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amoncz

WG skill rework will nerf german BB's into oblivion

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with secondary accuracy nerf from 60% to 35%. There we go again with completely stupid ideas. This whole game starts to be joke.

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The EU stream a few weeks ago, when the skill rework was announced, had some WG devs on and one of them said the single best thing about the rework was the “buff” to secondary spec BBs :cap_wander_2:   Truly, the devs do not play this game.

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Everyone's getting nerfed.

 

Except CVs. CVs are getting enormously buffed both in raw damage and in AA mitigation. 

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11 minutes ago, ramp4ge said:

Everyone's getting nerfed.

 

Except CVs. CVs are getting enormously buffed both in raw damage and in AA mitigation. 

tell me more!

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If you think German BBs are getting nerfed, you should take a look at what's happening to cruisers across the board, and doubly so to small-gun cruisers and supercruisers. 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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Secondary specs are likely to be the biggest beneficiaries of the rework.

You will be able to effectively take a full survivability build, while also taking all the secondary talents. This will massively increase the power of a secondary spec BB - no longer will they have to choose between secondaries and survivability.

So, compared to a secondary spec now, you will lose some accuracy from Manual Fire Control. You will gain Survivability Expert for -15% module repair and fire/flooding duration, Concealment Expert for -10% spotting range, and Fire Prevention for only three possible fires and -10% fire chance. You will also gain the ability for your secondaries to fire on undesignated targets as well as your designated sec target, and secondary ranges are being buffed across the board.

Frankly, with how much more secondary BB's are getting than any other ship type, it wouldn't surprise me if they apply a few nerfs to rein them in.

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11 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Secondary specs are likely to be the biggest beneficiaries of the rework.

You will be able to effectively take a full survivability build, while also taking all the secondary talents. This will massively increase the power of a secondary spec BB - no longer will they have to choose between secondaries and survivability.

So, compared to a secondary spec now, you will lose some accuracy from Manual Fire Control. You will gain Survivability Expert for -15% module repair and fire/flooding duration, Concealment Expert for -10% spotting range, and Fire Prevention for only three possible fires and -10% fire chance. You will also gain the ability for your secondaries to fire on undesignated targets as well as your designated sec target, and secondary ranges are being buffed across the board.

Frankly, with how much more secondary BB's are getting than any other ship type, it wouldn't surprise me if they apply a few nerfs to rein them in.

I don't think you quite understand what you are saying.

Base german accuracy is trash. The reason you could hit something is because of the sheer number of shells fired combined with massive buff to dispersion for manual fire. Without this buff, you eventually would hit a BB once in a blue moon. Now you won't hit anyone, with and without manual fire. You will be firing shells left and right like an idiot but won't actually deal any damage. 

As for the other skills, you are losing on some stuff, like the combined buff to AA and secondaries. Now you buff only secondaries or AA, not both at the same time. A hybrid build would take some survival before anyway. I don't know what you are advertising that didn't happen before.

I suppose the premium USN BBs could benefit, as they have improved accuracy already and some loss of dispersion could actually be a good thing for them, but I highly suspect this "rework" was designed with premium ships in mind.

Edited by WarStore
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32 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I don't take Manual Secondaries, and on some of my German ships 10% of my KILLS are from the secondaries.  

Can't recall any recent examples, but in the past, I've had issues with ManSec not even working, as in, even with a designated target, the secondoaries wouldn't fire; even after turning them off, then on again.

Prefer that they can fire all the time anyway.

This is effectively a major rework, certainly to a greater extent than the last skill rework.

WG's success rate with major reworks is pretty poor...

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3 hours ago, amoncz said:

with secondary accuracy nerf from 60% to 35%. There we go again with completely stupid ideas. This whole game starts to be joke.

Actually, this is going to make ships like the Massachusetts even more powerful brawlers against BBs and CA/CLs because as it now stands the 60% reduction is a bit too much. Secondaries fire at the waterline and the center of the ship so if you are too close the shells  mostly just shatter on the hull plating. What this will do, however, is make secondaries worse for DDs. Yet another hidden buff to DDs.

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3 hours ago, amoncz said:

with secondary accuracy nerf from 60% to 35%. There we go again with completely stupid ideas. This whole game starts to be joke.

You're forgetting that ManSec will allow your secs to engage ALL enemy ships in your sec range.  Man sec will allow you to get a 35% buff to a single target.  That seems like a GREAT idea to me!!!  No more getting boned if you forget to select a target when you have ManSec.  If you forget, your secs will still engage enemies in range, just not with the accuracy bonus for a selected enemy.

 

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3 hours ago, MrSparkle said:

It's a buff to Mikasa :Smile_trollface:

Arguably, it's a buff to all tier 6 and below BBs (if they take this skill).

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3 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

If you think German BBs are getting nerfed, you should take a look at what's happening to cruisers across the board to cruisers, and doubly so to small-gun cruisers and supercruisers. 

 

 

      Nobody cares about cruisers, first ifhe nerf now AA nerf. Gotta keep those BB targets though

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4 hours ago, amoncz said:

WG skill rework will nerf german BB's into oblivion

Because, obviously, the only value that German BBs have is their secondaries...

4 hours ago, FrodoFraggin said:

The EU stream a few weeks ago, when the skill rework was announced, had some WG devs on and one of them said the single best thing about the rework was the “buff” to secondary spec BBs :cap_wander_2:   Truly, the devs do not play this game.

You miss half the change to what is now MFCSA.  Yes, the dispersion goes down, but secondaries that cannot target the primary can shoot at something else where as before they couldn't fire at all.  And without a designated primary, everybody shoots where they wouldn't.  Is the exchange a net gain?  Perhaps not.  But it's not nearly such a nerf as y'all make out.

46 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Actually, this is going to make ships like the Massachusetts even more powerful brawlers against BBs and CA/CLs because as it now stands the 60% reduction is a bit too much. Secondaries fire at the waterline and the center of the ship so if you are too close the shells  mostly just shatter on the hull plating. What this will do, however, is make secondaries worse for DDs. Yet another hidden buff to DDs.

Good points.

Edited by iDuckman

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2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Because, obviously, the only value that German BBs have is their secondaries...

You miss half the change to what is now MFCSA.  Yes, the dispersion goes down, but secondaries that cannot target the primary can shoot at something else where as before they couldn't fire at all.  And without a designated primary, everybody shoots where they wouldn't.  Is the exchange a net gain?  Perhaps not.  But it's not nearly such a nerf as y'all make out.

Good points.

I'd say the ability to actually deal damage is a pretty massive nerf. 

If WG buff the dispersion to Georgia's levels, then it could be a net gain. But we know that won't happen.

If they nerf indeed german BB, I'll drop this game.

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7 hours ago, iDuckman said:

You miss half the change to what is now MFCSA.  Yes, the dispersion goes down, but secondaries that cannot target the primary can shoot at something else where as before they couldn't fire at all.  And without a designated primary, everybody shoots where they wouldn't.  Is the exchange a net gain?  Perhaps not.  But it's not nearly such a nerf as y'all make out.

Secondaries miss more targets more often... yay :cap_old:

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12 hours ago, ramp4ge said:

Everyone's getting nerfed.

 

Except CVs. CVs are getting enormously buffed both in raw damage and in AA mitigation. 

No kidding.

The secondary changes are nothing compared to Flying Shimakaze v2.0

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13 minutes ago, Kaigun_Chusa said:

No kidding.

The secondary changes are nothing compared to Flying Shimakaze v2.0

B.O.H.I.C.A. time!:Smile_teethhappy:

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13 hours ago, iDuckman said:

You miss half the change to what is now MFCSA.  Yes, the dispersion goes down, but secondaries that cannot target the primary can shoot at something else where as before they couldn't fire at all.  And without a designated primary, everybody shoots where they wouldn't.  Is the exchange a net gain?  Perhaps not.  But it's not nearly such a nerf as y'all make out.

This tradeoff will only be useful for co-op games. Not random battles. Getting your ship in the middle of 2 or more enemy ships in randoms is not something you want to do in most circumstances.

So I still don't see the point because when I choose to brawl, I usually make sure I approach one ship and don't get flanked by other enemy units. Sometimes, I might get surprised during the manoeuvre by a fast ship that gets out of nowhere, generally a DD, true.... But it doesn't happen enough to compensate for the lack of 1vs1 damage output. Then, there are the supper rare occurrences where one of the ship might be super low health so I might want to deliberately push against more than 1 ship at once but again, this is rare. 

So the exchange should amount to a net loss for people who use secondary builds in random battles. But WG thought about it and they are providing the skill "Armement Reload Expert" to compensate. Where we would get BFT for 10% secondaries reload boost, we will now get a boost on main battery as well, as long as a ship is within range of secondary armement. Once you mitigated the MCS nerf with this, you might actually get more damage in the end, especially against larger, well armored targets where some of the secondaries are unable to penetrate the armor anyways.

Edited by Mr_Argamas
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20 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Because, obviously, the only value that German BBs have is their secondaries...

The dispersion on German BB mains is so bad that they're useless past 14 KM and now with this secondary nerf, they're absolutely worthless at T10 matches where the current meta is standoff distance and sniping due to broken HE mechanics and blatantly OP ships like the thunderer and slava dictating that kind of engagement. The only thing they bring to the table now is turtleback armor scheme, but as I stated, that's useless because the current meta is standoff distance and not close range brawling. Ships that spam HE and can set 2+ fires in one salvo don't care how much armor you have, and neither do DDs with sub 7km detection range with 15-20km torpedoes. Getting into range where you can actually USE German BB advantages is a death sentence at T10. Ships like the Pommern, GK, and FDG are worthless now unless WG heavily buffs their secondary armaments to be equally as accurate as American secondaries, but we all know that will never happen. WG somehow thinks this update is a buff, and just lmbo at that. 

 

21 hours ago, Crucis said:

You're forgetting that ManSec will allow your secs to engage ALL enemy ships in your sec range.  Man sec will allow you to get a 35% buff to a single target.  That seems like a GREAT idea to me!!!  No more getting boned if you forget to select a target when you have ManSec.  If you forget, your secs will still engage enemies in range, just not with the accuracy bonus for a selected enemy.

 

Secondaries engaging multiple targets is only a small benefit that's worthless in the end because if you're ever in a position where you legitimately need to take advantage of that, most likely you'll be sunk in less than 2 minutes. Your secondaries firing without you designating a target is the only nice feature, but that's also a superficial benefit when you can just simply be paying attention to your minimap and practicing good situational awareness. 

Edited by SatThuVoBui
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2 minutes ago, SatThuVoBui said:

The dispersion on German BB mains is so bad that they're useless past 14 KM and now with this secondary nerf, they're absolutely worthless at T10 matches where the current meta is standoff distance and sniping due to broken HE mechanics and blatantly OP ships like the thunderer and slava dictating that kind of engagement. The only thing they bring to the table now is turtleback armor scheme, but as I stated, that's useless because the current meta is standoff distance and not close range brawling. Ships that spam HE and can set 2+ fires in one salvo don't care how much armor you have, and neither do DDs with sub 7km detection range with 15-20km torpedoes. Getting into range where you can actually USE German BB advantages is a death sentence at T10. Ships like the Pommern, GK, and FDG are worthless now unless WG heavily buffs their secondary armaments to be equally as accurate as American secondaries, but we all know that will never happen. WG somehow thinks this update is a buff, and just lmbo at that. 

 

Secondaries engaging multiple targets is only a small benefit that's worthless in the end because if you're ever in a position where you legitimately need to take advantage of that, most likely you'll be sunk in less than 2 minutes. Your secondaries firing without you designating a target is the only nice feature, but that's also a superficial benefit when you can just simply be paying attention to your minimap and practicing good situational awareness. 

Funny thing is that even before WG buffed German BBs to use the RN/USN BB Dispersion model, Bismarck did better than North Carolina and FDG better than Iowa.

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I completely agree with what Mr_Argamas said above, and I strongly feel that sentiment is reflected by the majority, if not all, German BB mains who've actually had to brawl in recent matches. The number of times it's a good idea to brawl against more than one enemy you can count on your fingers. In 99.9% of cases, brawling with multiple opponents means you've messed up terribly, you're right about to pay for it, and you'll be lucky to survive at all. 

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