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maldino2dc

ST 0.10.0 Captain Skill Rework: Feedback

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Edit: Since these charts were first posted, WG released an updated table of the captain skills. I have left the old charts at the bottom of the post for comparison purposes. Apologies for the confusion.

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As the topic of the captain skill rework is back in the headlines, I would like to offer feedback on the new skill trees. I am not concerned with the individual balance of the skills (though there is likely much to be tweaked), I am instead concerned with the overall layout of the trees and how the skills are distributed for each 'category' of a ships performance. In order to make the distribution easier to read, I assigned various colors to each category.

-Destroyers-

image.thumb.png.11216503f1ac4218a6956e4211d2104a.png

Feedback:

- The main critique of this tree is that the individual lines do not follow a logical progression. E.g. if a player sees torpedo skills for levels 1-3, then it would make sense for the level 4 skill to also be torpedo focused.

- The top end of the skill tree is dominated by damage and vision control skills. While these are obviously valuable, it would be nice to see a 4pt. Consumables or Torpedo skill. 

-Cruisers-

image.thumb.png.3bdcfe67b4ab4dce17b5fa5935dec483.png

 

Feedback:

- Once again, the individual lines do not follow a logical progression. 

- There are very many skills that focus on damage dealing, either through shell upgrades or main battery or torpedo upgrades. The high end of the skill tree features no powerful bonuses for Consumables or Survivability. 

- The overall trend of this tree is to push cruisers away from their role as a support class and towards pure damage output. This is in my opinion, not a healthy direction to push cruisers in.

- EDIT: the addition of Last Stand is very welcome.

-Battleships-

image.thumb.png.47f54d37a54acdfa49502269b0a3b417.png

Feedback:

- Although this tree is perhaps the most mature of the four, it is still frustrating that each category of skills is not carried to its conclusion. e.g. a 4pt. anti-aircraft skill would be very logical and welcome.

- Given the enormous shells that battleships fire, the shell quality upgrades feel insignificant. Pyrotechnist, Threshing and Armor Piercing don't accomplish much. In exchange, we could consider low cost skills to boost other aspects of the BBs role.

-Aircraft Carriers-

image.thumb.png.46de93ee3187a45a5c1ac0687dcb237a.png

Feedback:

- The addition of several skills to boost combat air patrol (fighters) is certainly a welcome one. 

- A large number of skills seem to be aimed at boosting plane speed. I'm not sure if so much of a focus is the correct approach.

- The main concern is that there aren't many skills that boost the abilities of the CV hull itself. This limits the CV to only the abilities of the airplanes, which limits the possibilities of the player. CV players should be encouraged to use their hulls in a team-oriented manner.  

-Overall-

The captain skill rework shows some promise, but it is held back by an overall lack of top-level cohesion. There should be a logical and balanced distribution of skills to boost different aspects of a ship's performance, and there should be an easily understandable increase in potency as the player moves from one level to the next. I hope by color coding the skills in this manner, we can see areas where too many skills exist, and others where we could urgently need new ones.

 

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Version 1 (old) Skill trees:

image.thumb.png.fd475c77d2d4797416285adf2c2ba476.pngimage.thumb.png.f9a215b3880266df45033f8db26a6402.pngimage.thumb.png.238ff3b4a1b88bb223af4cf8a030c365.pngimage.thumb.png.0dea6542ad6ad9ca86be36a65b46f9b4.png

image.png

Edited by torino2dc
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7 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

+1 just for color coding the skills.

And putting out a better table than is in the dev blog.

No kidding....     +1

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Oh wait, DDs don't get IFHE?  I just got the Akizuki.

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1 minute ago, Sventex said:

Oh wait, DDs don't get IFHE?  I just got the Akizuki.

Threshing (3pt skill)

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Just now, DrHolmes52 said:

Threshing (3pt skill)

Oh, thank you for pointing that out.  The new skill names are really throwing me off.  I've been playing this game too long.

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Excellent write up and visuals. 

Also, really good points being made.

And a question I'd you happen to know, does the new secondary skill increase accuracy at all tiers or is it still split where it's less accurate at Tier 6 and below?

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7 minutes ago, Sventex said:

The new skill names are really throwing me off

Most of the names we're used to will remain. The reason they're different in the above graphic is because the devblog spreadsheet translated them directly from Russian. 

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The names of the new skills are almost universally terrible and/or illogical and/or meaningless in English. I suspect they are translating poorly from Russian. "Threshing"?

The other thing we are seeing is that all the feedback asking "WHAT DO SECONDARY-BUILD SIEGFRIED/GRAF ZEPPELIN" was roundly ignored or at least unaddressed, as was the question regarding the effective massive nerf to cruisers with destroyer-caliber guns. These are I believe the overarching issues, because a fair number of ships, including many premiums, were sold under the old system and will be rendered ineffective under the new one.

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Seeing it in graphic format helped me to notice that WG seems to have imposed a really arbitrary constraint on themselves that there be an equal number of choices at each point tier. I wonder if we'd get better build diversity with "inverted pyramid" skill availability: more 1- and 2-point options even if it means fewer 4-pointers.

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torino, your color coded charts are excellent and for me a big help to "see" what is going on and what the options will be.  Well done.  +1

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The lack of Secondaries based skills for Cruisers means that any hope I had for getting either the Aegir or the Siegfried is gone now, since they have decent secondaries and the secondaries are part of their fun builds. Not being allowed to use them is actually a nerf to the ship. WG should fix that. This highlights why Supercruisers and Battlecruisers should be in their own classification.

The lack of a T4 Torpedo skill means that a dedicated torpedo build for my Shimakaze is out the window.

~Hunter

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Im disappointed to see that the aircraft carrier fighter patrol skills remain absolutely useless...despite the detailed feedback about why they dont work from the previous iteration.

No one will take them.

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11 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

The lack of a T4 Torpedo skill means that a dedicated torpedo build for my Shimakaze is out the window.

There isn't a T4 torp skill now, so what will change?

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5 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

There isn't a T4 torp skill now, so what will change?

Arguably Concealment Expert is the greatest T4 torpedo skill.

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Also, the required build to have planes be useful...BEFORE damage buffs is 17 points...

Aircraft mechanic - 1

Engine expert - 2

Enduring - 3

Aircraft Engineer - 3

Senior aircraft engineer - 4

Navigator-bombardier - 4

That leaves only 4 points for any other skills you want to improve damage or your hull.

The meta is going to be pretty boring.

 

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20 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

You're missing the cruiser Last Stand skill, I believe?  I think it replaces the tier 1 AA skill.

Cruisers don't get Last Stand under the re-work. 

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It seems secondary BBs are getting the short end of the stick.... again

This rework requires a ton of points to make the secondaries worse than they currently are, neglecting survivability, while other types of BBs can have some customization to improve their key areas. Too many high cost skills for secondaries, and that nerf to dispersion, ugh.

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The lack of a true AFT replacement on cruisers is a pretty big hit the small caliber cruisers like Atlanta.   

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