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Swervenkill

I Hate Coop

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I love playing coop. There is something cathartic about blowing up computer-operated ships that behave in a predictable fashion. And, though it doesn’t teach you good tactics it does help your aim. That said, there are some things about Coop that really annoy me.

1.       You end up fighting yourself a lot. It seems like 75 to 90% of the bot ships are the same as the human side. Often you end up fighting the same class ship you are riding in. I wouldn’t mind if it were every once in a while but doing so almost every game lacks variety.

2.       The first-hit Fire. You can almost be guaranteed the first HE round that impacts you will start a fire. I just wish my rounds were that reliable.

3.       The Gang Bang. The first guy who the bots detect always gets attacked by masses of bot ships, then they stick with him, often to the exclusion of other, more threatening targets. This is especially bad when playing cruisers: Because you are often detected before the destroyers and while the battleships are out of range you tend to get focus-fired by every bot ship opposite you. Of course, your allies appreciate your acting like a pin cushion while they happily blaze away, but you don’t get experience for being a good target. Of course, you could hide behind the battleships until the bots focus fire someone else but then your damage numbers go way down.

4.       The slow BB curse. In coop the bots all charge forward full blast. When you are in a destroyer or cruiser you charge forward too, both sides exchange torpedoes and the survivors then chase down the battleships. If you are in a slow battleship you go forward as fast as you can but often the game is over before you get close enough to make a difference. One game in the Oklahoma I checked after play and fired precisely three volleys before the game ended. Starting at tier 6 you have faster battleships (Unless you are American) so it isn’t as bad. Worst case is:

5.       Commanding a battleship on the Eyeball Map. You know the one, with an island dead center in the board and two rows of islands like sideways parenthesis surrounding it. Battleships always start in the middle of the board and you have two choices: Either charge ahead and hope you survive the gang bang once you clear the island chains, or bypass the center of the board and don’t do much damage. This is more noticeable on the northern side because the islands on the south funnel battleships to the large gap to the southwest of the center, and funnel cruisers and destroyers from the southeast corner into the center, across the biggest opening in the north with torpedoes galore. On this board the computer plays better tactically than the players because the battleships are more likely to travel as a group.

6.       Magic torpedoes. I don’t know how many times I’ve gunned down a bot ship, then a couple minutes later every torpedo the ship had magically appears dead center on my flank, too late to turn away. It’s as if the computer stuck them there as payback.

7.       The Cross-board potshot. Bot ships often decide to shoot at you at long range, even when there are more lucrative or dangerous targets much closer like in torpedo range. Sometimes I wonder if they are just making sure you don’t feel left out. These shots often hit with preternatural accuracy.

8.       The Aircraft Carrier Chase. After wiping out all the surface ships it is inevitable that you have to go find the enemy aircraft carrier. To do this you are either in a destroyer and have to duck and dodge the endless supply of enemy squadrons while your side’s cruisers snaffle the kill, or you’re in a 20 knot battleship hopelessly out of range to get to the carrier.  The carrier usually will sink right after your first volley leaves the barrels.

(Author’s Warning: The above is a light-hearted attempt to poke fun at the foibles of Coop play, not a serious demand for change.)

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11 minutes ago, Swervenkill said:

2.       The first-hit Fire. You can almost be guaranteed the first HE round that impacts you will start a fire. I just wish my rounds were that reliable.

Everything you say is so true, especially this one.  Once I landed 55 HE hits on enemy ships, augmented by flags, and got 1 fire.  In the same battle I was lit up at least 6 times with multiple fires from first salvo hits.  Its like they're throwing napalm instead of explosives.

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We've always had magic toasters in Co-op. I just wish I could get one to turn cheap white bread into cinnamon-raisin swirl toast or a nice cream cheese bagel.

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I dislike random because of the toxicity and the many cvs. So I have tried playing Co-op more.Everything stated above is true and co op isnt that much fun because of it. I think what bothers me the most is the crazy me me attatude of the players everyone just out for themselves... ships running right in torp lanes of dds with no care etc etc. I do think that the name should be changed to something like Free for All mode because co-op does not describe the experience.

 

 

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Co-op is a great place to learn to do maximum damage in the shortest span of time.

Random "mains" who drop-in to Co-op games are often noted for their bewildered state when players aren't island-camping and the opposing team is sunk before that "Random Main" is able to get to their favorite camping spot and cry for intelligence data.

Co-op is also a good place to test a ship or to try an idea or tactic or to perform mission tasks or to get away from toxic chat in random battles or all of the above.
Win, lose, draw, we play the game to have fun.

And, 'Bots have been improving their game-play.  So things have gotten more interesting.

And remember, 'Bots are emulating human behaviors, including the times when they beach on an island due to navigational error or to avoid a torpedo salvo.  :-)

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Coop is their but coop makes every attempt possible for you to be so disgusted to play coop to force to play randoms which is what wargaming wants you to do :Smile_sceptic:

Edited by LastRemnant

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"you don't get experience for being a good target"...

Yes you do... it's listed under "potential damage" in the post battle results screen.

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1 hour ago, CylonRed said:

The only thing that annoys me about coop is that it is an Easy button win.

Does that annoy you because it bores you or because you think that's why some folks play it?

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2 hours ago, Swervenkill said:

4.       The slow BB curse. In coop the bots all charge forward full blast. When you are in a destroyer or cruiser you charge forward too, both sides exchange torpedoes and the survivors then chase down the battleships. If you are in a slow battleship you go forward as fast as you can but often the game is over before you get close enough to make a difference. One game in the Oklahoma I checked after play and fired precisely three volleys before the game ended. Starting at tier 6 you have faster battleships (Unless you are American) so it isn’t as bad.

The other day I managed to sink a red DD in my Oklahoma because it somehow ran the gauntlet and got all the way over to our side of the map. One of my best Oklahoma coop games ever! :Smile_veryhappy:

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8 minutes ago, SkullCowboy_60 said:

Does that annoy you because it bores you or because you think that's why some folks play it?

Or he is lonely because all his rando buddies come to coop to complete the directives and missions.

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I usually find playing cruisers is an exercise in frustration. Doesn't matter if I'm playing something as lightly armoured as a Leander, or as heavily armoured as an Alaska. Doesn't matter if there's an allied DD or BB at almost point blank range and I'm on the edge of detection. The instant I'm spotted, every ship that can targets me. This usually results in the number immediately jumping to three or four, but it's not at all uncommon to see five or six. I just feel like BBs are much more fun to play as, even if I do get targeted by multiple ships, I can usually take it.

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1 minute ago, MushroomBoogaloo said:

I usually find playing cruisers is an exercise in frustration. Doesn't matter if I'm playing something as lightly armoured as a Leander, or as heavily armoured as an Alaska. Doesn't matter if there's an allied DD or BB at almost point blank range and I'm on the edge of detection. The instant I'm spotted, every ship that can targets me. This usually results in the number immediately jumping to three or four, but it's not at all uncommon to see five or six. I just feel like BBs are much more fun to play as, even if I do get targeted by multiple ships, I can usually take it.

DD smokes up, next lowest hp ship is a cruiser.

You want to follow a French or Pan-European DD around in coop.

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7 hours ago, Swervenkill said:

I love playing coop. There is something cathartic about blowing up computer-operated ships that behave in a predictable fashion. And, though it doesn’t teach you good tactics it does help your aim. That said, there are some things about Coop that really annoy me.

1.       You end up fighting yourself a lot. It seems like 75 to 90% of the bot ships are the same as the human side. Often you end up fighting the same class ship you are riding in. I wouldn’t mind if it were every once in a while but doing so almost every game lacks variety.

2.       The first-hit Fire. You can almost be guaranteed the first HE round that impacts you will start a fire. I just wish my rounds were that reliable.

3.       The Gang Bang. The first guy who the bots detect always gets attacked by masses of bot ships, then they stick with him, often to the exclusion of other, more threatening targets. This is especially bad when playing cruisers: Because you are often detected before the destroyers and while the battleships are out of range you tend to get focus-fired by every bot ship opposite you. Of course, your allies appreciate your acting like a pin cushion while they happily blaze away, but you don’t get experience for being a good target. Of course, you could hide behind the battleships until the bots focus fire someone else but then your damage numbers go way down.

4.       The slow BB curse. In coop the bots all charge forward full blast. When you are in a destroyer or cruiser you charge forward too, both sides exchange torpedoes and the survivors then chase down the battleships. If you are in a slow battleship you go forward as fast as you can but often the game is over before you get close enough to make a difference. One game in the Oklahoma I checked after play and fired precisely three volleys before the game ended. Starting at tier 6 you have faster battleships (Unless you are American) so it isn’t as bad. Worst case is:

5.       Commanding a battleship on the Eyeball Map. You know the one, with an island dead center in the board and two rows of islands like sideways parenthesis surrounding it. Battleships always start in the middle of the board and you have two choices: Either charge ahead and hope you survive the gang bang once you clear the island chains, or bypass the center of the board and don’t do much damage. This is more noticeable on the northern side because the islands on the south funnel battleships to the large gap to the southwest of the center, and funnel cruisers and destroyers from the southeast corner into the center, across the biggest opening in the north with torpedoes galore. On this board the computer plays better tactically than the players because the battleships are more likely to travel as a group.

6.       Magic torpedoes. I don’t know how many times I’ve gunned down a bot ship, then a couple minutes later every torpedo the ship had magically appears dead center on my flank, too late to turn away. It’s as if the computer stuck them there as payback.

7.       The Cross-board potshot. Bot ships often decide to shoot at you at long range, even when there are more lucrative or dangerous targets much closer like in torpedo range. Sometimes I wonder if they are just making sure you don’t feel left out. These shots often hit with preternatural accuracy.

8.       The Aircraft Carrier Chase. After wiping out all the surface ships it is inevitable that you have to go find the enemy aircraft carrier. To do this you are either in a destroyer and have to duck and dodge the endless supply of enemy squadrons while your side’s cruisers snaffle the kill, or you’re in a 20 knot battleship hopelessly out of range to get to the carrier.  The carrier usually will sink right after your first volley leaves the barrels.

(Author’s Warning: The above is a light-hearted attempt to poke fun at the foibles of Coop play, not a serious demand for change.)

Then don't play coop.  

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5 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

DD smokes up, next lowest hp ship is a cruiser.

You want to follow a French or Pan-European DD around in coop.

But they don't. They rush, the enemy, firing their guns. This happens with both bot DDs and players. I lose most of my health while the allied DD gets a free kill and takes almost no damage. I just got off a game where this happened. JB at 15km decides to shoot my Alaska while ignoring the Fletcher player who was at suicide range.

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5 hours ago, SkullCowboy_60 said:

Does that annoy you because it bores you or because you think that's why some folks play it?

I find it boring - you know the outcome before playing 95 to 99.99999999 % of the time.

Edited by CylonRed
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I only hate three things about co-op:

1. Getting perma-spotted by a bot carrier that can't even directly attack me when I'm in a ship with crap AA.

2. When the bots all lemming to one side of Two Brothers and I only notice when I'm halfway up the opposite flank in a 20-knot BB.

3. That bloody psychic torpedo dodging which makes it pointless to ever fire torps outside of potato-chucking range.

Other than that, it's a great way to blow off steam.

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7 hours ago, CylonRed said:

The only thing that annoys me about coop is that it is an Easy button win.

Blah blah, look at me, I'm so entitled I actually get annoyed when other people don't want to play the way I want them to.

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10 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

My top three dislikes: Shatter, Estuary, and Standard Battles.

Anything else and I'm reasonably happy. But those gits are just something to be endured.

Shards is my can't stand category. I like Estuary depending on the ship and mode. Any ship in Domination but Standard in a BB is sometimes a chore. Don't care for Epicenter either.

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1 hour ago, CylonRed said:

I find it boring - you know the outcome before playing 95 to 99.99999999 % of the time.

Fair enough. I disagree with the outcome part as we probably measure that different but that's fine, too.

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58 minutes ago, MushroomBoogaloo said:

Blah blah, look at me, I'm so entitled I actually get annoyed when other people don't want to play the way I want them to.

You do realize that is everyone who has things that annoy then in Coop or random right?   And the annoyance has nothing with the above either - it has nothing to do with other people and how they play coop.

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