Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
TaxDollarsAtWork

DD Smoke, Gimmick or worth it?

14 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

154
[NSEW]
Members
454 posts
4,029 battles

My favourite DD line is the Pan Asian destroyer line for a number of reasons but the smoke isn't one of them at all

I've always played Radar DD and with respectable success for the life of me I just simply can not get smoke to work.

 

It seems like a hallmark of most DD lines but at tiers VIII and above I just cant see any reason to take it,

 

How do you make it work? I've only found it useful say to break contact if I bump into something but usually some forethought and SA helps avoiding that (as does 5.7km ~ 5.8km detection) and to get away from planes

Outside of that what else can I do with it? Have not had success smoke farming but maybe that's a captain build thing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
347 posts
5,683 battles

You can use it to farm ships with guns and torps or bait ships to sail into it if you happen to appear to be "overextended." These strategies only work in a few situations.

Generally, you want to make sure that:

1. No enemy DDs are around to spot you and blind drop torps into your smoke

2. There isn't any radar around

3. You've positioned yourself either in a spot where it seems like the enemy BBs/cruisers are trying to push into or in a spot where you have a healthy amount of broadside so you can land torps and use AP.

 

The biggest learning curve, apart from learning what has radar and hydro vs what doesn't, is learning when to hit the smoke key. You want to be already decelerating when you pop smoke, otherwise your first puff will not cover you and, depending on your range and heading, this may give your enemy additional time to shoot at you as you slow down for them (really important to learn how to do this when you are dealing with planes).

Also, it's crucial that you have someone on your team giving you spotting. Otherwise, you'll just be sitting blind in smoke.

Best of luck, captain!

Edited by FullMetal_Inferno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
556
[O7]
Supertester
381 posts
13,133 battles

PA DD smokes are actually considered one of their strong points. Numerous smokes provide greater versatility in usage, whether it be escaping incoming CV rocket strikes, smoking up to farm damage, or to help allies. In addition, faster cool down between uses allows PA DDs to be more mobile. They can be more aggressive as their safety net comes up faster than other DDs. If the enemy runs away, they can reposition and use smoke again faster than other DDs. 

A good strategy for smoke farming is to smoke up as your torpedoes hit the enemy. They almost always DCP floods, so any fire damage will last for full duration.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
154
[NSEW]
Members
454 posts
4,029 battles

Smoke farming seems to detract from what my job is as a DD though, spotting and I dont think I have crazy DPM like say British or Japanese DDs or the fire chance

Im totally ok with only dealing damage with torps and occasionally fighting DDs

 

Im more worried about my ability to counter ships like Harugamo and Kitakaze

after a few games using my conceal plus smoke kind of works but it takes much longer to flush them out

 

It generally seems like radar is much easier to use and much more impactful in winning games rendering smoke obsolescent almost

Edited by TaxDollarsAtWork

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
556
[O7]
Supertester
381 posts
13,133 battles

Spotting is an important of playing DDs, but dealing damage is often just as important. You cannot guarantee your allies will kill whatever you spot. 

PA DDs can't effectively counter gunboats like Kitakaze and Harugumo and are completely reliant on allied support to kill them. In fact, one of the main issues with PA DD radar is that the ships lack the firepower to kill the DDs they are supposed to counter. If a Kitakaze rushes your radar Yue Yang, better hope your allies are nearby. 

I would argue radar DDs are significantly harder to play in the current meta. Without smoke, you lack a easy way to disengage. CV planes coming for your radar YY? nothing you can do but hope he doesn't see you. Accidentally shoot your guns in a disadvantageous fight? That's 20s of getting shot at before you go dark. 

While you can be successful with radar PA DDs, I would recommend sticking with Smaland or Orkan as I consider them more effective in the radar DD role. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
737
[META_]
Members
1,667 posts
17,446 battles

Breaking line of sight, farming when you know no dd or radar is around  , smoking a crippled teammate so he can break line of sight...in competition CB I use it to smoke a cruiser so they can safely farm as I spot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
154
[NSEW]
Members
454 posts
4,029 battles

Countering gunboats by outspotting them makes perfect sense to me, I shadow them, they smoke to break LOS.

I proceed to radar there smoke maybe in that instant shoot them.

Accidentally shooting ones guns seems more like a problem of trigger discipline than anything.

I can't see a case to be made for smoke it just tanked my win rate and it made me realize a well played Torpedo DD doesn't really need smoke except for planes. That's where my damage comes from

I'll let ship's with actually good guns HE Farm while I cap and spot and screen

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
556
[O7]
Supertester
381 posts
13,133 battles

Surpressing is a more accurate term than countering. You aren't actually doing much to the enemy DD aside from spotting him. In fact, ships like the French DDs are expected to gunboat in open water so you aren't doing anything useful against them. 

If you are forced to fight them, then you are countered because you lose the DPM fight and have no smoke to disengage with. You can't even get a lucky torp strike to save yourself.

No player will play perfectly. Even I pick poor gunfights with other targets or misposition from time to time. In most of those instances, smoke is literally a lifesaver and is a reason why I can play aggressively. If I pick a radar Chung Mu and run into a Kitakaze, I simply lose. With smoke, I can disengage from that fight with minimal HP loss. With radar, that's no longer an option. Sure I can try to use islands, but notice how restrictive I must play to meet those conditions. 

 

If smoke has tanked your WR, I'd argue it's more due to your unfamiliarity with smoke usage or you are still trying to play like a radar DD. Smoke is extremely versatile in usage and used for more than farming. 

If you don't need smoke for a well played torp DD, then why do you need radar? If you are torping ships, surely you don't need radar to spot bigger ships as you hard spot them anyways.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
154
[NSEW]
Members
454 posts
4,029 battles
7 hours ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

Surpressing is a more accurate term than countering. You aren't actually doing much to the enemy DD aside from spotting him. In fact, ships like the French DDs are expected to gunboat in open water so you aren't doing anything useful against them. 

If you are forced to fight them, then you are countered because you lose the DPM fight and have no smoke to disengage with. You can't even get a lucky torp strike to save yourself.

No player will play perfectly. Even I pick poor gunfights with other targets or misposition from time to time. In most of those instances, smoke is literally a lifesaver and is a reason why I can play aggressively. If I pick a radar Chung Mu and run into a Kitakaze, I simply lose. With smoke, I can disengage from that fight with minimal HP loss. With radar, that's no longer an option. Sure I can try to use islands, but notice how restrictive I must play to meet those conditions. 

 

If smoke has tanked your WR, I'd argue it's more due to your unfamiliarity with smoke usage or you are still trying to play like a radar DD. Smoke is extremely versatile in usage and used for more than farming. 

If you don't need smoke for a well played torp DD, then why do you need radar? If you are torping ships, surely you don't need radar to spot bigger ships as you hard spot them anyways.

 

Because a majority of all DDs in the game lean on smoke, only PA DDs have radar.

Radar is good because I've found a reliable path to victory is to suppress or kill enemy DDs since a team/flank with no DD means not much spotting or screening making them more susceptible to torps and grants freedom of movement to a degree if I flush out a Shimakaze

 

I would like to learn how to use smoke as its a more universal DD play skill, the closest thing that comes to Radar DDs is Hydro DDs

I've not ground any line with it yet, but form my rental with Loyang I can tell its strong but plays a little differently and overlaps a lot with the smoke in question.

 

Though yes you are right a lot of these short smokes can be strong since they're an in between of British DD and American DD smokes so they can offer some team utility

Edited by TaxDollarsAtWork

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
556
[O7]
Supertester
381 posts
13,133 battles

Radar is good, but is still 1 part of the ship's performance. 

As I've said before, PA DDs simply lack the firepower needed to reliably kill the DDs they are radaring. Hsien Yang and Yue Yang have notably less gun DPM than many of their same tier DD counterparts. What's the point of forcing an engagement if you don't have the means to win the fight? You are forced to rely on allied support or finding openings to use that radar. The former relies on your teammates being competent, the latter relies on enemy DD lack of skill. 

And again, giving up radar means your PA DD now has no defensive tools if you get into trouble. If I am a CV, I will mercilessly hunt you until you go back to your allies. And if you are next to your allies, you aren't spotting, shooting, or even providing smoke, making you functionally useless. If you take a bad trade, now you are the one being suppressed since radar doesn't stop the enemy from facechecking you. 

Basically, radar is powerful but the PA DDs are poorly equipped to use it effectively. Smaland and Black are excellent examples of radar DDs as they have the firepower to use it while retaining some defensive tool.  Smaland is so good that WG is removing her from sale. 

You can always go back to Gadjah Mada to learn PA smokes. RN DD smokes are similar as well. 

Defensive smoke usage is fairly simple: If you are spotted and will likely take massive damage, then pop smoke and run. Still have to keep radar ships in mind, but that comes down to general awareness. Play conservatively until your smoke comes back up. 

Offensive smoke is somewhat more complicated. Smoke close enough where you can safely farm the target, but also make sure someone else is spotting him. Timing is also crucial as alerting BBs to your presence may cause your torps to miss. 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
154
[NSEW]
Members
454 posts
4,029 battles

The DD doesnt need to kill them though, usage of DD radar inst hinged soley upon your own ability to kill the enemy DD with your guns

its as if to say you should be instantly killing everything you spot in every ship, if he gets focused fired by the team isnt that well, the point?

You make it sound as if most team mates will not open fire on spotted targets, quite contrary to that they will even if they dont hit, the community has a problem not understanding when to stop shooting rather than the other way around

I also do not find Gadja Enjoyable to play with its low ROF guns

Edited by TaxDollarsAtWork

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
556
[O7]
Supertester
381 posts
13,133 battles

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can radar the enemy DD, but its no guarantee that your teammate will hit him, or shoot him, or even acknowledge his existence. After all, a 20/25s radar goes by very quickly. 

If the team is doing their job, then you do yours and victory will follow. However, if the team is incapable then you will have to pick up the slack. If you can't make that difference up, then good luck winning the battle. You don't want your win rate to be reliant on a coin flip of good or bad teammates. Ranked will teach you this over and over. 

As a side note, your style of DD play is very similar to Clan Battles DDs where their entire purpose is to take caps and spot ships. It works very well in CB as you are backed up by your clan mates who do the shooting for you, letting you focus on DD tasks. However, it doesn't work as well in ranked and randoms due to the varying quality of teammates you will provide support for. In ranked, my focus is killing other DDs in which I take Smaland. Yue Yang is far less capable at killing DDs, which becomes a huge issue if you can't get your support. 

 

 

 

Edited by Your_SAT_Score
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×