150 [KSC] maldino2dc Members 66 posts 22,618 battles Report post #1 Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) Edit: Since these charts were first posted, WG released an updated table of the captain skills. I have left the old charts at the bottom of the post for comparison purposes. Apologies for the confusion. ---- As the topic of the captain skill rework is back in the headlines, I would like to offer feedback on the new skill trees. I am not concerned with the individual balance of the skills (though there is likely much to be tweaked), I am instead concerned with the overall layout of the trees and how the skills are distributed for each 'category' of a ships performance. In order to make the distribution easier to read, I assigned various colors to each category. -Destroyers- Feedback: - The main critique of this tree is that the individual lines do not follow a logical progression. E.g. if a player sees torpedo skills for levels 1-3, then it would make sense for the level 4 skill to also be torpedo focused. - The top end of the skill tree is dominated by damage and vision control skills. While these are obviously valuable, it would be nice to see a 4pt. Consumables or Torpedo skill. -Cruisers- Feedback: - Once again, the individual lines do not follow a logical progression. - There are very many skills that focus on damage dealing, either through shell upgrades or main battery or torpedo upgrades. The high end of the skill tree features no powerful bonuses for Consumables or Survivability. - The overall trend of this tree is to push cruisers away from their role as a support class and towards pure damage output. This is in my opinion, not a healthy direction to push cruisers in. - EDIT: the addition of Last Stand is very welcome. -Battleships- Feedback: - Although this tree is perhaps the most mature of the four, it is still frustrating that each category of skills is not carried to its conclusion. e.g. a 4pt. anti-aircraft skill would be very logical and welcome. - Given the enormous shells that battleships fire, the shell quality upgrades feel insignificant. Pyrotechnist, Threshing and Armor Piercing don't accomplish much. In exchange, we could consider low cost skills to boost other aspects of the BBs role. -Aircraft Carriers- Feedback: - The addition of several skills to boost combat air patrol (fighters) is certainly a welcome one. - A large number of skills seem to be aimed at boosting plane speed. I'm not sure if so much of a focus is the correct approach. - The main concern is that there aren't many skills that boost the abilities of the CV hull itself. This limits the CV to only the abilities of the airplanes, which limits the possibilities of the player. CV players should be encouraged to use their hulls in a team-oriented manner. -Overall- The captain skill rework shows some promise, but it is held back by an overall lack of top-level cohesion. There should be a logical and balanced distribution of skills to boost different aspects of a ship's performance, and there should be an easily understandable increase in potency as the player moves from one level to the next. I hope by color coding the skills in this manner, we can see areas where too many skills exist, and others where we could urgently need new ones. ---- Version 1 (old) Skill trees: Edited November 30, 2020 by torino2dc 12 25 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,043 [WOLFG] DrHolmes52 Members 11,188 posts 10,423 battles Report post #2 Posted November 30, 2020 +1 just for color coding the skills. And putting out a better table than is in the dev blog. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,347 [S0L0] iRA6E [S0L0] Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters 4,740 posts 7,281 battles Report post #3 Posted November 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said: +1 just for color coding the skills. And putting out a better table than is in the dev blog. No kidding.... +1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,732 Elo_J_Fudpucker Members 2,391 posts 13,906 battles Report post #4 Posted November 30, 2020 32 minutes ago, torino2dc said: I would like to offer feedback Thank you for all the effort... it will be ignored. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,474 [REVY] Sventex Members 8,164 posts 6,118 battles Report post #5 Posted November 30, 2020 Oh wait, DDs don't get IFHE? I just got the Akizuki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,043 [WOLFG] DrHolmes52 Members 11,188 posts 10,423 battles Report post #6 Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Sventex said: Oh wait, DDs don't get IFHE? I just got the Akizuki. Threshing (3pt skill) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,474 [REVY] Sventex Members 8,164 posts 6,118 battles Report post #7 Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, DrHolmes52 said: Threshing (3pt skill) Oh, thank you for pointing that out. The new skill names are really throwing me off. I've been playing this game too long. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,863 [DEV_X] Skuggsja Alpha Tester 2,560 posts 25,411 battles Report post #8 Posted November 30, 2020 Excellent write up and visuals. Also, really good points being made. And a question I'd you happen to know, does the new secondary skill increase accuracy at all tiers or is it still split where it's less accurate at Tier 6 and below? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
150 [KSC] maldino2dc Members 66 posts 22,618 battles Report post #9 Posted November 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sventex said: The new skill names are really throwing me off Most of the names we're used to will remain. The reason they're different in the above graphic is because the devblog spreadsheet translated them directly from Russian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,194 [DVYJC] RainbowFartingUnicorn Members 3,672 posts 8,784 battles Report post #10 Posted November 30, 2020 The names of the new skills are almost universally terrible and/or illogical and/or meaningless in English. I suspect they are translating poorly from Russian. "Threshing"? The other thing we are seeing is that all the feedback asking "WHAT DO SECONDARY-BUILD SIEGFRIED/GRAF ZEPPELIN" was roundly ignored or at least unaddressed, as was the question regarding the effective massive nerf to cruisers with destroyer-caliber guns. These are I believe the overarching issues, because a fair number of ships, including many premiums, were sold under the old system and will be rendered ineffective under the new one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,084 [-K-] Edgecase [-K-] Members 5,583 posts 21,058 battles Report post #11 Posted November 30, 2020 Seeing it in graphic format helped me to notice that WG seems to have imposed a really arbitrary constraint on themselves that there be an equal number of choices at each point tier. I wonder if we'd get better build diversity with "inverted pyramid" skill availability: more 1- and 2-point options even if it means fewer 4-pointers. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
606 [PEED2] Merc85 Beta Testers 2,086 posts 27,722 battles Report post #12 Posted November 30, 2020 torino, your color coded charts are excellent and for me a big help to "see" what is going on and what the options will be. Well done. +1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,270 Hunter_Steel ∞ Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters 4,179 posts 4,381 battles Report post #13 Posted November 30, 2020 The lack of Secondaries based skills for Cruisers means that any hope I had for getting either the Aegir or the Siegfried is gone now, since they have decent secondaries and the secondaries are part of their fun builds. Not being allowed to use them is actually a nerf to the ship. WG should fix that. This highlights why Supercruisers and Battlecruisers should be in their own classification. The lack of a T4 Torpedo skill means that a dedicated torpedo build for my Shimakaze is out the window. ~Hunter 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,112 [TARK] Daniel_Allan_Clark Members 7,331 posts 2,839 battles Report post #14 Posted November 30, 2020 Im disappointed to see that the aircraft carrier fighter patrol skills remain absolutely useless...despite the detailed feedback about why they dont work from the previous iteration. No one will take them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,173 [SBS] Slimeball91 Members 6,129 posts Report post #15 Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said: The lack of a T4 Torpedo skill means that a dedicated torpedo build for my Shimakaze is out the window. There isn't a T4 torp skill now, so what will change? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,474 [REVY] Sventex Members 8,164 posts 6,118 battles Report post #16 Posted November 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said: There isn't a T4 torp skill now, so what will change? Arguably Concealment Expert is the greatest T4 torpedo skill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,112 [TARK] Daniel_Allan_Clark Members 7,331 posts 2,839 battles Report post #17 Posted November 30, 2020 Also, the required build to have planes be useful...BEFORE damage buffs is 17 points... Aircraft mechanic - 1 Engine expert - 2 Enduring - 3 Aircraft Engineer - 3 Senior aircraft engineer - 4 Navigator-bombardier - 4 That leaves only 4 points for any other skills you want to improve damage or your hull. The meta is going to be pretty boring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
130 SoothingWhaleSongEU Members 333 posts 25 battles Report post #18 Posted November 30, 2020 Thanks torino2dc, vastly easier to read. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,464 [BNKR] CaptainKaitoGhost [BNKR] Members 2,781 posts 2,653 battles Report post #19 Posted November 30, 2020 You're missing the cruiser Last Stand skill, I believe? I think it replaces the tier 1 AA skill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,999 [GOB] Col_Nasty Members 2,513 posts Report post #20 Posted November 30, 2020 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
956 [CK5] PrairiePlayer Members 1,496 posts 15,908 battles Report post #21 Posted November 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said: You're missing the cruiser Last Stand skill, I believe? I think it replaces the tier 1 AA skill. Cruisers don't get Last Stand under the re-work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,043 [WOLFG] DrHolmes52 Members 11,188 posts 10,423 battles Report post #22 Posted November 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, PrairiePlayer said: Cruisers don't get Last Stand under the re-work. They changed out the 1 pt AA skill on cruisers with propulsive. Commander skills_ matrix - Google Sheets.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,043 [PHD] WarStore Members 1,126 posts 6,083 battles Report post #23 Posted November 30, 2020 It seems secondary BBs are getting the short end of the stick.... again This rework requires a ton of points to make the secondaries worse than they currently are, neglecting survivability, while other types of BBs can have some customization to improve their key areas. Too many high cost skills for secondaries, and that nerf to dispersion, ugh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 [FDR] lychondy [FDR] Members 5 posts 6,633 battles Report post #24 Posted November 30, 2020 The lack of a true AFT replacement on cruisers is a pretty big hit the small caliber cruisers like Atlanta. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9,751 [CMFRT] KilljoyCutter [CMFRT] Banned 16,985 posts Report post #25 Posted November 30, 2020 So they're still determined to ruin "fringe" cruisers? Great. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
