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Hukom

Work in Progress — New Skill System

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I read the new DevBlog post on this (https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/104), and along with the changes in the commanders skills (which can be a thoroughly debated topic in the coming weeks), the following low-hanging fruits are there:

  • With the release of update 0.10.0, for the duration of the update, you will be able to reset commander skills for free, and the retraining cost in doubloons will be discounted by 50%
  • Your commander skills will be automatically redistributed to be as close to your previous build as possible. If you are not satisfied with your automatically picked skills, you will be able to redistribute the skills for free for the entire update 0.10.0
  • We are also planning to increase the base secondary battery firing range for some battleships in the future.

Wishlist:

1) Remove the retraining penalty if a commander is moved to a different ship type (e.g., tech-tree BB to a tech-tree DD). This is in the FAQ:

If I transfer the commander from a tech-tree battleship to a tech-tree destroyer, will I have to undergo retraining?
Yes, the commander will have to undergo retraining in order to be transferred to a different tech-tree ship.

2) Increase base secondary firing range of many—not some—battleships. Brawling can be fun. This is in the FAQ:

We are also planning to increase the base secondary battery firing range for some battleships in the future.

3) Reduce—or even remove—the cost in Doubloons for the duration of Update 0.10.0. Why penalize or monetize players during the transition phase? FAQ states that:

Retraining cost in doubloons will be discounted by 50%.

 

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1 minute ago, Hukom said:

3) Reduce—or even remove—the cost in Doubloons for the duration of Update 0.10.0. Why penalize or monetize players during the transition phase? FAQ states that:

Retraining cost in doubloons will be discounted by 50%.

 

The free respec is so that you can try out the new skill combinations on your ship at no cost until you decide what the best combination is. It is not so you can move your commanders around to new ships for free. They are giving you something for free and discounting something else, yet you want even more stuff for free?

image.png.e28b890d507c90653d0b45eb4fc548ce.png

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1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

The free respec is so that you can try out the new skill combinations on your ship at no cost until you decide what the best combination is. It is not so you can move your commanders around to new ships for free. They are giving you something for free and discounting something else, yet you want even more stuff for free?

Why not? The changes Wargaming is testing and will introduce to this part of the game are quite sweeping. 

 

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But from first quick look, it still appears the cruisers at both ends of the spectrum (super-cruisers and cruisers with DD caliber guns) are still getting shafted.  Have to look at it more.  

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6 minutes ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

But from first quick look, it still appears the cruisers at both ends of the spectrum (super-cruisers and cruisers with DD caliber guns) are still getting shafted.  Have to look at it more.  

More or less. Officially, WG feels that's fine, since both sets of ships are getting other skills that can boost their attack potential to make up for the loss of AFT/BFT for DD caliber cruisers and the significant survival nerf to all large cruisers (and the double nerf to Siegfried of no survival skills AND no secondary build). At least cruisers are getting Last Stand back for the few lines (especially the French and Japanese) that really need it.

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1 hour ago, Hukom said:

I read the new DevBlog post on this (https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/104), and along with the changes in the commanders skills (which can be a thoroughly debated topic in the coming weeks), the following low-hanging fruits are there:

  • With the release of update 0.10.0, for the duration of the update, you will be able to reset commander skills for free, and the retraining cost in doubloons will be discounted by 50%
  • Your commander skills will be automatically redistributed to be as close to your previous build as possible. If you are not satisfied with your automatically picked skills, you will be able to redistribute the skills for free for the entire update 0.10.0
  • We are also planning to increase the base secondary battery firing range for some battleships in the future.

Wishlist:

1) Remove the retraining penalty if a commander is moved to a different ship type (e.g., tech-tree BB to a tech-tree DD). This is in the FAQ:

If I transfer the commander from a tech-tree battleship to a tech-tree destroyer, will I have to undergo retraining?
Yes, the commander will have to undergo retraining in order to be transferred to a different tech-tree ship.

2) Increase base secondary firing range of many—not some—battleships. Brawling can be fun. This is in the FAQ:

We are also planning to increase the base secondary battery firing range for some battleships in the future.

3) Reduce—or even remove—the cost in Doubloons for the duration of Update 0.10.0. Why penalize or monetize players during the transition phase? FAQ states that:

Retraining cost in doubloons will be discounted by 50%.

 

 

1 will never happen. Thats part of the monetization scheme of the game. Its what makes premiums enticing: the ability for them to take captains without retraining. Youre always going to have to pay for retraining to move a captain between tech tree ships.

 

2. Its too early to worry about the wording here. They could mean all BBs that are used as secondary brawlers currently.

 

3. Resetting skills is already going to be free during 0.10.0, its just retraining (ie moving captains between tech tree ships) that wont be, so this is a non-issue for the most part.

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1. It's funny that the cruiser concealment skill is unchanged, despite it being considered a must-have for all cruisers. I thought they were nerfing the must-haves?

2. I'm glad to see that there's an HE damage skill there to partially offset the lost fire chance from DE.

3. It's odd that the AP cruiser skill bottoms out at 190mm - sorry 180mm RU guys...

4. I'll also note that the split HE/AP cruiser skills are a direct nerf to 8" gun cruisers that need to switch back and forth, so we will want/need both skills, where CLs and large cruisers can sit on one shell type.

In summary, I'm not seeing a lot of potential variation here for cruisers... for me it would be (1) Loader; (2) Pyro; (2) Argus; (3) Demo; (3) AP; (3) Adrenaline; (3) Provident; (4) Conceal. Maybe I would have a question of Loader or Gunner for the (1) skill, but that's it. "Threshing" (the old IFHE) is not changed and still seems too severe of a fire nerf to be broadly useful, especially with the fire chance skill getting it's own nerf.

Edited by Whiskey_Rebel

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

The free respec is so that you can try out the new skill combinations on your ship at no cost until you decide what the best combination is. It is not so you can move your commanders around to new ships for free. They are giving you something for free and discounting something else, yet you want even more stuff for free?

Yes.  They are reformatting our "earned value".......  Our investment in their game.  Without us, there is no game.  We owe them nothing.  They can't exist without us. 

We didn't ask for this change.  They are "forcing it on us...."  OK, they have every right to do that, it's their game !  But, a first world corporation would never do that.............ever.  And, I've seen some pretty drastic changes in small niche corporations whose first thought was "let them eat cake...."   Until, those of us showed that studied "systems change" showed them a better way to "manage change to everyone's benefit and not alienate the client base..."  Good grief.

You only have integrity once.......it can not be replaced nor quickly restored...   Our host has been beating the client base over the head since Update 8.0 and thousands have left the game........there was a 'learning experience' they missed I suspect. 

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

The free respec is so that you can try out the new skill combinations on your ship at no cost until you decide what the best combination is. It is not so you can move your commanders around to new ships for free. They are giving you something for free and discounting something else, yet you want even more stuff for free?

image.png.e28b890d507c90653d0b45eb4fc548ce.png

All your 19 point commanders have to be grinded yet again for god knows how much ECXP.

I'd say WG owes more than free respecs in this specific case.

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When they need a spreadsheet to list all the skills they have failed.

 They should have simplified the captain skills and the easiest means would have to have more tiers of skills and allow only one choice in each tier. Each tier would have to be related in some way to each other and each column should also follow a theme. However this system practically begs for an Excel spreadsheet optimization to spend properly.

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2 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

The free respec is so that you can try out the new skill combinations on your ship at no cost until you decide what the best combination is. It is not so you can move your commanders around to new ships for free. They are giving you something for free and discounting something else, yet you want even more stuff for free?

image.png.e28b890d507c90653d0b45eb4fc548ce.png

I find I generally agree with many of your posts, but on this one I disagree. 

This is actually more akin to "PLEASE SIR, MAY I HAVE A BOWL AND SPOON FOR MY SOUP FIRST BEFORE YOU POUR THE SOUP?" 

How you perceive their changes to commanders skills as something "free" kind of escapes me. 

Since they do not track commander fXP, it appears EVERY commander will now require additional grinds. I have not yet seen the required number for the next three skill points; do you have that number? 

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Seems we are guinea pigs in a "rework" again! Fantastic

Just make is so SS are launched within 3 months after so I have no remorse in quitting.

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You're all ignoring the most important piece of information:

image.thumb.png.ad0ec39311614a49e683c50b1f01e9e2.png

 Let me put that in large print for you.

  • Commanders with less than the maximum number of skill points (<21) will earn additional Elite Commander XP equivalent to 5% of the received commander XP.

Now EVERY captain earns ECXP. Always.

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My favorite and most-played ship is the Atlanta.

I guess WG thinks it'll be "fine" to reduce it's range to 11.12km without AFT, while it faces 457mm guns in its matchmaking spread.

There are BBs with bigger SECONDARY range than the Atlanta's main battery range.

With most of these "changes" I'm pretty chill and take them in stride, but this actually pisses me off considerably.

I made it work through the IFHE change which has been considered a massive nerf for Tier VII 127mm guns; but gutting Atlanta's range now without significant buffs to compensate is total and complete bullcrap.

Personally, I feel this is a situation where they need to offer refunds. They've absolutely gutted this ship at this point.

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1 minute ago, HTSMetal said:

My favorite and most-played ship is the Atlanta.

I guess WG thinks it'll be "fine" to reduce it's range to 11.12km without AFT, while it faces 457mm guns in its matchmaking spread.

Musashi would like a word......

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32 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You're all ignoring the most important piece of information:

image.thumb.png.ad0ec39311614a49e683c50b1f01e9e2.png

 Let me put that in large print for you.

  • Commanders with less than the maximum number of skill points (<21) will earn additional Elite Commander XP equivalent to 5% of the received commander XP.

Now EVERY captain earns ECXP. Always.

That is a NICE change there.  Overall, my quick glance at this seems to be a BIG positive with a few EXCEPTIONS:

1)  I will be moving some commanders around tech tree ships, and I will have to pay for that - o well.  These guys better consider their new homes as their permanent homes.

2)  I was looking at getting Siegfried sometime next year (Ohio first) only so it could be a secondary CA.  Guess I won't now.

Otherwise, I have 2 months to prepare for this.

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40 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You're all ignoring the most important piece of information:

image.thumb.png.ad0ec39311614a49e683c50b1f01e9e2.png

 Let me put that in large print for you.

  • Commanders with less than the maximum number of skill points (<21) will earn additional Elite Commander XP equivalent to 5% of the received commander XP.

Now EVERY captain earns ECXP. Always.

This is a good thing. Sure it may seem small, but for players like me who lack even one 19 point commander we will be able to slowly train up our commanders.

 

The rest is crap. My poor atlantas :(

 

 

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1 hour ago, Asym_KS said:

But, a first world corporation would never do that.............ever.

 

Im sorry what? First world corporations make changes like this all the time. See also: Microsoft, Google, Apple, Adobe, LG, Samsung, Sony. Literally all of them have and continue to make changes to ther various products that users dont ask for. And that was just me listing the maker of stuff currently in the room Im occupying...

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10 minutes ago, HTSMetal said:

My favorite and most-played ship is the Atlanta.

I guess WG thinks it'll be "fine" to reduce it's range to 11.12km without AFT, while it faces 457mm guns in its matchmaking spread.

There are BBs with bigger SECONDARY range than the Atlanta's main battery range.

With most of these "changes" I'm pretty chill and take them in stride, but this actually pisses me off considerably.

I made it work through the IFHE change which has been considered a massive nerf for Tier VII 127mm guns; but gutting Atlanta's range now without significant buffs to compensate is total and complete bullcrap.

Personally, I feel this is a situation where they need to offer refunds. They've absolutely gutted this ship at this point.

Ive played the ship alot with the 11km range and its just painful, to do, to the point that it was a port queen. I know wargaming doesnt really buff premiums, but *any* cruiser that relied on these skills like the Atlanta(plus "b" variant) needs to be buffed before this goes live.

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1 hour ago, fourteenfour said:

When they need a spreadsheet to list all the skills they have failed.

 They should have simplified the captain skills and the easiest means would have to have more tiers of skills and allow only one choice in each tier. Each tier would have to be related in some way to each other and each column should also follow a theme. However this system practically begs for an Excel spreadsheet optimization to spend properly.

My optimization will be to delete the one I have to managing my Commanders and their skills and ignore this insanity entirely.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You're all ignoring the most important piece of information:

image.thumb.png.ad0ec39311614a49e683c50b1f01e9e2.png

 Let me put that in large print for you.

  • Commanders with less than the maximum number of skill points (<21) will earn additional Elite Commander XP equivalent to 5% of the received commander XP.

Now EVERY captain earns ECXP. Always.

Oh whoopie... that means to reach 21 points will take even longer. No way they'll give you something to make the grind less "grindy". 

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26 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

This is a good thing. Sure it may seem small, but for players like me who lack even one 19 point commander we will be able to slowly train up our commanders.

 

The rest is crap. My poor atlantas :(

 

 

Forget those 19 pointers poontas... you now need a 21 pointer. Your grind just got much longer. 

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Just now, Herr_Reitz said:

Forget those 19 pointers poontas... you now need a 21 pointer. Your grind just got much longer. 

Thats alright, i have 70 ships with 70 different commanders to play doubles on. Im more upset by the ships getting wrecked than the length of the commander grind. I didnt expect to have a 19pointer for a long time.(coop main)

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2 minutes ago, Princess_Daystar said:

Thats alright, i have 70 ships with 70 different commanders to play doubles on. Im more upset by the ships getting wrecked than the length of the commander grind. I didnt expect to have a 19pointer for a long time.(coop main)

Well that sounds fine and all, I appreciate your positive outlook. My concern will be with how the "new" skills stack/align as one is forced up the tree of skills, burning points because you have to just to move to the next higher skill level. 

I've always sort of despised that forced construct. As well as not being able to alter a single skill but having to go through an entire skill reset. 

Gosh if they'd fixed both of those issues, people would be dancing in the street. 

But - bottom line, the skills you'll likely really need to be competitive will be two top-tier skills you won't be able to use until you reach a full 21 points. Still, that's a guess... 

Has anyone seen the points tree to reach these upper skills now? 

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6 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Oh whoopie... that means to reach 21 points will take even longer. No way they'll give you something to make the grind less "grindy". 

Some people see only the clouds and can't perceive the silver lining. A fair few of the ships I like to play are tech-tree ships without a 19 point captain in them. Every battle I played in them was a missed opportunity to get ECXP into my reserves, and in some cases it discouraged me from playing the ship. Now that will no longer be the case.

3 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Has anyone seen the points tree to reach these upper skills now? 

As far as I can tell, the most expensive skills still only cost four points. I fear that you are pushing the bounds of opinion and pressing upon the thin line that separates it from misrepresentation.

Right now the only thing I sense in you is resentment so strong it's clouding your judgement.

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