting stuff early.

I'm not suprised about this step. Just dumping a few $100 and you are done, why waste time with grinding. 

Anyway, I have still Halo 1-4 to play, Cyberpunk will come out next week, I'm busy with other games.

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6 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

So if this skill redo goes kablooey into a big blob of nasty green stuff that looks like a gorilla sneezed, there's an upside. Always has to be an upside. 

Imagine players get so disgusted about it they just stopped playing. Maybe a week, we'll say.

At the end of a week they might be jones'n for some WoWS but they think no! I've done a week, by golly I can do two! So they reach for some old games they haven't played for a long while because, well reasons. But primarily their old favorite was parked in favor of the WoWS game they are just sitting aside for one more week. 

Meanwhile, spreadsheets start tripping alarms as others like this one player do something similar. Maybe they spend more time with friends, with family, get some stuff done around the home, you know... actually do things in the physical world. Or they still need that dopa fix so they do indeed go back to their old game - or find a new one that delivers so much more of that sweet dopa.

Upside being we all have so many options available to us. Maybe, instead of just getting all cranked up about changes, it would seem, the majority of us did not want, we instead start looking for the upside. 

So I'm going to start the ball rolling for myself tonight. Hopefully you guys see less of me around here until things get really, really sorted out. In the picture of life, I have so much more to do that will bring more joy in the short and long run. Way too much time, too much time spent playing this game. 

May I suggest this might be a good time to take a look at your gaming habit as well. Maybe there's room for a bit of adjustment in your life too. 

My own WOWS time had already been in steady decline for various reasons. Taking a complete hiatus sounds like a good plan.

Being disabled, gaming is a big chunk of what pleasure is left to me, and my fave old MMORPG has a new expansion coming up. Time to dust off my old raid tank Shadowknight and polish up the trusty old zweihander. My old guild is still active, so maybe I'll spend the holidays smacking raid bosses with old friends instead of swatting bots in WOWS.

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Dunno. I am thinking I need to pull back on my gaming time as it is.  When this gets dumped out there, I'll probably spend a day just resetting all my captains and then sitting back and taking a look-see.  I really don't feel like having to go backwards and re-grind 2 points on my now elite commanders just to get back to where I am now.  But I'll just reset captains first (be nice if they'd give us a 'reset all' option when it drops) and then see what happens.  

But this is a MAJOR change to the game that has at best seen minimal testing.  And from what I've seen, it sounds like the input of the ST's has been largely ignored.  The 'mistake' WG said they wouldn't repeat after 8.0.  

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27 minutes ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

Dunno. I am thinking I need to pull back on my gaming time as it is.  When this gets dumped out there, I'll probably spend a day just resetting all my captains and then sitting back and taking a look-see.  I really don't feel like having to go backwards and re-grind 2 points on my now elite commanders just to get back to where I am now.  But I'll just reset captains first (be nice if they'd give us a 'reset all' option when it drops) and then see what happens.  

But this is a MAJOR change to the game that has at best seen minimal testing.  And from what I've seen, it sounds like the input of the ST's has been largely ignored.  The 'mistake' WG said they wouldn't repeat after 8.0.  

Your thinking and that of others in this thread really is the basis of where my thoughts were last night. It won't be an immediate, lights-out effort on my behalf, just more like weening a puppy :cap_haloween: because for some of us this game, with all its bloody flaws, is still fun. It is the strangest thing. Perhaps we think "if only" or "when they fix this" or other such thoughts because we really want the game to continue. 

As to the  "we're only a small percentage of the player base", yes, that's true. We are a very vocal but small base. We care about the game, strangely enough. We care so much we come here to tell them what players like ourselves enjoy or don't enjoy about the game. We want to help it grow, we probably want to see it get stronger, better in every way, from a player's perspective. 

Aircraft engineers - the good ones - have test pilots because why? Because whilst they know how to design and assemble aircraft, they rarely have the skill to find the aircraft's flaws like only a good test pilot can. Ignoring input from people paying to play your game - a GAME - is IMO an absolutely absurd way to build a game. 

We get very animated when our concerns are tossed into the circular file because those who could listen, don't. Those who could have failed to realize what an asset this small but vocal group of folks can be, how it can help them grow. I often think of it as them slaughtering the cash cow instead of tending to its every need. 

I visit Reddit every once in a while to get a sense of where the players over there are going. One individual posted player numbers were down over the last eight months by thirty-five percent, from Steam DB. I have not seen anything here to say that is not accurate; after all, we got bots dropped into randoms. Bots. Surely that does not indicate we have too many players wanting to play, does it? 

Myself, I'm starting a diet. Hate diets, doesn't everyone? But the diet I'm talking about, for me, is a reduction of gaming calories obtained from a constant diet of WoWS cookies. I went cold turkey for nearly six months and still came back. I figure a systemic reduction in daily intake will make it far easier to move on, because the cold turkey route is not much fun. Yea, too much sugar here, not enough in the way of solid food. 

I may speak only for myself, but the very long journey from what the game could have been to what it is today, to put it mildly, has been disappointing. I would have preferred it to have been more of a season pass type of game than what it has become. Problem for them, probably, was their season pass would have probably been outrageously expensive. So they do it more subtly. 

In my opinion, this skill redo "could" be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Time will tell us if time has the time to tell us. 

Oh and apologies for the diatribe. 

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5 hours ago, Crucis said:

Removing all manual attacks, i.e. strafing, torp, and dive bomb attacks would have been the most important thing they could have done.  But they didn't seem interested in a compromise rework

It might have let them tide things over for another little while, I'll grant you that, but IMHO it still wouldn't have solved the issue of the born-gifted people who can micromanage and multitask under pressure all over the map, nor the eternal spotting that multiple squadrons simultaneously aloft were capable of.

I used to think the way you're thinking now, but the longer I thought about it (and the more I suffered as a neophyte CV player at the hands of the more experienced), the more I realized WHY they chose to do things the way they did and the more I came to agree with it (on a broad-concept level).

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Go outside and clean up the yard. Rake leaves, Clean out flower beds, Take the dog for walks, Get some fresh air and sunshine.(I am in South Carolina still nice out) Reset yourself never mind the captains.

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11 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Aircraft engineers - the good ones - have test pilots because why? Because whilst they know how to design and assemble aircraft, they rarely have the skill to find the aircraft's flaws like only a good test pilot can. Ignoring input from people paying to play your game - a GAME - is IMO an absolutely absurd way to build a game. 

The troubling aspect of this is, early on in that Flamu feature length diatribe (he REALLY needs to do a TLDR of that, I could only take about 10 minutes) was where he early on said "this hasn't been tested".  I'm pretty sure if there were a ST of this (after WG "listened to" ignored feedback) he of all people would know about it.  Much less taken part.  This entire thing seems even more hasty and less thought out than the CV rebork.  

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Well, I am patiently awaiting the Mass Effect Remaster.  When that drops, there will be very little time for pixel boats.  I have enjoyed the game, but, I grow weary of thke constant trend towards it becoming a kiddie ride at the amusement park that is over too quickly...

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12 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

So if this skill redo goes kablooey into a big blob of nasty green stuff that looks like a gorilla sneezed, there's an upside. Always has to be an upside. 

Imagine players get so disgusted about it they just stopped playing. Maybe a week, we'll say.

At the end of a week they might be jones'n for some WoWS but they think no! I've done a week, by golly I can do two! So they reach for some old games they haven't played for a long while because, well reasons. But primarily their old favorite was parked in favor of the WoWS game they are just sitting aside for one more week. 

Meanwhile, spreadsheets start tripping alarms as others like this one player do something similar. Maybe they spend more time with friends, with family, get some stuff done around the home, you know... actually do things in the physical world. Or they still need that dopa fix so they do indeed go back to their old game - or find a new one that delivers so much more of that sweet dopa.

Upside being we all have so many options available to us. Maybe, instead of just getting all cranked up about changes, it would seem, the majority of us did not want, we instead start looking for the upside. 

So I'm going to start the ball rolling for myself tonight. Hopefully you guys see less of me around here until things get really, really sorted out. In the picture of life, I have so much more to do that will bring more joy in the short and long run. Way too much time, too much time spent playing this game. 

May I suggest this might be a good time to take a look at your gaming habit as well. Maybe there's room for a bit of adjustment in your life too. 

Stay off wows social media for a week and simply play. You’ll find the experience much more enjoyable 

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