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Pillbox_7

From the perspective of a new player

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First off, I fully expect that many will not read this or care what my opinion is for two main reasons:

1. I am a very new player, thus I have no experience with the way the game used to be or why it is worse (or better or the same) now. I also have not played all ship classes extensively either. Never been in a CV, mostly cruisers.

2. I am not a good or even average player, therefore who cares what I think. I do not play hi-tiers yet because I am not good enough and because I read here that people hate new players playing hi-tier. I have done a few T8 matches, that is it. I have never played competitively in any way either. Just co-op, randoms, and operations.

I see lots of people on here with thousands or even tens of thousands of battles saying "New players think this...." OR "New players don't like that..." so maybe this is worth a look even if it is just anecdotal or if you don't care what I have to say for those aforementioned reasons.

The biggest problem with this game from the perspective of this new player is......this forum by a million miles. I think this for the following reasons and to be 100% fair NONE of these are unique to this game and are common to game culture/forums and discussion forums in general. I have seen this a bunch before (as I am sure you all have) with other games/forums and I am only posting this because I really like this game.

1. The discussions are rarely data driven(in a data dense game no less) and do not follow even the basics of what an empirical discussion should be most of the time. Sweeping generalizations about pretty much everything are the norm. "Everyone thinks this..." or "The players all want(or don't want)....x" and "I always die this way and it is unfair." Internet polls(which do not follow any sampling methodology other than whoever shows up to take it) or what some CC thinks are generalized to the entirety of the game playing population. A plethora of cognitive biases and logical fallacies are the norm as well. Too many to go into really. There are so many strawmen thrown up here it is a fire risk, I think. There has been a lot of great game analysis posted on here by people with a lot of apparent knowledge of research methods and statistics. There has been a lot of ignorant comments about it also.

2. Most of the problems with the game identified as such in the forums(and constantly discussed here) seem far worse on the forums than in-game. I cannot possibly address every one of these but a few popular ones:

a.The in-game chat.....can be bad but that is a videogame problem not a wows problem specifically IMO and I have been around way worse games. It is also easy to ignore the chat in wows which is nice. The industry as a whole needs to address this.

b. CVs ruining the game to the point it is not playable anymore. Full disclosure: I never played the game before there were CVs or even before the rework. IMO, they do not make the game impossible to enjoy even at the low tiers I play in. I have been in tons of no or 1 CV games, nobody seems to mention those. I have been in two CV games where I was barely attacked. I have also been spotted and focused right at the beginning by double uptiered CVs and sunk in minutes. This is far from the norm though. There are also ships with solid AA, that do even better around other ships with solid AA. I have shot down lots of planes in randoms before, it is doing something in game unless the conspiracy that CVs have infinite planes is true, which I seriously doubt. If you are in a ship with no AA that can be frustrating and probably is something that could be addressed in some way for new players (Maybe no low tier carriers? or no carriers in battle until you have x number of battles? or something like that, I am not claiming to have an answer). 

However, IRL some ships did not have good AA guns and paid the price. Some ships also did not have 203mm+ guns or torpedoes either and that may have inconvenienced them at some point also. IRL, even the ships with solid AA guns and fire control equipment were at risk of being overwhelmed by planes if solo. The game obviously is not real life and is a game but nothing seems unbalanced or wildly inconsistent with history other than the usual creative licenses they take to make the game playable. Ships are easy to sink with airplanes IRL and the game. You can get one shotted by a BB in real life and the game also. I do not think I would enjoy the game if I was getting obliterated from the air every-time or could not destroy any planes or if I got one shotted by a BB everytime I went out but that is just not happening to me when I play. I am not looking to change any minds but I am able to enjoy the game with CVs. I am not saying there are no issues here at all though either, no game is perfect.

c. Monetization of game. Seems like pretty much any other game on this economic model to me. I do not really see what WG has done that is so egregious compared to other games. Without having a separate discussion about whether this financial model for videogames in general (Free to play, pay to win, micro-transactions, etc.) is a good or bad thing and there are many fair points there, this is a business. It is how a lot of games operate now and businesses of all kinds have been thinking of creative ways to squeeze some extra money out of you for a long time, like impulse items next to the register. People acting like they are owed something for just playing the game a lot seems silly to me. What you are owed is a game you enjoy and if you played it a lot you probably enjoyed it and if you stop enjoying it, stop playing it. I have seen many people post on here that they have done just that, which is what you should do if you do not like the game anymore. Stop giving them money and stop playing the game, just like terminating any other bad business relationship you have ever had. I enjoy the game so I bought a few premium ships and I like them. I may stop liking it someday(subs? anti-ship missiles? actual krakens as a regular part of the game) and that is fine, I will not be pissed I will just move on. I am enjoying it right now though.

Sometimes when you buy a product(a wrench, whatever?) you are happy for a period of time with it and then it breaks and stops working and you are unhappy with it all of a sudden. So you do not buy that same product again. This happens to everyone all the time. If you used to like wows but now you do not then don't buy more wows.

3. The forums are toxic. Too many discussions devolve into thinly veiled name calling and angry rants without evidence among other sources of discourse decline. If I had come to the forums earlier on I may have gotten scared away from investing in the game more by the level of discord over.......a game. I do not have data on what % of active players have visited and/or posted on the forums before like many claim to do on here, but I hope it is a small percentage for the game's sake. The forums are not a good face for this game, IMO. Again, to be fair, this is common in discussion forums of all types covering a variety of topics. I think there is a lot for new players to learn here (I already learned something when I pointed out that I got the idea to not rush into hi-tiers from here) but this is just a depressing place. I enjoy playing the game and then I get depressed coming here to learn more about it, maybe it is just me though.

Again this is all just my opinion based on my perceptions as a new player. I do not claim to speak for any other new players or anyone other than myself. I do not have data to support that my views are the norm nor did I make that claim either. I do not have the experience you all have with the game and I do not know what the game used to be like but this is what it seems like to me now.

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9 minutes ago, Pillbox_7 said:

 

3. The forums are toxic. Too many discussions devolve into thinly veiled name calling and angry rants without evidence among other sources of discourse decline. If I had come to the forums earlier on I may have gotten scared away from investing in the game more by the level of discord over.......a game. I do not have data on what % of active players have visited and/or posted on the forums before like many claim to do on here, but I hope it is a small percentage for the game's sake. The forums are not a good face for this game, IMO. Again, to be fair, this is common in discussion forums of all types covering a variety of topics. I think there is a lot for new players to learn here (I already learned something when I pointed out that I got the idea to not rush into hi-tiers from here) but this is just a depressing place. I enjoy playing the game and then I get depressed coming here to learn more about it, maybe it is just me though.

 

Have you been on other gaming forums?  (I have not, so I am being serious).  How does this game's forum compare to others?

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I think it’s probably not the worst and that is true in the game chat also. I only care and said something because I really enjoy this game. You see more people saying “glhf” at the beginning of games than something terrible. I don’t usually post on forums but I’ve read a lot, sometimes they are well moderated sometimes not. Like I said, I still try to learn things here.

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New players rarely post about their experiences. We can only guess as to the typical new player experience through what we encounter at the lower tiers. 

Lack of data driven discussion is due to the incomplete nature of the publicly available data. We may have average WR and damage totals for each ship, but no context on how these numbers are obtained. For example, Bourgogne and Somers have significantly higher WR than other ships, but no one considers than OP since they can only be obtained though playing ranked and Clan Battles. These players will likely perform better than your average player. 

Other generalizations will always have issues because we can only guess at what others think. 

CVs have created a massive divide in the community, which itself I'd take as a sign of failure of the rework. The competitive community especially dislike the inclusion of CVs in competitive modes. The popular player run King of the Seas tournament disallows CVs.

There are other sections of the forum that's not as toxic as you would believe. 

 

 

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I would have to agree with Pillbox.  I had considered playing WoT when it first came out, but after checking their forum and many YouTube videos, decided not to pursue it.  I joined WoW this summer during the "Lockdown", and yeah, I am what you guys refer to as a whale.  I'm 62 years old, retired Navy and just love ships.  Basically debt free and single and I spend money on this game (somebody has to) as I have favorite ships like everyone else.  I got very lucky in the Black Friday Containers, I bought the 25 container package and got all 4 ships and over 200k free xp. I purchased doubloons to get the Alaska B which I thought was a good deal since it saved me about 15 dollars.  I have less than 500 battles so far, but I usually play tier 6,7,8 the most.  I think the biggest negative I see from the community is the fact that they have been playing so long, they forgot about when they first started out.  My mom always said don't forget where you came from.  I have been hesitant at posting anything on this forum because of my lack of experience in this game, but I do enjoy playing and make my share of mistakes.  It's called a learning curve I believe.  I don't know, would you rather play with good and bad players or not at all.  I think that is the question that everyone needs to ask themselves.   Someone has to buy stuff to keep the game going, new players have to learn, I just joined a clan and if ALL I do is contribute oil to their cause, does that make me a worthless Newbie??  But yeah, I'm still learning, I'm still enjoying the game, and I'm supporting it with my money.  If you disagree with what I do with my own money, that's on you and not me.  I live in Las Vegas and I'd rather put my money into this game than put it in theirs because the ships I buy today will still be there when I come back to play tomorrow.  That's value to me and a way to show my appreciation for the people that spend countless hours to put them together and make them playable.  I only wish they were able to do this 40 years ago.  But, yeah, forums can be pretty toxic at times and I have been on several gun related forums and they are the same.  I doubt I will be posting on this one very much except to ask questions about things I don't understand.  That' just my 2 cents.  Take it for what it's worth.

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5 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

CVs have created a massive divide in the community, which itself I'd take as a sign of failure of the rework.

Well written post, OP.  I appreciate that your essay includes mention of discussions being data-driven.  I highlighted the above selection as an example for your review, in that I'm not quite sure how "massive" the aforementioned "divide" is.  The Forum often offers up such comments, notwithstanding the continuing development of the game.  

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7 minutes ago, bfree_gmm1 said:

Take it for what it's worth.

I appreciate your perspective.  Congrats on your retirement, and enjoy your well-earned recreation!

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1 hour ago, Pillbox_7 said:

First off, I fully expect that many will not read this or care what my opinion is for two main reasons:

1. I am a very new player, thus I have no experience with the way the game used to be or why it is worse (or better or the same) now. I also have not played all ship classes extensively either. Never been in a CV, mostly cruisers.

2. I am not a good or even average player, therefore who cares what I think. I do not play hi-tiers yet because I am not good enough and because I read here that people hate new players playing hi-tier. I have done a few T8 matches, that is it. I have never played competitively in any way either. Just co-op, randoms, and operations.

I see lots of people on here with thousands or even tens of thousands of battles saying "New players think this...." OR "New players don't like that..." so maybe this is worth a look even if it is just anecdotal or if you don't care what I have to say for those aforementioned reasons.

The biggest problem with this game from the perspective of this new player is......this forum by a million miles. I think this for the following reasons and to be 100% fair NONE of these are unique to this game and are common to game culture/forums and discussion forums in general. I have seen this a bunch before (as I am sure you all have) with other games/forums and I am only posting this because I really like this game.

1. The discussions are rarely data driven(in a data dense game no less) and do not follow even the basics of what an empirical discussion should be most of the time. Sweeping generalizations about pretty much everything are the norm. "Everyone thinks this..." or "The players all want(or don't want)....x" and "I always die this way and it is unfair." Internet polls(which do not follow any sampling methodology other than whoever shows up to take it) or what some CC thinks are generalized to the entirety of the game playing population. A plethora of cognitive biases and logical fallacies are the norm as well. Too many to go into really. There are so many strawmen thrown up here it is a fire risk, I think. There has been a lot of great game analysis posted on here by people with a lot of apparent knowledge of research methods and statistics. There has been a lot of ignorant comments about it also.

2. Most of the problems with the game identified as such in the forums(and constantly discussed here) seem far worse on the forums than in-game. I cannot possibly address every one of these but a few popular ones:

a.The in-game chat.....can be bad but that is a videogame problem not a wows problem specifically IMO and I have been around way worse games. It is also easy to ignore the chat in wows which is nice. The industry as a whole needs to address this.

b. CVs ruining the game to the point it is not playable anymore. Full disclosure: I never played the game before there were CVs or even before the rework. IMO, they do not make the game impossible to enjoy even at the low tiers I play in. I have been in tons of no or 1 CV games, nobody seems to mention those. I have been in two CV games where I was barely attacked. I have also been spotted and focused right at the beginning by double uptiered CVs and sunk in minutes. This is far from the norm though. There are also ships with solid AA, that do even better around other ships with solid AA. I have shot down lots of planes in randoms before, it is doing something in game unless the conspiracy that CVs have infinite planes is true, which I seriously doubt. If you are in a ship with no AA that can be frustrating and probably is something that could be addressed in some way for new players (Maybe no low tier carriers? or no carriers in battle until you have x number of battles? or something like that, I am not claiming to have an answer). 

However, IRL some ships did not have good AA guns and paid the price. Some ships also did not have 203mm+ guns or torpedoes either and that may have inconvenienced them at some point also. IRL, even the ships with solid AA guns and fire control equipment were at risk of being overwhelmed by planes if solo. The game obviously is not real life and is a game but nothing seems unbalanced or wildly inconsistent with history other than the usual creative licenses they take to make the game playable. Ships are easy to sink with airplanes IRL and the game. You can get one shotted by a BB in real life and the game also. I do not think I would enjoy the game if I was getting obliterated from the air every-time or could not destroy any planes or if I got one shotted by a BB everytime I went out but that is just not happening to me when I play. I am not looking to change any minds but I am able to enjoy the game with CVs. I am not saying there are no issues here at all though either, no game is perfect.

c. Monetization of game. Seems like pretty much any other game on this economic model to me. I do not really see what WG has done that is so egregious compared to other games. Without having a separate discussion about whether this financial model for videogames in general (Free to play, pay to win, micro-transactions, etc.) is a good or bad thing and there are many fair points there, this is a business. It is how a lot of games operate now and businesses of all kinds have been thinking of creative ways to squeeze some extra money out of you for a long time, like impulse items next to the register. People acting like they are owed something for just playing the game a lot seems silly to me. What you are owed is a game you enjoy and if you played it a lot you probably enjoyed it and if you stop enjoying it, stop playing it. I have seen many people post on here that they have done just that, which is what you should do if you do not like the game anymore. Stop giving them money and stop playing the game, just like terminating any other bad business relationship you have ever had. I enjoy the game so I bought a few premium ships and I like them. I may stop liking it someday(subs? anti-ship missiles? actual krakens as a regular part of the game) and that is fine, I will not be pissed I will just move on. I am enjoying it right now though.

Sometimes when you buy a product(a wrench, whatever?) you are happy for a period of time with it and then it breaks and stops working and you are unhappy with it all of a sudden. So you do not buy that same product again. This happens to everyone all the time. If you used to like wows but now you do not then don't buy more wows.

3. The forums are toxic. Too many discussions devolve into thinly veiled name calling and angry rants without evidence among other sources of discourse decline. If I had come to the forums earlier on I may have gotten scared away from investing in the game more by the level of discord over.......a game. I do not have data on what % of active players have visited and/or posted on the forums before like many claim to do on here, but I hope it is a small percentage for the game's sake. The forums are not a good face for this game, IMO. Again, to be fair, this is common in discussion forums of all types covering a variety of topics. I think there is a lot for new players to learn here (I already learned something when I pointed out that I got the idea to not rush into hi-tiers from here) but this is just a depressing place. I enjoy playing the game and then I get depressed coming here to learn more about it, maybe it is just me though.

Again this is all just my opinion based on my perceptions as a new player. I do not claim to speak for any other new players or anyone other than myself. I do not have data to support that my views are the norm nor did I make that claim either. I do not have the experience you all have with the game and I do not know what the game used to be like but this is what it seems like to me now.

The best thing you can do is a new player is use this forum as a resource for : Little white mouse ship reviews, and codes.  That's it.

The rest of the  "content" on this forum is for the most part a repetitive, useless,  mind numbing , endless drone of complaints/fighting and general juvenile behavior that offers zero benefit to anyone with the IQ above 10.

Stay off social media and the game becomes exponentially more enjoyable.

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Thanks for the reply, but I still work a full time job at one of the casinos.  I play as often as I can.  I would also like to point out that I have this game on Steam as well, but don't spend as much time on that one.  I was just wanting to point out the obvious negative comments to and about new players and also the ones that spend money on the game.  Believe it or not, I actually read a lot of the comments on the videos I watch on YouTube and that, in part, was what turned me off about World of Tanks.

 

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38 minutes ago, Your_SAT_Score said:

Lack of data driven discussion is due to the incomplete nature of the publicly available data.

That’s true and you can only do analysis on what you have and having all the data is better than some of the data, but it doesn’t seem data driven by what is available either.

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31 minutes ago, bfree_gmm1 said:

  I have less than 500 battles so far, but I usually play tier 6,7,8 the most.  I think the biggest negative I see from the community is the fact that they have been playing so long, they forgot about when they first started out.  

We don't forget but you are not realizing that most of us long term players started at Tier 1 and worked our way up slowly, tier 1-4 which i have 1650 battles in.

Tier 5-7 5414 battles in.

Edited by Final8ty
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1 hour ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Have you been on other gaming forums?  (I have not, so I am being serious).  How does this game's forum compare to others?

This forum is pretty mild compared to the ones I've been on where the playerbase is younger. It's quite ironic that forums are moderated so that the younger members will be "protected" from hearing things that their parents' don't want them exposed to when it's the pre-teen and early teen players who oftentimes are the nastiest ones on the forums.

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I like this new player.

He articulates a logical argument better than most 10K game veterans can, probably myself included.

I hope you stay.

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An opinionated player ranting with no constructive feedback, nor any data to back up his opinions.  Welcome aboard, you'll fit right in around here. :cap_like:

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Final8ty, I am not discounting the effort that other players have put in at all.  When I first started playing, I looked at the tech trees and saw 2 ships I wanted to get to as fast as possible, the USS North Carolina (which is where I am from and a ship I have seen in person) and the KMS Bismarck ( which I read every book I could find on it back in the 70's).  That was my whole motivation for EVEN getting in this game to start with.  Did I fast track to get there??  Absolutely.  Do I like playing those 2 ships??  Absolutely.  Will they keep me in this game for a long time??  I think so.  I had the resources to do it and with the help of people on YouTube and a lot of doubloons converting XP, I got there in less than 300 battles.  Lord Mountbatten shows you a way to get to tier ten in about 25 battles.  For me, it was a chance to play ships I have loved since I was in High School.  I don't play CV or DD.  I also bought the Tirpitz and the Prinz Eugen.  The tier 6 Bayern became a favorite, and the Arizona ( which is another one I have personally visited).  That's my wheelhouse, where I want to be and what keeps me happy.  Tier 6,7,8.  That's me in my "happy" zone and probably where I will spend 90 percent of my time.  With my happy ships.  Will I get to 30k battles??  Don't know at this point if I will live long enough for that.  From dust you were formed and to dust you shall return.  One thing I can tell you is that once you reach 50 years old, you have definitely gone over the "hump", the only problem is, you don't know when the hump occurred.  Know what I mean??

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11 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

An opinionated player ranting with no constructive feedback, nor any data to back up his opinions.  Welcome aboard, you'll fit right in around here.

I was pretty upfront that this was just my opinion and I made no claims that even a single other player feels the same way, if I did, then yeah you are are right I should back it up. But I didn’t, so I don’t need too. People don’t need data to back up an opinion unless they want to generalize it to other people, take some action based on it, or demand that other people accept it as reality. I’m not really sure what data I should be citing for subjective perceptions I had anyways(Me, 2020). I said these were all just perceptions of mine. I certainly didn’t cite some internet poll, some CC, or make sweeping generalizations about game mechanics to shut people down like I see on here. My constructive feedback? Be nicer to each other and remember it is just a game.

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26 minutes ago, bfree_gmm1 said:

Final8ty, I am not discounting the effort that other players have put in at all.  When I first started playing, I looked at the tech trees and saw 2 ships I wanted to get to as fast as possible, the USS North Carolina (which is where I am from and a ship I have seen in person) and the KMS Bismarck ( which I read every book I could find on it back in the 70's).  That was my whole motivation for EVEN getting in this game to start with.  Did I fast track to get there??  Absolutely.  Do I like playing those 2 ships??  Absolutely.  Will they keep me in this game for a long time??  I think so.  I had the resources to do it and with the help of people on YouTube and a lot of doubloons converting XP, I got there in less than 300 battles.  Lord Mountbatten shows you a way to get to tier ten in about 25 battles.  For me, it was a chance to play ships I have loved since I was in High School.  I don't play CV or DD.  I also bought the Tirpitz and the Prinz Eugen.  The tier 6 Bayern became a favorite, and the Arizona ( which is another one I have personally visited).  That's my wheelhouse, where I want to be and what keeps me happy.  Tier 6,7,8.  That's me in my "happy" zone and probably where I will spend 90 percent of my time.  With my happy ships.  Will I get to 30k battles??  Don't know at this point if I will live long enough for that.  From dust you were formed and to dust you shall return.  One thing I can tell you is that once you reach 50 years old, you have definitely gone over the "hump", the only problem is, you don't know when the hump occurred.  Know what I mean??

I don't have an issue with you buying what you want for whatever reason but running before you can walk can effect others not just you.

Others in battle are not obliged to be happy with you in battle because you lack experience.

I have been in so many battles where its in our favour to win because of the ships we have but because the experience in not there they die to ships they should of easily beaten.

I have been in battles where we have all caps from the start and i have personally killed the first 3 ships on the red team with no loss on our team and it end up being a loss.

 

It seems that you are doing ok for a new player and you are in a clan so you should not get to much grief.

Edited by Final8ty

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2 hours ago, Pillbox_7 said:

First off, I fully expect that many will not read this or care what my opinion is for two main reasons:

1. I am a very new player, thus I have no experience with the way the game used to be or why it is worse (or better or the same) now. I also have not played all ship classes extensively either. Never been in a CV, mostly cruisers.

2. I am not a good or even average player, therefore who cares what I think. I do not play hi-tiers yet because I am not good enough and because I read here that people hate new players playing hi-tier. I have done a few T8 matches, that is it. I have never played competitively in any way either. Just co-op, randoms, and operations.

I see lots of people on here with thousands or even tens of thousands of battles saying "New players think this...." OR "New players don't like that..." so maybe this is worth a look even if it is just anecdotal or if you don't care what I have to say for those aforementioned reasons.

The biggest problem with this game from the perspective of this new player is......this forum by a million miles. I think this for the following reasons and to be 100% fair NONE of these are unique to this game and are common to game culture/forums and discussion forums in general. I have seen this a bunch before (as I am sure you all have) with other games/forums and I am only posting this because I really like this game.

1. The discussions are rarely data driven(in a data dense game no less) and do not follow even the basics of what an empirical discussion should be most of the time. Sweeping generalizations about pretty much everything are the norm. "Everyone thinks this..." or "The players all want(or don't want)....x" and "I always die this way and it is unfair." Internet polls(which do not follow any sampling methodology other than whoever shows up to take it) or what some CC thinks are generalized to the entirety of the game playing population. A plethora of cognitive biases and logical fallacies are the norm as well. Too many to go into really. There are so many strawmen thrown up here it is a fire risk, I think. There has been a lot of great game analysis posted on here by people with a lot of apparent knowledge of research methods and statistics. There has been a lot of ignorant comments about it also.

2. Most of the problems with the game identified as such in the forums(and constantly discussed here) seem far worse on the forums than in-game. I cannot possibly address every one of these but a few popular ones:

a.The in-game chat.....can be bad but that is a videogame problem not a wows problem specifically IMO and I have been around way worse games. It is also easy to ignore the chat in wows which is nice. The industry as a whole needs to address this.

b. CVs ruining the game to the point it is not playable anymore. Full disclosure: I never played the game before there were CVs or even before the rework. IMO, they do not make the game impossible to enjoy even at the low tiers I play in. I have been in tons of no or 1 CV games, nobody seems to mention those. I have been in two CV games where I was barely attacked. I have also been spotted and focused right at the beginning by double uptiered CVs and sunk in minutes. This is far from the norm though. There are also ships with solid AA, that do even better around other ships with solid AA. I have shot down lots of planes in randoms before, it is doing something in game unless the conspiracy that CVs have infinite planes is true, which I seriously doubt. If you are in a ship with no AA that can be frustrating and probably is something that could be addressed in some way for new players (Maybe no low tier carriers? or no carriers in battle until you have x number of battles? or something like that, I am not claiming to have an answer). 

However, IRL some ships did not have good AA guns and paid the price. Some ships also did not have 203mm+ guns or torpedoes either and that may have inconvenienced them at some point also. IRL, even the ships with solid AA guns and fire control equipment were at risk of being overwhelmed by planes if solo. The game obviously is not real life and is a game but nothing seems unbalanced or wildly inconsistent with history other than the usual creative licenses they take to make the game playable. Ships are easy to sink with airplanes IRL and the game. You can get one shotted by a BB in real life and the game also. I do not think I would enjoy the game if I was getting obliterated from the air every-time or could not destroy any planes or if I got one shotted by a BB everytime I went out but that is just not happening to me when I play. I am not looking to change any minds but I am able to enjoy the game with CVs. I am not saying there are no issues here at all though either, no game is perfect.

c. Monetization of game. Seems like pretty much any other game on this economic model to me. I do not really see what WG has done that is so egregious compared to other games. Without having a separate discussion about whether this financial model for videogames in general (Free to play, pay to win, micro-transactions, etc.) is a good or bad thing and there are many fair points there, this is a business. It is how a lot of games operate now and businesses of all kinds have been thinking of creative ways to squeeze some extra money out of you for a long time, like impulse items next to the register. People acting like they are owed something for just playing the game a lot seems silly to me. What you are owed is a game you enjoy and if you played it a lot you probably enjoyed it and if you stop enjoying it, stop playing it. I have seen many people post on here that they have done just that, which is what you should do if you do not like the game anymore. Stop giving them money and stop playing the game, just like terminating any other bad business relationship you have ever had. I enjoy the game so I bought a few premium ships and I like them. I may stop liking it someday(subs? anti-ship missiles? actual krakens as a regular part of the game) and that is fine, I will not be pissed I will just move on. I am enjoying it right now though.

Sometimes when you buy a product(a wrench, whatever?) you are happy for a period of time with it and then it breaks and stops working and you are unhappy with it all of a sudden. So you do not buy that same product again. This happens to everyone all the time. If you used to like wows but now you do not then don't buy more wows.

3. The forums are toxic. Too many discussions devolve into thinly veiled name calling and angry rants without evidence among other sources of discourse decline. If I had come to the forums earlier on I may have gotten scared away from investing in the game more by the level of discord over.......a game. I do not have data on what % of active players have visited and/or posted on the forums before like many claim to do on here, but I hope it is a small percentage for the game's sake. The forums are not a good face for this game, IMO. Again, to be fair, this is common in discussion forums of all types covering a variety of topics. I think there is a lot for new players to learn here (I already learned something when I pointed out that I got the idea to not rush into hi-tiers from here) but this is just a depressing place. I enjoy playing the game and then I get depressed coming here to learn more about it, maybe it is just me though.

Again this is all just my opinion based on my perceptions as a new player. I do not claim to speak for any other new players or anyone other than myself. I do not have data to support that my views are the norm nor did I make that claim either. I do not have the experience you all have with the game and I do not know what the game used to be like but this is what it seems like to me now.

For most part, my experience has been newer players tend to stay quiet rather than ask for help. Usually they go to YT vids or these forums or (rarely) a clanmate or friend for pointers on playing better. Plenty of folks here willing to help--only time they don't is if you laugh off their tips.

1) Data driven discussion requires a lot more quantitative notes and so on than folks here normally feel is worth the effort. I generally play this to relax, not as another job. For most part, data-driven is in LWM's reviews. I think a basic data-driven, say, for how much damage taken from CVs vs. all other classes over 50 games, gives a better idea what class is most dangerous to you.

2) A) In-game chat can be disabled w/ mods. Certain sensitive players use it. I don't since in-game comms make a lot of WOWS fun times. Also, toxic players that complain are few and far in between, plus easy to blacklist.

B) CVs only seem significant since they are the sniper class, but having played them, they have fewer attacks per match compared to other ships (flight time to target, for example) and take a different mindset to do well in. Reworked CVs are noticeably more popular since more immersive compared to old RTS version, but they also gave up a lot of damage and sky-covering for it.

C) F2P players that pay $$ into game do tend to forget they own pixelated stuff which is one wipe away from extinction. Easy trap as well, self-entitlement, but we pretty much laugh at those players. Unless you're single-handedly worth 10%+ of WG's annual revenue, you've no say in the game's development direction.

3) Not on other forums here, but this is a chill community. Only time things get heated is when CV class brought into the thread since some like me enjoy the class (and know how to force CV captain to work harder to slam us) and a vocal minority in this forum that seem addicted to clamoring for WG to please give them, at minimum, an option for CV-free Random. Occasionally see a ragequitter thread where the OP blows off steam and says he's done.

At any rate, appreciate the thread. Not often we see a new guy walk in and offer a round of beers!

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3 hours ago, Pillbox_7 said:

b. CVs ruining the game to the point it is not playable anymore. Full disclosure: I never played the game before there were CVs or even before the rework. IMO, they do not make the game impossible to enjoy even at the low tiers I play in. I have been in tons of no or 1 CV games, nobody seems to mention those. I have been in two CV games where I was barely attacked. I have also been spotted and focused right at the beginning by double uptiered CVs and sunk in minutes. This is far from the norm though. There are also ships with solid AA, that do even better around other ships with solid AA. I have shot down lots of planes in randoms before, it is doing something in game unless the conspiracy that CVs have infinite planes is true, which I seriously doubt. If you are in a ship with no AA that can be frustrating and probably is something that could be addressed in some way for new players (Maybe no low tier carriers? or no carriers in battle until you have x number of battles? or something like that, I am not claiming to have an answer). 

 

Every person has a different view on what constitutes fun so defining that is...kinda hard .Cv's are a VERY powerful class kinda reflecting how powerful Cv's were IRL. I regard them as a dishonest class, by design, for many reasons..First of all this game is a tactical shooter game.The most basic premise of ANY this kind of game is the "fair chance" game.Meaning that "i can get a piece of you but you also have a chance to get a piece of me".Cv's break that.   Now let me put up some concrete examples how Cv's by mere presence ruin the game.

 . As you perhaps know there are two battle types standard and domination. One of the win conditions of the former is to cap the enemy base. Which is impossible IF there is an enemy carrier. Next, stealthy flanking maneuvers are again impossible to execute. Bold individual action with the potential to overturn a desperate situation, are also impossible to execute, because .the Cv will spot you and you will be plane fodder to him no matter in which ship you are.Those examples just are a few of many to illustrate how much Cv's ruin the game.Because it is a powerful class.

   And let's not forget that if a Cv is present most likely nobody will get spotting ribbons. Which has some economical advantages. Spotting as you may know for other classes come with a risk to their health. Just not for Cv's. ANY class has associated risks to their actions in order to do damage.Just not Cv's. For  every class ship handling is an important part of the gameplay.Just not for Cv's. And....I can go on and on.

Now while I wasn't present pre rework I've seen videos and back then playing Cv's were more of an RTS gameplay than an FPS. .In order to play them well, one had to be VERY good. Which is kinda fair given their  powerful nature.. Also Cv vs Cv action was very much part of the game.

3 hours ago, Pillbox_7 said:

 

However, IRL some ships did not have good AA guns and paid the price. Some ships also did not have 203mm+ guns or torpedoes either and that may have inconvenienced them at some point also. IRL, even the ships with solid AA guns and fire control equipment were at risk of being overwhelmed by planes if solo. The game obviously is not real life and is a game but nothing seems unbalanced or wildly inconsistent with history other than the usual creative licenses they take to make the game playable. Ships are easy to sink with airplanes IRL and the game. You can get one shotted by a BB in real life and the game also. I do not think I would enjoy the game if I was getting obliterated from the air every-time or could not destroy any planes or if I got one shotted by a BB everytime I went out but that is just not happening to me when I play. I am not looking to change any minds but I am able to enjoy the game with CVs. I am not saying there are no issues here at all though either, no game is perfect.

 

If we start talk about RL then...things will be even more out of place. Torpedo bombers could not launch.thei deadly cargo, if specific conditions weren't met. Like altitude and speed.That's why they were so vulnerable, as for example at the.Battle of Midway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

Not to mention the fact that the number one target, for a Cv was the enemy Cv.Which is totally absent from this game.

AA had also a deterrent role, which means that many times  AA could deter enemy planes so they would  drop bombs from a higher altitude, thus making them imprecise..One of the famous examples for that is the defense of  Cowes by the destroyer(!!!) ORP Błyskawica   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Błyskawica_(H34)#Operational_history

In this game, the first strike is always GUARANTEED.And again I can go on and on. So....its best to leave out "historical" or IRL references.

Edited by Bandi73

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35 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

 And let's not forget that if a Cv is present most likely nobody will get spotting ribbons.

I wish I had taken a screenshot of it before I came over here had I known but I literally just did 64k damage, shot down 9 planes, got two spotted ribbons and destroyed two ships including a CV in a duca d'aosta in a win not 10 mins ago. Is this common? Not at all but these are the moments I play the game for.

 

38 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

One of the win conditions of the former is to cap the enemy base. Which is impossible IF there is an enemy carrier.

See what I said in my OP about sweeping statements. One time I detonated a carrier sitting near the enemy base with one salvo and 5 citadels at very close range (I snuck back there, supposedly impossible) and capped the enemy base while dancing around BB and cruiser shells during the countdown from several ships way too far away to do anything about it. It is possible. I have done it, me, and I am a terrible new player with less than 500 random battles. I did this in a yahagi, supposedly a terrible ship. This is not common for me either, but it happened.

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Welcome to the game. Thank you for your excellent and valuable post.  You seem smarter than the average bear. Your expectations seem realistic. You seem pretty well grounded. I'm sure you are already wise to our tiny little forum community. Most of us mean well and if you give us a chance you just might learn a few things from a few of us. It's a unique niche game and most of us are "unique" and "niche" game players so we carry a bit too much passion into certain discussions from time to time. Don't let our squabbles turn you off. Please continue to post your thoughts whenever you think they might be of value to another player.

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25 minutes ago, Pillbox_7 said:

I wish I had taken a screenshot of it before I came over here had I known but I literally just did 64k damage, shot down 9 planes, got two spotted ribbons and destroyed two ships including a CV in a duca d'aosta in a win not 10 mins ago. Is this common? Not at all but these are the moments I play the game for.

 

Congrats for a good game ..But let me guess, one of the ribbons was the Cv right?

 

25 minutes ago, Pillbox_7 said:

See what I said in my OP about sweeping statements. One time I detonated a carrier sitting near the enemy base with one salvo and 5 citadels at very close range (I snuck back there, supposedly impossible) and capped the enemy base while dancing around BB and cruiser shells during the countdown from several ships way too far away to do anything about it. It is possible. I have done it, me, and I am a terrible new player with less than 500 random battles. I did this in a yahagi, supposedly a terrible ship. This is not common for me either, but it happened.

I see:) Was the Cv alive when you capped?. I kinda already know the answer to that :), but....

For the rest ,that's what i like to do also. I specced my Neptune with full( double) rudder shift so i can wiggle my way out of trouble. Or in.:) I like to troll BB's by running towards them, parking in front of them, smoke up and give them a  nice rain of shells. Well, obviously depending on the situation, but generally that's how I play the RN Cl line. 

 

Edited by Bandi73

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19 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

Welcome to the game. Thank you for your excellent and valuable post.  You seem smarter than the average bear. Your expectations seem realistic. You seem pretty well grounded. I'm sure you are already wise to our tiny little forum community. Most of us mean well and if you give us a chance you just might learn a few things from a few of us. It's a unique niche game and most of us are "unique" and "niche" game players so we carry a bit too much passion into certain discussions from time to time. Don't let our squabbles turn you off. Please continue to post your thoughts whenever you think they might be of value to another player.

Nicely said.

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17 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Congrats for a good game ..But let me guess, one of the ribbons was the Cv right?

Actually no it was two DDs right in the beginning!

18 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

I see:) Was the Cv alive when you capped?. I kinda already know the answer to that :), but....

IIRC it had pretty full health but not many planes left, I got a squadron of planes but torps and bombs are actually dodgable in the yahagi sometimes. What happened to all those other planes though? Deplaned by cruisers, BBs, CVs etc. which people act as if that is impossible. It doesn't take much to make a carrier vanish at close range with even the most pathetic CL like the yahagi. Speaking of which I really like that ship despite what reviews say. Your numbers depend on connecting with torps, but oh man when you do..... and you get vaporized from time to time but it is sneaky, can run down and smash a destroyer or finish someone off well enough, and has enough AA, speed, and maneuverability to at least weather a plane attack. It is a lot of fun. Fun is not always best though.

I have to say I expected to receive a lot more flak for my OP, this has been polite and constructive. I appreciate it. Thanks for bearing with me.

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