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How to Make Playing Against CVs More Fun and Engaging

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Background: I watched the video linked in this thread and got thru about 2.5 pages of the typical back and forth about aircraft carriers being part of the game.

WG: You need to pay attention to this video - General Game Discussion - World of Warships official forum

The video makes some good points about the evolution of the game, and the successes and failures of the CV rework.  However, in spite of his claims to report just "the facts" the CC who made the video gets at least one concept about the AA mechanics wrong: both AA DPM and flak puffs remain at full strength when they overlap.  WG considered diminishing the AA DPM as more ship's AA auras overlapped, but ultimately left them at full strength when they botched the implementation during one of the patches.  I'd also argue that his assumption that it is easier to be a expert CV player vs any other class is also incorrect based on my own experience.  I've found the easiest class to rack up big damage and experience numbers in is battleships, and it is not even close.  The skill floor to be an effective high tier CV player is quite high.  The skill floor for CVs is artificially low at tier 4, which is done in order to get players into the class.  Currently, I think the MVR is more effective than the other T10 classes of carrier when you combine her AP bombs, AP rockets, each type of her aircraft having repair, and her stealthy fighter auras.  I'm confident WG will eventually get her balanced correctly.  I expect nerfs to MVR before the next clan battle season.

Thesis: If you are going to have a naval combat FPS set in the early to middle 20th century, CVs must be in the game, and they should be an effective and powerful class for a skilled player.  WG made the correct choice by including carriers in World of Warships.  Players, especially players that have been around since before their inception, need to accept that they are not going away.  I started playing in April of 2019, so how carriers played before the rework is not something I have experience with.  I play all classes, and am looking forward to submarines when they come to the game as well.  I enjoy playing my Midway (currently the only CV in my port) and I enjoy what carriers add to the game when I play all of my other ships as well.  However, I have make deliberate choices in my ship selection, captain skills, and upgrades which greatly contribute to this enjoyment.  Here are a few things you can do if you want to be more effective at countering air attacks during the game:

1.) Prioritize playing ships with powerful AA.   The irony of making a video about how CVs are too powerful while highlighting play in a BB with one of the worst AA capabilities at her tier should not be lost on anyone.  Play the Halland, Minotaur, Worchester, Texas, or any of the other ships who specialize in AA if you really hate being bombed.  If you choose a ship or line who has weak AA, learn how to play around that weakness (e.g. play close to allied ships to stack your AA auras).  You pay a price in some other aspect of gameplay to sail a powerful AA ship, so you should expect to pay a price in battle if you choose a ship with weak AA because you find some other feature of that class enjoyable (like having 9 x 18" rifles at T9).

2.) If you play a BB or heavy cruiser, always take AAM1 in slot 1.  These are the classes whose main batteries do not contribute to AA.  Also consider taking it for CLs and DDs whose main battery doesn't contribute to AA (French DDs come to mind, though I'm sure there are more).  As the video correctly points out, you cannot repair damaged AA guns.  Once they are knocked out, you lose the corresponding AA DPM output for the rest of the battle.  Your main battery almost always is repairable if it gets knocked out (I'd estimate 90+% of the time).  All things considered, buffing the survivability of AA is more important than your main battery.

2.1) Don't forget about AAM2 in slot 6 for high tier ships.  While this is not as much of a no brainer as AAM1 and there may be other better choices for slot 6, this is a powerful upgrade you have at your disposal for boosting your AA.  It is not just for secondary build German BBs.

2.2) AAGM1 in slot 3 isn't bad, but the other upgrades that compete with it in slot 3 make it hard to choose.  WG should buff this if they want more players to take it, or move it to slot 2. 

3.) Invest in AA captain skills.  Even a ship with a strong base AA rating (like Des Moines) can benefit greatly from these.  BFT is the best example, and I choose it on almost all ships where I don't take AAM2, or which don't have an effective AA consumable or some other method of escaping from concerted carrier attack (like smoke).

3.1) The captain skill changes WG is working on look promising, with one major exception.  AFT used to allow you to increase the range of your AA auras.  WG should bring back something similar as a 4 point cruiser only skill.  To rule out stealth AA, however, it should only be effective out to the ship's spotting range from air.  For example: Expert AA Gunner would include an increase of the range of all AA auras 10% with the outer aura expansion being limited to the ship's detection range by air. 

4.) Take advantage of available AA consumables.  Pick DFAA over speed boost  (DFAA over hydro is admittedly a much a harder sell).  Pick catapult fighters over spotting plane.  Do this especially if you choose not to invest any captain skills in AA.

4.1) Catapult fighters need to be more effective, especially at higher tiers.  I'd say it is possible to avoid a red ship's catapult fighters which I am attacking about 30 -  40% of the time when I play CV.  There should not be any trick to using this consumable.  If you attack a BB with 3 catapult fighters in the air before you drop your ordinance, you should lose 3 planes from your squadron every time.  With the consumable lasting only 60 s, you should not have to get your planes in the air any earlier than ordinance being dropped on your ship.  If you anticipate the air attack enough to get your fighters up 10 s or so before your ship is struck, they should shoot down the planes before the attack, not after.  Whatever WG needs to do to simplify this consumable to make it more automatic (which I believe is the intent of the consumable in the first place), they should.

4.2) Any ship with a catapult should have the option of carrying fighters.  WG recently started to make this choice available for some higher tier ships.  They should make this a universal choice on every ship with catapult aircraft.

5.)  The best way to learn to counter CV play is by learning to play a CV.  Pick a line and grind it up to at least T8.  Your play in every other class will benefit.

Summary: CVs are here to stay.  You can be effective in countering them if you choose to.  If you choose not to, you should not be surprised when you are victimized by them.  Moreover, if you choose not to, and then you complain about how game wrecking CVs are to the WoWs community, you have no credibility on the subject.

Edited by Maddau
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39 minutes ago, Maddau said:

Background: I watched the video linked in this thread and got thru about 2.5 pages of the typical back and forth about aircraft carriers being part of the game.

WG: You need to pay attention to this video - General Game Discussion - World of Warships official forum

The video makes some good points about the evolution of the game, and the successes and failures of the CV rework.  However, in spite of his claims to report just "the facts" the CC who made the video gets at least one concept about the AA mechanics wrong: both AA DPM and flak puffs remain at full strength when they overlap.  WG considered diminishing the AA DPM as more ship's AA auras overlapped, but ultimately left them at full strength when they botched the implementation during one of the patches.  I'd also argue that his assumption that it is easier to be a expert CV player vs any other class is also incorrect based on my own experience.  I've found the easiest class to rack up big damage and experience numbers in is battleships, and it is not even close.  The skill floor to be an effective high tier CV player is quite high.  The skill floor for CVs is artificially low at tier 4, which is done in order to get players into the class.  Currently, I think the MVR is more effective than the other T10 classes of carrier when you combine her AP bombs, AP rockets, each type of her aircraft having repair, and her stealthy fighter auras.  I'm confident WG will eventually get her balanced correctly.  I expect nerfs to MVR before the next clan battle season.

Thesis: If you are going to have a naval combat FPS set in the late 20th century, CVs must be in the game, and they should be an effective and powerful class for a skilled player.  WG made the correct choice by including carriers in World of Warships.  Players, especially players that have been around since before their inception, need to accept that they are not going away.  I started playing in April of 2019, so how carriers played before the rework is not something I have experience with.  I play all classes, and am looking forward to submarines when they come to the game as well.  I enjoy playing my Midway (currently the only CV in my port) and I enjoy what carriers add to the game when I play all of my other ships as well.  However, I have make deliberate choices in my ship selection, captain skills, and upgrades which greatly contribute to this enjoyment.  Here are a few things you can do if you want to be more effective at countering air attacks during the game:

1.) Prioritize playing ships with powerful AA.   The irony of making a video about how CVs are too powerful while highlighting play in a BB with one of the worst AA capabilities at her tier should not be lost on anyone.  Play the Halland, Minotaur, Worchester, Texas, or any of the other ships who specialize in AA if you really hate being bombed.  If you choose a ship or line who has weak AA, learn how to play around that weakness (e.g. play close to allied ships to stack your AA auras).  You pay a price in some other aspect of gameplay to sail a powerful AA ship, so you should expect to pay a price in battle if you choose a ship with weak AA because you find some other feature of that class enjoyable (like having 9 x 18" rifles at T9).

2.) If you play a BB or heavy cruiser, always take AAM1 in slot 1.  These are the classes whose main batteries do not contribute to AA.  Also consider taking it for CLs and DDs whose main battery doesn't contribute to AA (French DDs come to mind, though I'm sure there are more).  As the video correctly points out, you cannot repair damaged AA guns.  Once they are knocked out, you lose the corresponding AA DPM output for the rest of the battle.  Your main battery almost always is repairable if it gets knocked out (I'd estimate 90+% of the time).  All things considered, buffing the survivability of AA is more important than your main battery.

2.1) Don't forget about AAM2 in slot 6 for high tier ships.  While this is not as much of a no brainer as AAM1 and there may be other better choices for slot 6, this is a powerful upgrade you have at your disposal for boosting your AA.  It is not just for secondary build German BBs.

2.2) AAGM1 in slot 3 isn't bad, but the other upgrades that compete with it in slot 3 make it hard to choose.  WG should buff this if they want more players to take it, or move it to slot 2. 

3.) Invest in AA captain skills.  Even a ship with a strong base AA rating (like Des Moines) can benefit greatly from these.  BFT is the best example, and I choose it on almost all ships where I don't take AAM2, or which don't have an effective AA consumable or some other method of escaping from concerted carrier attack (like smoke).

3.1) The captain skill changes WG is working on look promising, with one major exception.  AFT used to allow you to increase the range of your AA auras.  WG should bring back something similar as a 4 point cruiser only skill.  To rule out stealth AA, however, it should only be effective out to the ship's spotting range from air.  For example: Expert AA Gunner would include an increase of the range of all AA auras 10% with the outer aura expansion being limited to the ship's detection range by air. 

4.) Take advantage of available AA consumables.  Pick DFAA over speed boost  (DFAA over hydro is admittedly a much a harder sell).  Pick catapult fighters over spotting plane.  Do this especially if you choose not to invest any captain skills in AA.

4.1) Catapult fighters need to be more effective, especially at higher tiers.  I'd say it is possible to avoid a red ship's catapult fighters which I am attacking about 30 -  40% of the time when I play CV.  There should not be any trick to using this consumable.  If you attack a BB with 3 catapult fighters in the air before you drop your ordinance, you should lose 3 planes from your squadron every time.  With the consumable lasting only 60 s, you should not have to get your planes in the air any earlier than ordinance being dropped on your ship.  If you anticipate the air attack enough to get your fighters up 10 s or so before your ship is struck, they should shoot down the planes before the attack, not after.  Whatever WG needs to do to simplify this consumable to make it more automatic (which I believe is the intent of the consumable in the first place), they should.

4.2) Any ship with a catapult should have the option of carrying fighters.  WG recently started to make this choice available for some higher tier ships.  They should make this a universal choice on every ship with catapult aircraft.

5.)  The best way to learn to counter CV play is by learning to play a CV.  Pick a line and grind it up to at least T8.  Your play in every other class will benefit.

Summary: CVs are here to stay.  You can be effective in countering them if you choose to.  If you choose not to, you should not be surprised when you are victimized by them.  Moreover, if you choose not to, and then you complain about how game wrecking CVs are to the WoWs community, you have no credibility on the subject.

At work so I didn't read all of it (after i will) but I can say as CV's it's much easier to get SAFE and effective use from your ship while this isn't true with other classes, (spotting).

 

Personally I want to be able to have more control over my AA squadrons, whether that's more narrow priority sector that deals massive damage or the ability to aim my flak clouds. CV's (and possible subs) aren't very interactive for the enemy which makes the unfunny to play against :) A good BB should be able to shut down a bad CV player and I just don't see that happening now. 

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40 minutes ago, Maddau said:

5.)  The best way to learn to counter CV play is by learning to play a CV.  Pick a line and grind it up to at least T8.  Your play in every other class will benefit.

Summary: CVs are here to stay.  You can be effective in countering them if you choose to.  If you choose not to, you should not be surprised when you are victimized by them.  Moreover, if you choose not to, and then you complain about how game wrecking CVs are to the WoWs community, you have no credibility on the subject.

This a thousand times over, far too many of the anti-CV crowd have little if any experience.

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2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This a thousand times over, far too many of the anti-CV crowd have little if any experience.

It's like they hate the things so much that they can't bring themselves to even have one in their port. People get way to worked up about this game.

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20 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This a thousand times over, far too many of the anti-CV crowd have little if any experience.

Yet those of us who play CV at unicum level then get told our opinions on them being broken don't count. So, which is it? 

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18 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This a thousand times over, far too many of the anti-CV crowd have little if any experience.

The complaint is playing against them is unfun. Playing CVs doesn't teach you how to have fun being targeted by them, at best it might help you learn to "Just Dodge", at worst you're now another person contributing to the problem of CVs not being fun to play against. 

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22 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This a thousand times over, far too many of the anti-CV crowd have little if any experience.

You don't need to personally perform a colonoscopy to know it's uncomfortable to receive one.

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24 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This a thousand times over, far too many of the anti-CV crowd have little if any experience.

I'm not really a CV hater, but some things about CVs are quite a bit infuriating. I also have I think 2? Random battles in CVs, I simply don't find any enjoyment in the class. Granted, a more spherical knowledge is always better and can help dispel certain "myths". That said, does the fact that I have no experience playing CVs rob me of the ability to be critical of certain aspects and express my opinion on things that I experience on the receiving end? Similarly people here on the forums often say that unicum opinion doesn't matter because these players don't represent the average player, being therefore biased.

To me CV discussion isn't just about the class itself, that's one part of the equation; the other is the AA, movement and tactics on the part of a surface ship.

1 hour ago, Maddau said:

snip.

As for the OP,  I won't get much into it, but to a certain extent you are affected differently than older players, simply because you are a recent one. This isn't meant as an insult; we just might be seeing things differently. But the almost two year process of implementing the CV rework has been nothing more than a rollercoaster of imbalance after imbalance on both sides. What started as a 6-8 month rebalancing period after the rework, according to devs, has been dragged on for far too long.

 

Edited by warheart1992

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47 minutes ago, Maddau said:

3.) Invest in AA captain skills.  Even a ship with a strong base AA rating (like Des Moines) can benefit greatly from these.  BFT is the best example, and I choose it on almost all ships where I don't take AAM2, or which don't have an effective AA consumable or some other method of escaping from concerted carrier attack (like smoke).

3.1) The captain skill changes WG is working on look promising, with one major exception.  AFT used to allow you to increase the range of your AA auras.  WG should bring back something similar as a 4 point cruiser only skill.  To rule out stealth AA, however, it should only be effective out to the ship's spotting range from air.  For example: Expert AA Gunner would include an increase of the range of all AA auras 10% with the outer aura expansion being limited to the ship's detection range by air. 

I would say the captain skills are the biggest issue for me. Yes, you can spec for AA, but the cost/benefit analysis says it is really not a great deal:

  1. BFT: 3pts, increases AA DPS by 10%. Nice if you can use it, otherwise it competes with SI (more heals, more radars, more everything) which is insanely more useful on most ships, or DE, BoS,  etc. Yes, you can pick it, but only if you don't need the others
  2. AFT: 4pts. gives your flak 15% more damage. Since these are usually avoided and only punish lesser skilled CV players (like myself) and are already pretty hefty, they don't help against the CVs you need it for: good players. Also, competes with FP, CE, RPF.
  3. Massive AA: sector prep time reduced by 50%, 100% plus to instant damage. Great, isn't it? No, because it also removes the sector reinforcement buff to DPS. This means, you spend 4 pts. on a skill that slightly changes your AA while not outright improving it, often ending up nerfing it. Absolute the worst.

So, I would say BFT is the only worthwhile skill here, and only on ships that already have good enough AA to make the extra 10% worth it. On ships where you most certainly need AA buffs, this thing does nothing.

Case examples:

  • Des Moines (BFT+AAM3) DPS: 132.8 (5.8k), 526.9 (4.0), 110.7 (2km)
  • Des Moines (AAM3) DPS: 120.8 (5.8k), 479.0 (4.0), 100.6 (2km)
  • Des Moines (stock) DPS: 105 (5.8k), 416.5 (4.0), 87.5 (2km)

This is at most a 26.5% improvement, meaning you would shoot down 26.5% more planes in an engagement. For the cost of 3pts. and either the legendary mod, range mod, or DPM mod. Sounds impressive though, until you consider how many planes you would need to shoot down for this increase to have a real impact such as preventing strikes. For that you would need improvements on the order of 100%. Now, consider a Zao or other ship with bad AA and the 26% will not do that much.

Furthermore, I'd think that most CVs would heavily spec into plane survivability and damage reduction, meaning good CV players with high-skill captains can directly nullify those skills (i.e. Aircraft armor reduces damage taken by 10%, meaning it counters BFT, even overcompensates as 10% reduction means more than 10% increase: 100*1.1=110  110*0.9=99).

All of this does not address the fundamental issue many players have with playing against CVs, the lack of control/ total helplessness. AA is automatic, flak is automatic, no skill of the ship driver will make it better or worse. Apart form dodging (good luck in a CA/BB) the outcome is only reliant on how good/bad the CV player is and has nothing to do with the "vivtim". Personally, this makes it so much unfun to me and I find this to be a major failure in game design.

 

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1 hour ago, Maddau said:

1.) Prioritize playing ships with powerful AA.   The irony of making a video about how CVs are too powerful while highlighting play in a BB with one of the worst AA capabilities at her tier should not be lost on anyone.  Play the Halland, Minotaur, Worchester, Texas, or any of the other ships who specialize in AA if you really hate being bombed.  If you choose a ship or line who has weak AA, learn how to play around that weakness (e.g. play close to allied ships to stack your AA auras).  You pay a price in some other aspect of gameplay to sail a powerful AA ship, so you should expect to pay a price in battle if you choose a ship with weak AA because you find some other feature of that class enjoyable (like having 9 x 18" rifles at T9).

 

Yeah uh, it will help a little (just tiny bit) but it won't really matters because the CV can still land a strike on you. I am sure the Halland I bombed in Midway would love to hear your opinion on "powerfull AA" ship.

Blob of ship helps a bit by delaying the CV strike but if your goal is to kill a low ship in a middle of a blob, then guess what, the CV can do that.

 

1 hour ago, Maddau said:

2.) If you play a BB or heavy cruiser, always take AAM1 in slot 1.

Hm yeah ok 

1 hour ago, Maddau said:

2.1) Don't forget about AAM2 in slot 6 for high tier ships. 

Aaand this is useless. Reload or range mod are far more useful than the current piece of crap that is AA mod. +15% more continous damage and flak damage yay. It will surely make me a no fly zone.....not.

Why would I take AAM2 that provide next to no benefit against a semi competent CV when I can just take either reload or range that not only will be useful in 100% of my game (unlike AAM2 that is totally useless the few time there's no CV) but also provide something noticeable against any level of player.

1 hour ago, Maddau said:

3.) Invest in AA captain skills. 

Another waste of points. Again, the same argument mentioned above apply to this but also I don't have 11pts to spare just to make my AA able to shoot 1 more plane if the CV makes a mistake. Manual AA (or whatever the skill is now called) is crap, AFT boost flak damage that is utterly useless if the CV can dodge them and BFT is too costy to use as an AA boost. Make BFT a 1pt skill for AA and maybe I'll consider it...Actually no just buff AA like they were in before the great nerf.

 

1 hour ago, Maddau said:

4.) Take advantage of available AA consumables.

 

Yeah pick the skill that will make your flak deadly....flak that CV can manipulate and dodge. Another waste of time.

 

1 hour ago, Maddau said:

The best way to learn to counter CV play is by learning to play a CV

 

Well I have grinded 2 CV line to T10 (first line being IJN and recently my second line being USN) I can tell there is no effective counterplay against CV. If I fail something in CV it's 95% because I potato and 5% because the red player outplayed me. 

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48 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This a thousand times over, far too many of the anti-CV crowd have little if any experience.

And yet, some of the biggest anti-CV people here are dark purple CV players, although I'm not one of them.  You won't credit those people either, moving this goal post around to suit your narrative.  

Care to try again?

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2 minutes ago, Pay_Your_Torpedo_Tax said:

Yet those of us who play CV at unicum level then get told our opinions on them being broken don't count. So, which is it? 

Oh, there are problems with CV's and every other ship in the game. I won't say that what unicum level players say doesn't count but because of playing at that level most things are stupidly easy for you like sling shot where lesser players struggle.

2 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

The complaint is playing against them is unfun. Playing CVs doesn't teach you how to have fun being targeted by them, at best it might help you learn to "Just Dodge", at worst you're now another person contributing to the problem of CVs not being fun to play against. 

Playing them teaches you what they can and cannot do and what the target can do to mess up their attack which will make your encounters with them more enjoyable. A well timed dodge by a DD and even some cruisers will fubar all but unicum players attacks limiting the amount of damage you receive making you more work than you are worth.

 

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None of what is written in the OP makes sense.

Gimping yourself 100% of the time by taking a skill that marginally increases AA damage?

None of these make playing against CVs any fun. Quite the opposite, as you are making your ship less effective against everything else. Plus, there still is no counterplay there.

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28 minutes ago, Sventex said:

You don't need to personally perform a colonoscopy to know it's uncomfortable to receive one.

That is a bad corollary, the really uncomfortable part of that is the prep because you give yourself diarrhea, the procedure is boring.

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You can't. WG has been trying to for the better part of six years, and has only managed to make CVs worse or equally aggravating and un-fun to play against.

It's like trying to make cigarettes "healthy". You're trying to make something fun, that is inherently not fun to play against and is bad for the game.

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Thread title is misleading.  I see nothing in the OP that would lead to interaction between surface ships and CV planes to be more fun.  All I see are suggestions to marginally improve AA defense at the cost of virtually everything else; none of which will prevent a CV from striking you.  All it may do is make it slightly more costly for the CV to prosecute said strike. 

Playing against a CV is not fun because there is no real counterplay - you push a button to reinforce a sector and pray that the RNG helps you out or the CV driver messes up.  Just dodge is a joke, because even if the first strike is unsuccessful the follow up will likely do damage.  Give me the ability to directly influence the outcome of a surface ship-CV interaction - something that pits my skill against the skill of the CV driver.  Trusting my ship to RNG while having no ability to respond directly is bollocks.

I don't think CV balance is in a terrible place right now, honestly.  I do think that AA auras ranges could be improved a little bit; with a few notable exceptions they are too short to have any meaningful effect on incoming planes.  They have more success against outbound strikes than inbound, and IMO that's stupid. 

Figure out a way to legit make the interactions more fun/engaging/compelling and I suspect a significant portion of the complaints will stop.

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Suggestion 1 is basically saying only play a few select ships. Want to have fun as a DD? just only play EU DDs and nothing else. Just ignore the other lines. Don't even play any DD below T8 because they have no AA. If you do insist on playing DDs, then hope you get no CVs. 

Suggestion 2 isn't a good option for many ships. CAs take MBM1 as they somewhat often get disabled, usually at a very inconvenient time. MBM1 also doesn't address the issue of having enough AA in the first place

Suggestion 3 has issues because most ships must go out of their way to invest in AA. For example, DM taking BFT means that is 3 points not going to another skill like DE or SI, Skill that most players would prioritize on DM. I could take other skill that works against every ship as opposed to a skill that only works against 1. Many players will argue that AA skills only has a placebo effect. 

Suggestion 4: Catapults mainly discourage initial attacks and prevent follow-up attacks. Doesn't activate fast enough not deal enough damage to actually prevent attacks. Similar problem with DFAA, though you are more likely to get a squad wipe if the enemy CV runs into flak.

Suggestion 5 is the only good suggestion in this thread. You can learn how CVs strike other ships and position yourself accordingly to avoid them. As you learn how to play CVs, you also learn how to minimize AA damage and understand why so many players hate CVs. 

1 hour ago, Maddau said:

Summary: CVs are here to stay.  You can be effective in countering them if you choose to.  If you choose not to, you should not be surprised when you are victimized by them.  Moreover, if you choose not to, and then you complain about how game wrecking CVs are to the WoWs community, you have no credibility on the subject.

As a CV player who played for O7 in Clan Battles, I am fully aware of how to "counter" CVs. However, the CV almost always has the initiative and can minimize your AA's effectiveness, no matter how much you spec into it. It comes down to the skill of the CV, not your own skill. 

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None of these options make playing against CVs fun. Some actually make the experience even worse.

1 hour ago, Maddau said:

1.) Prioritize playing ships with powerful AA.   

Starting with this. What about playing only a select amount of ships is fun? Why should I tailor my experience to fight against one guy on the enemy team? Besides, even the ships with """"powerful"""" AA can be pretty easily struck. Des Moines? Free lunch. Halland? Strike it once and it's AA is neutered. A blob? Pre-drop and you win.

2 hours ago, Maddau said:

3.) Invest in AA captain skills. 

Not when the AA skills are so expensive and so ineffective for their cost. When you spend three/four points on something, you expect it to work. It barely does even that.

2 hours ago, Maddau said:

4.) Take advantage of available AA consumables. 

You serious? DFAA is the most useless consumable in this game, it might as well be added to every ship in this game as it does functionally nothing.

2 hours ago, Maddau said:

5.)  The best way to learn to counter CV play is by learning to play a CV. 

I have three of the four tech tree CV lines and several premiums. I am well aware on how to CV. I still think they're terrible for the game.

 

You are missing the point. The big thing about AA is that the entire interaction between ships and planes is unfun and unintuitive. The CV player is essentially playing a PvE game, as there's nothing a surface ship can do in regards to AA against a squadron. All they can do is pray the CV messes up.

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2 hours ago, Maddau said:

Summary: CVs are here to stay.  You can be effective in countering them if you choose to.  If you choose not to, you should not be surprised when you are victimized by them.  Moreover, if you choose not to, and then you complain about how game wrecking CVs are to the WoWs community, you have no credibility on the subject.

Oh-Kay - So, you have to give up all LOS combat perks to "just survive?"  You realize how stupid that is?  Right??  One ship class should not "completely change the game...."  Yes, it sells all sorts of carriers; and, so far, caused at least over three dozen players I know to leaver the game:......some of them serious whales.....  I figure our host has lost tens of thousands of dollar so far in "one clan leaving...." 

Here's a better idea:  don't play against them.  There's no point.  And, if the game survives them, which is not assured because you don't see them in the Pro-Games nor Clan Battles.......ah, we'll see now won't we.....!

Again, the best way to deal with them is to not play against them.  Have fun suffering endless stomps............the rest of us are having fun !

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As much as I advocate for CVs, your ideas are not good.
 

Maximizing AA right now does very little to your actual effectiveness (for most ships). And frankly, even if it doubled AA effectiveness it wouldn’t please most people because of the spotting (which I think should get fixed) and the asymmetry of attacks (which I don’t).

But I agree that a WWII game without carriers is silly. And I agree that many people in the forums haven’t played CVs enough to understand the impact of plane loss or how CVs select targets. (And other very high level drivers are disconnected from how ineffective bad CV players are currently)

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2 hours ago, Maddau said:

<TL;DR>

You obviously enjoy imposing sky cancer on other players; too bad it is allowed.

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